Actually I didn't know there was such a thing as a veneer trimmer. I use a sharp knife - I have learned the hard way that you have to take into account the angle of the grain to avoid splitting the veneer while trimming edges.
Alex
A quick measurement with REW from when the first speaker was ready for testing. The second is very similar (As expected), I'm still playing around with sub integration and plan to post more measurements when I'm happy.
These things play way deeper than I expected "in room"
These things play way deeper than I expected "in room"
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A sharp razor blade is better than a knife, because it's a lot thinner and is less likely to split the veneer. Most of the veneer trimmers are nothing more than a handle with a secure way to hold the razor blade.
Here is a Milescraft trimmer for only $6.50.
LaminateTrimmer - Milescraft
I was pleased to see another Troels builder ( struggling with posting here so if there are 3 versions of this sorry, closing the "view attachments" window seems to close the post....probably my finger trouble)
Anyway, thought you might be interested i built Troels Fusion BAD with Hypex 251, oiled walnut cabinets and a few rounded corners, otherwise like Troels design.
I only realised that everyone means it when they say the room is half the project, i have done some treatment now, not sure what the 8k dip is, i attached a sweep to compare with yours,
I tend to plane the edge of the veneer as i find it avoids the splitting problem but always with the grain running out not in.
Interesting times when on lockdown!
Anyway, thought you might be interested i built Troels Fusion BAD with Hypex 251, oiled walnut cabinets and a few rounded corners, otherwise like Troels design.
I only realised that everyone means it when they say the room is half the project, i have done some treatment now, not sure what the 8k dip is, i attached a sweep to compare with yours,
I tend to plane the edge of the veneer as i find it avoids the splitting problem but always with the grain running out not in.
Interesting times when on lockdown!
Attachments
The only thing about my measurements that I find curious is that dip between 2 to 3 kHz. It isn’t present on Troels’ measurements and it seems to be equal on both of my speakers when I measured them. It sort of relaxes the presentation and is quite easy to eq out. Perhaps some more break in time will change it.
Without giving it due thought, I'd be wanting to cut 600-1500 instead.
Is it possible that Troels had included diffraction in his design that is easily reapportioned if you don't measure exactly the same?
Is it possible that Troels had included diffraction in his design that is easily reapportioned if you don't measure exactly the same?
If he did he doesn’t mention it. My build uses the same width and tweeter-from-top distance as the original. I did put a very small radius on the front corners to halt chipping but only 3/8”
I guess I was implying that if you strive to obtain an indicatively similar measurement to Troels, it could help to clarify the issue. The way you measure can potentially make at least this kind of difference.
I see. Thanks for circling back. I’m going to repeat my measurements in a week or so after things have had time to settle in. I’ll post them when done.
Thanks for the response about the speakers, i like them!
more importantly than the looks, they do sound wonderful, sometimes I just sit there smiling listening to things, also there are now recordings that are great that before were mediocre and vice versa. Everyone who has heard them comments on the reality of the impression of musicians being outside the boxes.
A few points, i also am after improving the 600-1500 rise, it is discernible as a bit of harsh/brashness in a quite important mid range area, female vocals, trumpet, piano, i have calculated a Helmholtz resonator, which i will build in front of my LM absorbers so that the same area does both mid and bass, my calc. looks as attached.
I seek out ideas on the web, i am not an expert but always like reading about what Artnovion do, and their background papers as well.
My tweeter is the fabric dome not Be, my experience certainly doesn't lead me to conclude i could tell the difference, unless perhaps side by side.
One thing i have learnt is to look for consistent trends, move your mic from the position of one ear to the other, move it one person across the sofa, i found that the rise seen in my curves is greatly affected by this and floor first reflections, so looking at the lateral mode frequencies and floor first reflection, i will attend to those as soon as i am allowed to the shops to buy material!
more importantly than the looks, they do sound wonderful, sometimes I just sit there smiling listening to things, also there are now recordings that are great that before were mediocre and vice versa. Everyone who has heard them comments on the reality of the impression of musicians being outside the boxes.
A few points, i also am after improving the 600-1500 rise, it is discernible as a bit of harsh/brashness in a quite important mid range area, female vocals, trumpet, piano, i have calculated a Helmholtz resonator, which i will build in front of my LM absorbers so that the same area does both mid and bass, my calc. looks as attached.
I seek out ideas on the web, i am not an expert but always like reading about what Artnovion do, and their background papers as well.
My tweeter is the fabric dome not Be, my experience certainly doesn't lead me to conclude i could tell the difference, unless perhaps side by side.
One thing i have learnt is to look for consistent trends, move your mic from the position of one ear to the other, move it one person across the sofa, i found that the rise seen in my curves is greatly affected by this and floor first reflections, so looking at the lateral mode frequencies and floor first reflection, i will attend to those as soon as i am allowed to the shops to buy material!
Attachments
Yes, those are beautifully finished speakers. Just out of interest, do you have any photos from the front without the covers on?
Alex
After some more mileage and a little tweaking on sub integration here's a new measurement. The MTM by itself gets nearly as deep as it does with the sub. This file is with a 65Hz 24bd/oct LR crossover (done digitally). This is left side only. It sounds good and doesn't display the 2-3khz dip mentioned above.
That's interesting to see, overall quite a flat FR, but I can get really quite confused with REW and often allow myself to conclude something, probably because i want to, rather than because its real, there are quite big peaks and nulls in the bass area, my guess is that with the mic in a slightly different position it can change the plot a lot, so until your room treatment can "cope with" or negate that you are still going to hear it, emphasised and nulled notes. i often play test tones, constant tones and move round the room and hear the peaks and nulls as well as sweeping through the range and sitting still, pick one of the peaks or nulls shown and play that tone and see what happens, then what to do about it is a room question, as Troels says, the room is half the project, and that's what i am working on now, my conclusion is that his speakers designs are likely exceedingly good and my room is not!
Have you looked at the waterfall for this, maybe someone with expertise could advise what they think of that, it would be educational for me.
Here we are Alex, with the current lock down they might get a new coat of oil as well! - i just added the taper top to bottom on the grille and rounded box corners, but baffle is as Troels designed.
BTW, i am an enthusiastic amateur and find i can enjoy projects and results where hard work rather than expertise makes the difference, i used a really great service to cut the parts, having worked out that i could not transport the big sheets myself i used a company called cut list to do all the main cutting for the cabinets, that way you pay a little more for the wood but get manageable sizes, cut square to close tolerance, they aren't far from you either, Oxford way.
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Very nice. My latest project started as 600x 1200 sheets of ply and MDF, which just fit in the back of the Golf, so I was able to cut them myself. I just had a look at CutList - they are based in Chinnor, which is in one of my favourite parts of the country (and not far from where I grew up). We had a fine day a few years ago spotting Red Kites over Christmas Common.
I have used oil and wax finish until recently, but I'm going to try spray satin lacquer on my MUN-17s, once I've finished veneering and painted the baffle.
Are you not tempted to let Troels post your photos on his Builders page?
Alex
It ought to be done. Even I have my own page now and I barely sanded the boxes 😀
SBA 16 MTM Sealed Variation Build
I have a small project studio I put together here and built about a dozen bass traps of various types and densities. I am quite comfortable with the futility of seeking a flat response in the low end. I got a 10’ sq room from +/-15 to about +/-8 and declared success. I won’t be treating the living room. The REW sweeps were mostly about making sure I built the MTMs right.
I didn't veneer the fronts although i think it looks great because i leave the grilles on and thought my radiused edges on the grille were pretty high WAF, to use Troels dictionary, actually they are in my office/den so that matters less, yes, loads of red kites up there, on the road access to the farm where they are located i sat and ate lunch watching them, also we are just on the west edge of the new forest so each day i exercise walking up the valley side to the forest and back, and there are a few down here now. The oiled black MDF, looks really good to me alongside the walnut, but a veneered front looks classy!
I will post for Troels but keep wanting to get some lights and a better picture or so!
So, having some spare time, i obviously have all the bits for my Fusions, and i read the pages, could it work that i use exactly those same parts on an open baffle? - that question may be idle curiosity, but you never know....it might just be something to do....
It sounds like you've made a few, how did you get to MUN 17, are they running yet?