These drivers are on the pricy side for sure but they are still within the upper range of acceptable cost for SB's top of the line range. You are getting great drivers for your money here so it isn't wasted as long as you know how to put them in a proper box and play some music through them. That being said the price tag is still way south of that range of stupid expensive that only very rich trust fund babies could justify. 
These are great drivers for experienced speaker builders that have built numerous speakers in the past but I would not recommend these drivers to the first time builder though. They are just a little to expensive and without the proper execution you are just wasting a great set of drivers.
So, I took the plunge on these and picked up an 8 ohm pair of the tweeters and the 4 ohm 6.5 mid woofers and realized after some testing that I was going to need a woofer and the 6.5 was going to be a dedicated midrange. I've been scrubbing the inter webs for an acceptable candidate using manufacturers supplied data to model a driver that plays well together with the Textream's and my first choice is a pair of 8" silver flutes paper and wool cone woofer that I just received from Maddie Sound.
My first impressions are pretty good. I've got my impedance graphs and Thiel/Small parameters all figured out and now I just need to decide what the best box design is for the three drivers and build my first proto type box and get to measuring. I'm leaning towards a three way bass reflex setup that will be used in a quasi near field configuration with a subwoofer and maybe later on as stand mounted front stereo pair with two sub woofers.
If I decide the Silver Flutes aren't going to make it into the final design My next choice is a toss up between the Dayton Audio Esoteric and their Reference 8" woofers. The silver Flutes have a similar sensitivity rating as the Textreams so they should play together nicely in that respect I'm just hoping there isn't some mismatch in tonality between the two drivers or three drivers actually. We shall find out here soon enough. Once I have my general direction figured out I will start a build thread. I've never done that before so it should be interesting, for me at least.
These are great drivers for experienced speaker builders that have built numerous speakers in the past but I would not recommend these drivers to the first time builder though. They are just a little to expensive and without the proper execution you are just wasting a great set of drivers.
So, I took the plunge on these and picked up an 8 ohm pair of the tweeters and the 4 ohm 6.5 mid woofers and realized after some testing that I was going to need a woofer and the 6.5 was going to be a dedicated midrange. I've been scrubbing the inter webs for an acceptable candidate using manufacturers supplied data to model a driver that plays well together with the Textream's and my first choice is a pair of 8" silver flutes paper and wool cone woofer that I just received from Maddie Sound.
My first impressions are pretty good. I've got my impedance graphs and Thiel/Small parameters all figured out and now I just need to decide what the best box design is for the three drivers and build my first proto type box and get to measuring. I'm leaning towards a three way bass reflex setup that will be used in a quasi near field configuration with a subwoofer and maybe later on as stand mounted front stereo pair with two sub woofers.
If I decide the Silver Flutes aren't going to make it into the final design My next choice is a toss up between the Dayton Audio Esoteric and their Reference 8" woofers. The silver Flutes have a similar sensitivity rating as the Textreams so they should play together nicely in that respect I'm just hoping there isn't some mismatch in tonality between the two drivers or three drivers actually. We shall find out here soon enough. Once I have my general direction figured out I will start a build thread. I've never done that before so it should be interesting, for me at least.
But the DIP could not be heard, so the flat here is not a noticable progress, and the aluminium line seems in par with te=he TX line. Those whom testimonied said the TX has a slight more natural sound, but not a revolution... you certainly pay for an outsourced material and a little marketing brandnew material effect. I'm not sure it's a revelation over good Revelator and Wavecore... But few have listened to them all ! So who knows ?
The thing is, at these prices, which the TX demand, the "improvements" aren't good enough. As I see it, you either go with the paper version OR switch brand entirely and the brand to switch to is Purifi. The MW16TX or P has no chance against the Purifi PTT6,5.
I also know there is a Purifi 5" woofer and midrange in the pipeline, so my next loudspeaker will be modeled for Purifi mid & woofers.
I also know there is a Purifi 5" woofer and midrange in the pipeline, so my next loudspeaker will be modeled for Purifi mid & woofers.
Finally when it comes to get the best mid-woofer (circa 150hz to 2000hz) monney can get, I wonder if the winner is not in that short list :
- the famous Acuton C090 something
- the Purifi
- the ER audio ESL little kit.
I find very odd not to find a sandwich cone in the list. Now all those lists are made according measurements but a good sound is not always about ONLY the distortion in a driver choice.
The mid dome as the Volts or other good 3" mid can not goes low. And most of people don't want to deal with tweeter filters as high as 3000 to 4000 hz.
Ok one would say it's all about the filter and the layout, but one has to make a choice.
- the famous Acuton C090 something
- the Purifi
- the ER audio ESL little kit.
I find very odd not to find a sandwich cone in the list. Now all those lists are made according measurements but a good sound is not always about ONLY the distortion in a driver choice.
The mid dome as the Volts or other good 3" mid can not goes low. And most of people don't want to deal with tweeter filters as high as 3000 to 4000 hz.
Ok one would say it's all about the filter and the layout, but one has to make a choice.
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3-4 octaves is still the general rule, but with drivers that are exceptional, you can extend that to maybe 5 octaves. Then there is the matter of producing complex filters, aka controlling unwanted peaks.
In the end, the better the driver is to control its own motion, the better it is for the engineer and finally, the consumer who has to listen to the driver/loudspeaker.
The cabinet is its own topic which I'm not going to go into simply because there are way too many who "Dhu, you only need a bass port enclosure" people around, which does not make them an engineer, just a copier.
Overall, there are a handful, and I mean a handful drivers, from tweeter to subwoofer, that I would bother with and while Accuton make some nice drivers (limited), it is by no means THE manufacturer to jump on.
BlieSMa, SB Acoustics, Wavecor, ScanSpeak, Pearless and some SEAS and you can do a lot. The unfortunate is that with many legacy manufacturers, they sometimes have a tendency to overrate their value when a new
product / product series are being developed and launched. Both SEAS, ScanSpeak and SB Acoustics has done this as of lately. It's not that they are bad products, its just that they aren't that good.
And I've personally spoken to a driver engineer who agrees with that statement, who develops fabulous drivers himself. The cabinet is also a very VERY important part of the overall performance, but we will always have
"garbage in equals garbage out".
So while I do appreciate what SB Acoustics did with the TX material, the value preposition is simply not there, and with that said, I'm out.. but good luck in the future
In the end, the better the driver is to control its own motion, the better it is for the engineer and finally, the consumer who has to listen to the driver/loudspeaker.
The cabinet is its own topic which I'm not going to go into simply because there are way too many who "Dhu, you only need a bass port enclosure" people around, which does not make them an engineer, just a copier.
Overall, there are a handful, and I mean a handful drivers, from tweeter to subwoofer, that I would bother with and while Accuton make some nice drivers (limited), it is by no means THE manufacturer to jump on.
BlieSMa, SB Acoustics, Wavecor, ScanSpeak, Pearless and some SEAS and you can do a lot. The unfortunate is that with many legacy manufacturers, they sometimes have a tendency to overrate their value when a new
product / product series are being developed and launched. Both SEAS, ScanSpeak and SB Acoustics has done this as of lately. It's not that they are bad products, its just that they aren't that good.
And I've personally spoken to a driver engineer who agrees with that statement, who develops fabulous drivers himself. The cabinet is also a very VERY important part of the overall performance, but we will always have
"garbage in equals garbage out".
So while I do appreciate what SB Acoustics did with the TX material, the value preposition is simply not there, and with that said, I'm out.. but good luck in the future
That is a value judgment. Of course we always expect more performance as the cost goes up. We all have a different point where the increase in cost does not match the increase in performance.
So the improvements were not good enough for you... fair enough. But they were more than good enough for me.
j.
The improvements aren't only price related, they are related to what else exist on the market. Just like we more than likely will select a relatively modern driver and not something made
in the 70's and 80's, so will we judge drivers made today against one another.
Time is of no relevance and to make things more even, the Purifi existed before the TX version, so, there was a conscious choice to go for them over an objectively better driver.
And this is how things are, some like me makes a comment and someone else will defend their choices and position. I used to be more restrained to make "harsh" comments in the past, but time is of essence,
everyone is opinionated and audio is diversifying and here we are.
The point, always, is. If you are happy with your choice, then that is all that matters and I can go f*** off.. .
in the 70's and 80's, so will we judge drivers made today against one another.
Time is of no relevance and to make things more even, the Purifi existed before the TX version, so, there was a conscious choice to go for them over an objectively better driver.
And this is how things are, some like me makes a comment and someone else will defend their choices and position. I used to be more restrained to make "harsh" comments in the past, but time is of essence,
everyone is opinionated and audio is diversifying and here we are.
The point, always, is. If you are happy with your choice, then that is all that matters and I can go f*** off.. .
I play with the RS125.... Maybe the Seas Excell, the SB Textreme or the Purifi - will make me happier.... who knows? When we also look at the cost of materials, complexity of construction and the acoustical end result. Then what is really the value of the different drivers?
The Dayton is dirt cheap - IMO. How can I be convinced that - lets say - the Seas is a better choice sound wise? Buy and evaluate seems to be the only option, since it's DIY and I need to make my own filters and judge in the combo with my choice of tweeter and woofer too.
I chose the Seas DXT for it's small easy to work with waveguide. Many people claim that directivity is a wash above 7-8kHz anyway... so why bother... when the makers of - lets say Magico - work fine without any type of waveguide. It's all very confusing at times Think that I'll just go back to fiddeling with my thoughts on finding better mid-woofers
The Dayton is dirt cheap - IMO. How can I be convinced that - lets say - the Seas is a better choice sound wise? Buy and evaluate seems to be the only option, since it's DIY and I need to make my own filters and judge in the combo with my choice of tweeter and woofer too.
I chose the Seas DXT for it's small easy to work with waveguide. Many people claim that directivity is a wash above 7-8kHz anyway... so why bother... when the makers of - lets say Magico - work fine without any type of waveguide. It's all very confusing at times
Think that I'll just go back to fiddeling with my thoughts on finding better mid-woofers
I'm gona drop a comment here which you may take into account.Lets say Magico - work fine without any type of waveguide. It's all very confusing at times
At the XO, ideally, the tweeter and midrange is of the same radiating size such that the dispersion pattern are the same or very similar. If they are not the same, you will have a dispersion mismatch and this is often heard as a thin, less bodied tweeter.
Two, most waveguides being offered and used is horn legacy, that is to say, they produce a compression which amplifies the output such that it can be crossed lower, but the downside is that the now higher dB, say 5-6dB, has to be lowered to match the
midrange level and finally, you have a natural roll-off that cuts out desirable frequency's in the higher range. Ideally, the tweeter is allowed to run freely up to 30-40kHz if it can handle that.
In a home, there is very few scenarios that require a horn since they are designed to throw sound tens of meters with relatively low energy input, so, my humble opinion is that horns in a home is a missus of technology. This then dictates a simpler designed
waveguide. "All horns are waveguides, but not all waveguides are horns"
Then we have CTC - voicecoil-to-voicecoil distance: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/317632-speaker-driver-measurements-126.html#post6603436
Hope that helps
I'm gona drop a comment here which you may take into account.
At the XO, ideally, the tweeter and midrange is of the same radiating size such that the dispersion pattern are the same or very similar.Hope that helps
And indeed that is what I think I achieved with the RS125 and the DXT - being close to each other's size, closely placed (CTC) and crossed at 2kHz. Both my listening impression and the measurements seem to agree - which is very pleasing to both ears and brain
I'm trying to make a great 3 way - so I don't need a larger midrange, that tries to play bass, when I want real woofers and multiple subwoofers too (already have).
I looked towards the Textreme for maybe a higher Qms value and better motor than the Dayton's - since this is the only real spec's that might convince me to open my wallet - so far. Maybe the Textreme covers some "magical" middle ground between metal and paper/plastic drivers - where we both have light and stiff cones(pistonic), but also still some kind of controlled breakup/damping.
But thank you
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I just need them to roll off around 70-80hz, since I want them to blend with my subwoofers - which I really like, because they give me a way more physical foundation in the music, that I do not hear in "smaller" driver like 8".
I want to run them to 500hz... to relieve my smaller midrange.
Will the smaller volume for the two 8" Dayton's, make them sound worse... higher Q? Is a Q of 0,65 a bit tighter in the bass around 90 to 300 hz - than Q=0,7?
Nope... I just put them in 60 liter closed box (two drivers) and play them from 80 to 500hz. Seems to work fine. But maybe the 9,5" Satori is snappier.
What I always listen for, is this piece of music:
Eagles-Hotel California-Live-Hell Freezes Over 1994 - YouTube
33 - 53 seconds in - your clearly hear the drum has two types of sound. One is "dry" with just the "smack" - the next is a bit more boomy and "hangs" for a short while. It shifts between the "dry"(short) and longer boomy smack. To my experience, a stereo needs to have a distinct ability to play this clearly
And then we have this little thing:
5″ SATORI MW13TX-4 / TeXtreme | SB Acoustics
Double the Qms compared to Dayton RS125... does that help anything? Cause the dispersion looks almost as good. The Dayton only shows out to 45 degrees, where SB goes to 60.
5″ SATORI MW13TX-4 / TeXtreme | SB Acoustics
Double the Qms compared to Dayton RS125... does that help anything? Cause the dispersion looks almost as good. The Dayton only shows out to 45 degrees, where SB goes to 60.
I chose a close volume : 29 liters for my standalone one, sealed tooNope... I just put them in 60 liter closed box (two drivers) and play them from 80 to 500hz. Seems to work fine. But maybe the 9,5" Satori is snappier.
What I always listen for, is this piece of music:
Eagles-Hotel California-Live-Hell Freezes Over 1994 - YouTube
33 - 53 seconds in - your clearly hear the drum has two types of sound. One is "dry" with just the "smack" - the next is a bit more boomy and "hangs" for a short while. It shifts between the "dry"(short) and longer boomy smack. To my experience, a stereo needs to have a distinct ability to play this clearly
!Textreme might do something speciel.... maybe it's mostly in the midrange, maybe it's an overall improvement. Maybe - since I use multi-subs - I could use "just" two 6" rather than two 8" for mid-woofer duty. Then being able to use Textreme rather than SBNBAC, CAC or Dayton RS225 Alu.... hmmm... decisions
