There are other kits somewhat similar to the hivi with known designers, top value drivers, and considerable discussion by people who know what they are doing. There are too many examples of kits released by driver companies where they missed the mark. I would never do a kit if I didn’t know who the designer was and their reputation.
If you like that form factor (of the hivi kit) then look at Paul k’s designs. A three way of that sort does seem a bit tall for summing in near field but maybe it’s fine. There is one design of his from a few years back using Dayton drivers that would be high value.
If it were me, I’d look for a small two way with Sb acoustic drivers or some other high value drivers, and then solicit help for designing a sub. You should read Jeff bagby’s article on adding a woofer to the kairos and continuum.
If your not familiar with who’s who, I’ve always like the kit offerings at meniscus. Great designers are represented there. . I noticed one with the Sb acoustics ceramic woofer and a hivi ribbon.
There is also Zaphs small speaker at Madisound which particularly stood out to me because he has options for making them work as near field or further from a wall. Good discussion of near field issues on his site. There might be a flat pack too. I don’t recall.
Regarding your limited construction facilities, what I used to do when I had no tools or space is go to Home Depot and get mdf shelving or have them rip plywood to the baffle width, then use a circular saw at home to cut the lengths. You can modify the height to get the volume you need. Just maintain the baffle width. A palm router isn’t too pricey and will allow you to counter sink. I love my makita. I understand why flat packs are popular but there is still a lot to do. Glue up is super critical. I just never found getting the cuts made to be the biggest impediment so I’d never pick a kit based the availability of a flat pack. I also like to overbuild cabinets.
If you like that form factor (of the hivi kit) then look at Paul k’s designs. A three way of that sort does seem a bit tall for summing in near field but maybe it’s fine. There is one design of his from a few years back using Dayton drivers that would be high value.
If it were me, I’d look for a small two way with Sb acoustic drivers or some other high value drivers, and then solicit help for designing a sub. You should read Jeff bagby’s article on adding a woofer to the kairos and continuum.
If your not familiar with who’s who, I’ve always like the kit offerings at meniscus. Great designers are represented there. . I noticed one with the Sb acoustics ceramic woofer and a hivi ribbon.
There is also Zaphs small speaker at Madisound which particularly stood out to me because he has options for making them work as near field or further from a wall. Good discussion of near field issues on his site. There might be a flat pack too. I don’t recall.
Regarding your limited construction facilities, what I used to do when I had no tools or space is go to Home Depot and get mdf shelving or have them rip plywood to the baffle width, then use a circular saw at home to cut the lengths. You can modify the height to get the volume you need. Just maintain the baffle width. A palm router isn’t too pricey and will allow you to counter sink. I love my makita. I understand why flat packs are popular but there is still a lot to do. Glue up is super critical. I just never found getting the cuts made to be the biggest impediment so I’d never pick a kit based the availability of a flat pack. I also like to overbuild cabinets.
I think you are referring to the Keramiskas kit - Agreed, nice drivers! Once I specc'd out the options, it came to $405.98 for the bundle, minus enclosure, which I would need to source from elsewhere. I'm guessing that would be an additional couple of hundred. Hmm, over my budget. I'm already getting flak in this household for spending so much on the amp and room treatment. You know the drill with hobbies like this: "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" LOL!
Ah right, the Zaph - Another great suggestion. Love those woofers. I like the MTM configuration as well. After optioning those, the parts come to $399.90. Again, right at the limit of my budget even before an enclosure build.
Yes, I thought of this. The building I live in is quad plex. So 4 units sharing two single car garages. The landlord says no cars allowed in them. They are for laundry facilities only. There is plenty of space for doing some minor cabinet finishing and glueing, but likely no more than that. I'd be pushing it given the restricted nature of the use of the garage space. I also don't own a saw or router and cannot add that to the budget given how much $$ i've already dropped on this project, LOL!
It's looking like the Swan kit will be the choice for now. It's all inclusive for the price. Given my current situation, it fits within budget. It's cost is actually less than the amount for speakers I had initially set, but judging by the heat i'm getting from my significant other for dropping nearly a grand on this project already, I need to minimize any further expenses, at least until things calm down a bit 😱 I doubt this will be the last pair of speakers I build. Once I move, I will have more space (and freedom) to expand my HiFi ambitions.
Excited for my first speaker kit build! 😛
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I had them on the list but removed them. I saw a neat trick with assembling MDF cabinets with 45° angle cuts. Clamping them can be problematic.
The trick is to use painters (masking) tape to clamp them. Since the entire cabinet can be assembled in one go. The internal bracing helps keep all the sides from skewing when you glue them together. All the mdf boards are simply attached with the tape from the outside, laid flat, glued from the inside, then fixed in place. Then some additional tape is applied to keep them tightly fixed as the glue dries.
I first saw this method used here. Then it was mentioned by some that have built this same kit that it was easier then trying to clamp them. Here is a better explanation of the method.
This works out well for me as it saves me about $50 in clamps...
That's good to hear, I was starting to worry you might not have budgeted for clamps 😀
Problem solved though!
The glue joints might not be quite as strong as with clamping, but it should be fine. Not like speakers are usually load-bearing 🙂
Problem solved though!
The glue joints might not be quite as strong as with clamping, but it should be fine. Not like speakers are usually load-bearing 🙂
Before I looked at the kit instructions it seemed that you were going to modify square-cut edges and I was gonna suggest you consider making these lock mitre joints. They're strong.
The tape clamp idea is intriguing but clamps would still seem advisable to get the glue film thin. I believe that makes a difference. Perhaps get some ratchet strap clamps? Make the "tube" first and then glue on the ends. Just thinking out loud.
The tape clamp idea is intriguing but clamps would still seem advisable to get the glue film thin. I believe that makes a difference. Perhaps get some ratchet strap clamps? Make the "tube" first and then glue on the ends. Just thinking out loud.
Good suggestion! In addition to the tape clamping, I think ratchet strap clamps would be better suited (as opposed to bar clamps) to this type of 45° angle cut enclosure to give added pressure. 1 or 2 would do the trick.
They are actually cheaper as well. Do you know how much clamping pressure is needed on these joints?
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I don't know about optimal pressures.
You don't want them so tight that a joint slips.
You might locate a strap to coincide with the internal brace. You could apply a fair bit of pressure there safely because of the dados. And a strap on either side with similar pressure would then not slip or move. Just a thought. (I do hope you regale us with progress reports and photos!)
You don't want them so tight that a joint slips.
You might locate a strap to coincide with the internal brace. You could apply a fair bit of pressure there safely because of the dados. And a strap on either side with similar pressure would then not slip or move. Just a thought. (I do hope you regale us with progress reports and photos!)
Hmm yeah 3 straps would be better. Will definitely post progress pics! The least I can do after annoying the community with all my questions and out loud thinking, LOL!
That reminds me. A big huge thank you to all who have commented in this thread. The collective knowledge here is very valuable!
Just one more thing...
I was just about to close the window on the assembly manual when the crossover caught my eye.
Conventional wisdom suggests that adjacent inductor orientation is important: if one coil is laid flat on the board the adjacent coil should be mounted on edge and pointed to the centre of the reclining coil. Indeed I've seen advice that the flat one be raised up so that it points to the centre of the "on edge" one.
As well inductors should be as far apart as possible (which why this crossover has them in the 4 corners).
Looking at the illustration, I would think Inductor L3 should be stood on its edge.
Perhaps other more well-versed readers can weigh in? Maybe they already have (I haven't read every post)
I was just about to close the window on the assembly manual when the crossover caught my eye.
Conventional wisdom suggests that adjacent inductor orientation is important: if one coil is laid flat on the board the adjacent coil should be mounted on edge and pointed to the centre of the reclining coil. Indeed I've seen advice that the flat one be raised up so that it points to the centre of the "on edge" one.
As well inductors should be as far apart as possible (which why this crossover has them in the 4 corners).
Looking at the illustration, I would think Inductor L3 should be stood on its edge.
Perhaps other more well-versed readers can weigh in? Maybe they already have (I haven't read every post)
I was thinking the same thing, but shrugged it off assuming the designer knew what they were doing and had considered that. However, several people have figured out the crossover design was not optimal to begin with in terms of frequency response. They substituted most of the caps, inductors and resistors for slightly different values in order to make the response smoother. That being said, I suppose it could be an issue having L2 & L3 that close together in the same orientation. Once I get to the point of building these crossovers, I could mount L3 on it's edge.
I am not clear on which direction the mouth of the air core should face though...
This might help:
Help:Laying out inductors of crossover
Other advice might include separating high pass and low pass sections.
Help:Laying out inductors of crossover
Other advice might include separating high pass and low pass sections.
Some good info. After reading that and a bit further searching, i'll mount L3 on it's end with the air core opening facing L2 inductor.
My speaker kit arrives Thursday and the upgraded crossover parts should be here by the end of this week. I also have an additional order of acoustic panels arriving tomorrow to add to what i've already installed. This should solve most of the room issues, though not sure about the low frequencies below 250hz, as the NRC rating of the acoustic panels is calculated by measuring at 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 Hz. While i'm confident that the higher frequencies will be well taken care of, i'm not sure how effective the panels are below 250hz. I'm not going to address this until the speakers are built and I can do some real world testing. Solving that issue would likely require bass traps. I don't have much space for those, so it'll be a challenge if I need them.
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About the room treatments.
I wouldn't expect any room treatment to make a meaningful dent on noise originating with your neighours but in your space the effects can be significant.
Back in the early '80s our office bought and moved into a new building. Our space was open plan with no ceilings (exposed structure, roof deck, ductwork). The partners took one wall and put up part-height (7-8') partitions to define 12x12' offices. On both sides of these partitions they installed 4x8' panels of fabric covered fibreglas -- called "nubby tile" -- not specifically for sound but actually to serve as pin up board.
A decade or so later we moved out and one of the last bits of demolition we did was to remove the panels. I remember how disorienting it was to walk into one of those offices because of the huge change in the aural environment.
Of course, mileage may vary.
I wouldn't expect any room treatment to make a meaningful dent on noise originating with your neighours but in your space the effects can be significant.
Back in the early '80s our office bought and moved into a new building. Our space was open plan with no ceilings (exposed structure, roof deck, ductwork). The partners took one wall and put up part-height (7-8') partitions to define 12x12' offices. On both sides of these partitions they installed 4x8' panels of fabric covered fibreglas -- called "nubby tile" -- not specifically for sound but actually to serve as pin up board.
A decade or so later we moved out and one of the last bits of demolition we did was to remove the panels. I remember how disorienting it was to walk into one of those offices because of the huge change in the aural environment.
Of course, mileage may vary.
I'm not too worried about my neighbors being noisy. The issue is that the walls are pretty thin in this building and we can sometimes even hear my neighbor snoring in his living room, as well as the downstairs neighbor's music occasionally. I don't really care all that much about their noise. The problem is my outgoing noise. I worry that my sudden HiFi rebirth will annoy the crap our of the neighbor right on the other side of the wall behind my sofa. This is one of the main reasons, along with the size and shape of my listening space, that i'm treating the room acoustically.
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The most useful information I’ve found about controlling vibration and noise came from searching for articles or papers written for engineers or other professionals who are concerned with noise. I’m not an engineer but I never had trouble finding information that was non technical enough that I could understand it.
Another question I have for the community (relevant to my OP):
Solid core vs stranded for internal speaker wiring!
I have ordered some 12 gauge OFC stranded wiring for internal and external wiring of my kit. The solid core vs stranded debate seems to be a controversy. Depending on who you ask, it goes one way or the other. I've always been of the mind that it doesn't really matter. If you have decent OFC copper of a fairly good size gauge, there is no noticeable difference. It matters more how well components are connected (quality of solder joints and direct vs tin connectors). My lengths will be very short anyhow.
Am I correct in this?
Solid core vs stranded for internal speaker wiring!
I have ordered some 12 gauge OFC stranded wiring for internal and external wiring of my kit. The solid core vs stranded debate seems to be a controversy. Depending on who you ask, it goes one way or the other. I've always been of the mind that it doesn't really matter. If you have decent OFC copper of a fairly good size gauge, there is no noticeable difference. It matters more how well components are connected (quality of solder joints and direct vs tin connectors). My lengths will be very short anyhow.
Am I correct in this?
Another good suggestion. I have now read quite a bit on this. It really all depends on how much I want to nit pick this issue. I could go all out and try to build some space efficient corner bass traps, but I think (without having tested this yet) that the solution I am putting in place should be good enough for now. Thing is i'll be moving out of this place late this year or sometime next year. So no sense getting too detailed right now if the room characteristics will completely change at my next address anyhow...
We'll see once the system is built and playing music... 😀
I prefer solid core just because it's easier to solder. But 12awg is pretty overkill, at least for the tweeter. Go 16-14 for the woofer and around 22-20 awg for the tweeter and you won't risk tearing the latter to pieces or melting the connection points. (speaking out of personal experience smh🙁)
I typically use solid 24g wire for internal wiring, except for bass drivers in our WAW wher ei will use multiple strands.
dave
dave