I don’t know about “gold standard”, but my 11 pro does have a pretty good DAC.
I have hard wired it to my car’s premium system and played lossless audio through it. It sounds pretty amazing even in a noisy car environment. The difference in sound quality from compressed music in Spotify vs my lossless music is noticeable...
Is he a member here? Just curious on how I would reach out.
I am also thinking of doing this basically from scratch as an option.
While I can’t do the woodworking, I can design the enclosures and possibly have them cut by someone so I can assemble myself.
When I mentioned they were well braced, I was more thinking in terms of the enclosure stiffness. At the dimensions of the enclosures in both speaker options, with 3/4' mdf with the braces the design indicates, it seems to me these cabinets would be pretty stiff. Maybe not quite up to audiophile standards (I realize even saying that alludes to subjectivity), but certainly better than many retail speakers at a similar price point, no? Or 'erm, even just reading that back it didn't make much sense, LOL! I would need to literally disassemble some retail models with similar configurations to even begin to compare them...
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I went back and saw no indication of bracing. I would definitly be putting braces in a box that stiff. Remeber MDF is not very stiff. 15mm quality ply would handily outperform it.
I would also worry about how close the inner walls are to the midbass.
dave
Yes both of these have interior bracing:
The TriTrix MTM TL - TriTrix MTM Tranmission Line Speaker - Album on Imgur
TheSwan/HiVi DIY 3.1A - Amazon.com: HiVi - DIY 3.1A - 3.1 Bookshelf Speakers - Near-Field Speakers - DIY Speaker Kit - Pair - Black: Home Audio & Theater
Thinking more about this i'm wondering if maybe the Swan/HiVi option would be better suited to my situation. These are more near field. Since my listening position would be fairly close (6ft), it could be a better option. I really like the idea of a TL ported design though. The issue with those is that most TL designs have to be fairly large to get well, the transmission line in there.
Hmmm, still not sure.
Yje TriTrix i am familair with.
The brace in the HiVi box runs the wrong way, it makes the sub-panels closer to square, not good.
And i would really worry about the quality of the parts for that little money. I usually think of 1 pr of drivers with no box for that kind of price. Quantity vrs quality.
I suspect sells on the basis of mine is bigger (or more bits in this case) than yours.
No more comments from me. Not something i would even consider.
If you get them i hope you enjoy them.
dave
The brace in the HiVi box runs the wrong way, it makes the sub-panels closer to square, not good.
And i would really worry about the quality of the parts for that little money. I usually think of 1 pr of drivers with no box for that kind of price. Quantity vrs quality.
I suspect sells on the basis of mine is bigger (or more bits in this case) than yours.
No more comments from me. Not something i would even consider.
If you get them i hope you enjoy them.
dave
Given the low budget and lack of basic equipment/tools I would probably recommend a second hand pair of speakers.
You say you had some KEFs you liked, well why not just get a pair of 2nd hand Q150s, or similar, and call it a day?
In terms of value for money a speaker built with a SB17 based woofer + similar tweeter, if built and designed to a high standard would be equivalent to something like a Revel Performa 3. But you'd really need to know what you were doing and have access to tools to pull that off in a way that would be satisfying and not frustrating.
You say you had some KEFs you liked, well why not just get a pair of 2nd hand Q150s, or similar, and call it a day?
In terms of value for money a speaker built with a SB17 based woofer + similar tweeter, if built and designed to a high standard would be equivalent to something like a Revel Performa 3. But you'd really need to know what you were doing and have access to tools to pull that off in a way that would be satisfying and not frustrating.
Chris, I've been in a somewhat roughly analogous solution. I got into hifi as a teen and had money for small things like headphones, but never big money (or the space) for a real speaker-based hifi system.
I'm older now and things have changed. I'll let you know what direction I've gone in, after 10 years of casually browsing this website. Full disclosure: no connections to anyone in the industry. I simply only buy something if if is an item that I will never want to replace. I just decided to pull the trigger on starting to put together my first system. I got a speaker kit on the way.
True Hifi is accessible at all time $ lows, even with inflation factored in. Its more of a game of separating what is best from the average, rather than the good from bad. I'd honestly rate the kits you've been looking in as "bad". I don't mean to be rude, but stop you from making a bad purchasing decision & I want you to succeed man.
Audiosciencereview is a fantastic resource that is constantly updated.
Best value DAC ($130)-- by all means this should be "audibly transparent": Topping E30
Best DAC of the DACS ($899) --overkill measurements for the sake of overkill:
Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Best Value "Upgrade". Highest SQ improvement to a system of an already good AMP + Speakers. ($899 - 1499)
Mini DSP SHD Series
Streaming HD Series
Best Value Speaker Kits: DIY SOUND GROUP'S HT/HTM or other Kits. (I Just bought the new HTM-12). Probably too big for you, take a look at their other kits. Take a doubletake at the HTM-12 or Vortex 12's and 15's.
Denovo Home Theater Monitors
--NOTE-- This is heavily reflected by my personal heirachy of what I look for in speakers. Sensitivity is #1, Clean Linearity is #2, Constant Directivity is #3 #4 Simple Designs, Exceptional Engineering. You're purchasing decisions will heavily center around how high sensitivity your speakers are. The type of "sound" you get from low vs medium vs high sensitivity speakers is arguably a "catagory" of audibly different sound designs.
Best Value Amplifiers:
Class A:
Nelson Pass' First Watt / Burning Amp series Amplifiers. (I'm planning to build the Aleph J)
https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/printed-circuit-boards
Class AB:
Neurochrome Engineering Modulus series Amps
https://neurochrome.com/collections/power-amplifiers
Classs D:
Upcoming- https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-purifi-1et400a-amplifier.7984/
SET Tube:
https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html
I'm older now and things have changed. I'll let you know what direction I've gone in, after 10 years of casually browsing this website. Full disclosure: no connections to anyone in the industry. I simply only buy something if if is an item that I will never want to replace. I just decided to pull the trigger on starting to put together my first system. I got a speaker kit on the way.
True Hifi is accessible at all time $ lows, even with inflation factored in. Its more of a game of separating what is best from the average, rather than the good from bad. I'd honestly rate the kits you've been looking in as "bad". I don't mean to be rude, but stop you from making a bad purchasing decision & I want you to succeed man.
Audiosciencereview is a fantastic resource that is constantly updated.
Best value DAC ($130)-- by all means this should be "audibly transparent": Topping E30
Best DAC of the DACS ($899) --overkill measurements for the sake of overkill:
Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Best Value "Upgrade". Highest SQ improvement to a system of an already good AMP + Speakers. ($899 - 1499)
Mini DSP SHD Series
Streaming HD Series
Best Value Speaker Kits: DIY SOUND GROUP'S HT/HTM or other Kits. (I Just bought the new HTM-12). Probably too big for you, take a look at their other kits. Take a doubletake at the HTM-12 or Vortex 12's and 15's.
Denovo Home Theater Monitors
--NOTE-- This is heavily reflected by my personal heirachy of what I look for in speakers. Sensitivity is #1, Clean Linearity is #2, Constant Directivity is #3 #4 Simple Designs, Exceptional Engineering. You're purchasing decisions will heavily center around how high sensitivity your speakers are. The type of "sound" you get from low vs medium vs high sensitivity speakers is arguably a "catagory" of audibly different sound designs.
Best Value Amplifiers:
Class A:
Nelson Pass' First Watt / Burning Amp series Amplifiers. (I'm planning to build the Aleph J)
https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/printed-circuit-boards
Class AB:
Neurochrome Engineering Modulus series Amps
https://neurochrome.com/collections/power-amplifiers
Classs D:
Upcoming- https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-purifi-1et400a-amplifier.7984/
SET Tube:
https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html
I think the point about the iphone is that chasing after better quality when you can't tell the difference between one and the other, is obviously pointless.
Notwithstanding that letting go of preconceived biases can be very hard.
Here's another cheap and cheerful idea to challenge your ideas of what a good speaker needs to be. Don't have room for a timber cutting workshop? Use a knife and foamcore:
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Hmm, ok apologies. Not trying to be annoying, just inquisitive. I will have to read up more on cabinet bracing. I thought the idea of bracing was simply to stiffen the enclosure to prevent excessive resonance. It seems there is more to it than that.
You've given some good info, thanks! 🙂
That is certainly an option. As far as budget, it's not really that I am limited by that. It's just a budget I have set for myself based on my limited research. I could go higher if I find the right solution. It just gets into a grey area (DIY vs Retail) when you get up around the $800 - $1000 retail range. There are some amazing sounding speakers on the market. I figured if I could build a kit that costs me $300 and they have the same (or better) sound quality as an $800 speaker, then why not? According to some of the reviews i've seen on the options i've researched, this is possible. Not to say that I couldn't spend $800 - $1k on a kit and get something even better. But at that point I believe the difference in sound quality becomes more negligible.
I do (and always have) loved KEF's uni-q design methodology. My 103/4's were great (I think they were around $1800 new in the early 90s). However, I feel like I may be able to do better with a modern kit build. The drivers available these days are far better than what I could have purchased 30 years ago. The selection was limited and the cost was higher comparatively. In just the short time i've been revisiting this idea after so many years away, the options and designs are much better...
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With bracing to stiffen panels -- as with many (all?) things -- the devil is in the details.
Material, dimension, orientation etc all make a difference. And bracing is sometimes intended to help support the driver in some designs.
I think p10 is just pointing out what he sees as a general lack of attention to detail in this design. At a certain point you stop trying to fix deficiencies and just look elsewhere especially if you're looking for a pre-packaged solution.
Material, dimension, orientation etc all make a difference. And bracing is sometimes intended to help support the driver in some designs.
I think p10 is just pointing out what he sees as a general lack of attention to detail in this design. At a certain point you stop trying to fix deficiencies and just look elsewhere especially if you're looking for a pre-packaged solution.
Take Planet 10 as an market sale as he alwayes promote his own speakers.
Mark Audio Alpai.
Biased sale.
🙂
Mark Audio Alpai.
Biased sale.
🙂
I've read a lot of good things about the GR research XLS Encore's. They start at 250, and can be made quite a bit more expensive with upgrades. Seems really neat and I would build me a pair if it the shipping, taxes and custom fees to Sweden would gut me...
I think I saw a post on Audiocircle about flat packs for them.
Or check out: www.audioexcite.com
/Hilding
I think I saw a post on Audiocircle about flat packs for them.
Or check out: www.audioexcite.com
/Hilding
Everyone is biased. I have learned to only share my real-world experiences havin gbeen burned by stuff others tout. Everyone has to make their own decisions based on their own experience and what they can tease out of what others say.
I am not trying to sell anything. i no longer an in the hardware business (except for clearing out what is still lying around), i have no speakers to sell the OP.
I am still designing speakers, and have learned much over the years and am happy to share that. I have, i hope a pretty good track record, including many given away freely to diyers world wide, one of which has 1,000s of builds, most very happy with them. And no money is made from that design. But it helps diyers and small cottage industires near you.
dave
Absolutely true and I understand this. I draw some consensus from all the different opinions and factor this in my research. At the end of it, my decision on a solution may (or may not be) even close to suggestions offered. But even still, the consensus from all the advice has been combined and has influenced my decision to help me make an informed choice.
It's great to have a forum/community like this in which to draw from the wealth of experience! 🙂
The desire of most music listeners to want small speakers has driven the development of bookshelves to new levels, some have great bass. I would buy a used pair thats a few years old, or even a sell of by a dealer. (Last speakers I bought new were 1/2 the regular price. You can barely buy the parts for that amount).