Bricolo said:
No experience and not really my cup of tea.
Complex cross-overs from the look of the impedance curve. And ported.
Other's have reported being pleased with theirs.
I'm more of the "mostly full-range" persuasion. The BD-pipes are one of many alternatives. Another is the TLb.
dave
Bricolo said:It's my first DIY speaker, so I prefer building a "classical" speaker
Well, the ProAc clone definetly doesn't fit into that criteria. It is of the modern 2-way, with a midbass designed for bass extension and only moderate top-end extension Xoed to a robust dome that can go quite low (as long as you use a steep XO).
My preference is to avoid XOs in the critical midrange -- ie at least an octave higher than the ProAcs -- but that is my preference.
dave
Bricolo said:
This isn't classical. It is modern. The bass reflex didn't have a chance to gain it's current place until the advent of thiel-small modeling and the computer programs that take advantage of them. This is a quite recent development. It is just a matter of semantics thou, and we now know what you are looking to build.
Again, there are many proven examples of these kinds of systems on the net (the proac clone is just one example), but i am not one to comment too much on them, because it is not a route that i take when DIYing a speaker.
dave
Just to add my 2 cents worth - in my 30 years and 10's of thousands of dollars in persuing the best sound within my budget one thing stands out, the speaker is the most important part and the most variable part of a system. Not all will agree with me. Also after hearing or owning most speakers on the market, the ProAcs ar among the best. I would prefer to own the 2.5 clones that I have even if I had to play music at a lower volume. Sitting 1/2 the distance to the speakers is just as effective as using an amp with 4 times the power. In any case, why not go for the best speakers and then build or buy an amp capable of driving them. I would rather listen to my 2.5 clones with a cheap used Hafler amp than a lesser speaker with the best amp in the world. The sound produced will be better. We currently have two groups of audiphiles, those that want high efficiency speakers to mate with arguably better low powered single ended tube amps and those that choose low efficiency speakers and then spend a fortune on good sounding high power amps. The 2.5's are in the middle of this mess, but can sound excellent with 30 watts plus.
Bricolo,
As you live in France you could try using Audax drivers, and I would suggest the Hi-Fi world KLS10. I have built several pairs, and they are great little speakers and run at 90dB, and so will easily work with a 30w amp.
They don't go very low though, so you will need the matching sub kit.
As you live in France you could try using Audax drivers, and I would suggest the Hi-Fi world KLS10. I have built several pairs, and they are great little speakers and run at 90dB, and so will easily work with a 30w amp.
They don't go very low though, so you will need the matching sub kit.
And that's the problem right there. I've heard so many great speakers that "won't go real low" that I gave up on "high efficiency" speakers. They ARE efficient from 50hz or so up but just miss the last octave. High efficiency in the bass seems impossible without using horns, huge enclosures, or an amplified subwoofer. Look at the low end of Fostex, Lowther, Klipsch, etc and the bass is not satisfactory in my opinion. The larger Klipsch are fine if you have the room.
Can you build a bigger SOZ? An Aleph 5?
Can you build a bigger SOZ? An Aleph 5?
About 3 years ago I got Cyclotronguy to start researching
speaker drivers with the instructions to acquire a pair of
everything over 95 DB sensitivity, on the hypothesis that
out of the pile we would find some really good drivers.
He has yet to get everything made, but I can report that
a reasonable percentage of the drivers are quite good, and
some are spectacularly good.
A couple of limitations have emerged: You should assume
at least bi-amping and be prepared for quint-amping, as
none of the best drivers are extremely wide-band.
Also, you will never get deep bass out of efficient drivers
without a nice big box. If your floor footprint is limited,
use a Sonotube to the ceiling or even through the roof.
speaker drivers with the instructions to acquire a pair of
everything over 95 DB sensitivity, on the hypothesis that
out of the pile we would find some really good drivers.
He has yet to get everything made, but I can report that
a reasonable percentage of the drivers are quite good, and
some are spectacularly good.
A couple of limitations have emerged: You should assume
at least bi-amping and be prepared for quint-amping, as
none of the best drivers are extremely wide-band.
Also, you will never get deep bass out of efficient drivers
without a nice big box. If your floor footprint is limited,
use a Sonotube to the ceiling or even through the roof.
hey, i MUST ask this here: you wrote you can´t get wrong with TAD - > Kent gave me advice to choose TD2001, isn´t 500Hz - 18kHz wide band?
i understand most high efficiency speakers are not wide band, but something can´t be right here. Isn´t TAD something of the best ore aren´t they wide band?
Sorry to be confusing. As you may know, there
are audiphiles who are quite enthused about single
"full range" drivers such as Lowther and Fostex.
I happen to share this appreciation, but every once
in a while I want something which goes down lower, or
higher, or players louder, or doesn't have the modal
break-up in the upper midrange.
Since I've opened my mouth on the subject, inevitably
people will want to know what brands have efficient
drivers that work well.
I put TAD at the top of the list, but they are supremely
expensive. After that, look at PHL, pro Audax (Polydax),
Eminence, Beyma, Selenium, Cabasse, JBL. This is only a
partial list, but it will get you started. Don't overlook the
classic stuff: Altec, Tannoy, JBL, Electrovoice.
A ZV4 can break your lease with any of these.
MuuHahahahaha.....
are audiphiles who are quite enthused about single
"full range" drivers such as Lowther and Fostex.
I happen to share this appreciation, but every once
in a while I want something which goes down lower, or
higher, or players louder, or doesn't have the modal
break-up in the upper midrange.
Since I've opened my mouth on the subject, inevitably
people will want to know what brands have efficient
drivers that work well.
I put TAD at the top of the list, but they are supremely
expensive. After that, look at PHL, pro Audax (Polydax),
Eminence, Beyma, Selenium, Cabasse, JBL. This is only a
partial list, but it will get you started. Don't overlook the
classic stuff: Altec, Tannoy, JBL, Electrovoice.
A ZV4 can break your lease with any of these.
MuuHahahahaha.....
Nelson Pass said:About 3 years ago I got Cyclotronguy to start researching
speaker drivers with the instructions to acquire a pair of
everything over 95 DB sensitivity, on the hypothesis that
out of the pile we would find some really good drivers.
He has yet to get everything made, but I can report that
a reasonable percentage of the drivers are quite good, and
some are spectacularly good.
A couple of limitations have emerged: You should assume
at least bi-amping and be prepared for quint-amping, as
none of the best drivers are extremely wide-band.
Also, you will never get deep bass out of efficient drivers
without a nice big box. If your floor footprint is limited,
use a Sonotube to the ceiling or even through the roof.
I started playing with Sono Tubes about 6 years ago; my recent endeavor is two Sono Tubes, one inside the other.
Start with an 18" tube and drop a 16" or 14" tube inside it. Make MDF spacers to keep them evenly spaced all around. The spacers should only be a few inches wide and cut to half the difference between the two tubes diameters. Cut the outer tube at about 6 feet and the inner tube an inch shorter, that inch is to allow for a top plate. You will need to cut the top plate to be a tight fit for the 18" tube. You will also need to route a .125 circular groove on the inside of the plate to the diameter of the inner tube.
When the Top plate is screwed in through the side of the 18" tube, be sure to put carpenters glue in the groove you routed and that it fits snuggly over the inner tube.
On the bottom side you will need two baffles, one will be a filler plate between the two tube diameters much like a ring. It is also the plate you will mount your feet to, so you should double up on the thickness. The other plate will mount up inside the inner tube by about a foot; you can play with this dimension as it is meant to reduce chuffing caused by the ground effect of the floor against the cone surface. The outer dimension is determined by the inner tube size of course, but the opening depends on your driver size. I have not tried porting this design yet and I get very nice bottom end using some McBride V15" Woofers.
Once the assembly is complete you have the option of filling the gap between the tubes with either Sand or Cement, Sand is more practical and can be topped off after settling, not to mention emptied for moving.
50% fill seems to work well, though you need to glue it in place or it all drops on the driver, I suggest 3M spray adhesive.
The feet can be made by forming a simple V with some nice exotic wood of your choice, 2x4 or 2x6 on edge works great. They should be about 1 and a half times the diameter of the outer tube.
As far as getting the wires out; drill a hole through the inner tube, pull your wire (no laughing) through the hole and seal with silicon. Mount your binding posts to the outer tube and connect the wire coming through the inner tube. Leave you self some slack and assemble as close to the bottom as possible. Protect the wire and binding post with heat shrink.
I call mine Sono Woofers.
Regards
Anthony
hey Bricolo, give up. I intended to buy new speakers and asked them - they didn´t answered but brought me to build by myshelf. (search the old threads and read) The board is called "diy" and the really skilled people around here will answer you every question and give you every help you need - as long as what you do is diy.
Why wouldn't it be DIY?
I want to build my speakers myself, don't I?
I just don't want to start from zero, but build speakers according to bos dimentions, selected drivers, crossover shematics...
I want to build it, not to create myself all its parts
A perfect example of what I'm looking for is the proacs 2.5 clones. The bos dimentions, crossover shematics, required drivers.... everything is available on internet
I want to build my speakers myself, don't I?
I just don't want to start from zero, but build speakers according to bos dimentions, selected drivers, crossover shematics...
I want to build it, not to create myself all its parts
A perfect example of what I'm looking for is the proacs 2.5 clones. The bos dimentions, crossover shematics, required drivers.... everything is available on internet
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