Recommanded nearfield passive studio-monitors?

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#21
profiguy said:
The other annoying thing on the Neumann is the amount of compression limiting HF dynamics, common for many small to medium sized active DSP driven monitors There's too much processing which is rather audible on transients. That interferes with what you hear, even at reasonably low playback levels.
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Wow - I had no idea this kind of processing was happening inside a monitor.
 
#23
On what grounds are you disagreeing? I can certainly hear the effects of DSP multi band limiting on the KH120s. You'd have to be completely oblivious not to hear it, especially playing percussion and drums through them, even when the drivers should be able to deliver more. Its likely done for warranty purposes.

The Neumann KH series monitors are all DSP corrected. They have limiting based on thermal and mechanical driver limits. You can definitely hear these limiters in action. They can be intrusive depending on how much demand is placed on the drivers and the type of material played through them. They sound good at lower levels used in the near field, but not so much in midfield with demanding program material.
 
#25
Guys please avoid starting a discussion about something which isn't related to the topic.
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If you look at all this post that has years of ping pong summing up to #10.000+ this is business as usual here, difficult to keep up when you don't want to have a full time job to follow the only thing you can do is to put the question as specific as possible
 
#29
profiguy said:
On what grounds are you disagreeing? I can certainly hear the effects of DSP multi band limiting on the KH120s.
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Obviously - limiting is very easy to MEASURE. And I trust my and Amirs measurements more than you listening.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/

Of course the drivers are protected and there is an indication when limiting is setting in. But for the size these units get really loud without distortion or limiting. That's a fact, don't let us discuss on a "but I hear XY" basis ...

profiguy said:
They can be intrusive depending on how much demand is placed on the drivers and the type of material played through them. They sound good at lower levels used in the near field, but not so much in midfield with demanding program material.
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No idea what you want from a speaker with 5" low frequency driver ... but these are not midfield monitors.
But they have the same tweeter as the bigger models like KH420 and max level at 1/3% THD is in the 110dBSpl area - which is 10dB more as the lf driver can deliver: https://www.neumann.com/de-de/produkte/monitors/kh-120-ii/
Btw - Genelec limiters are WAY strickter. We could not get 94dBSpl in 0,5m at 20kHz, limitier is setting in. Therefore we could not use the first generation of Genelec One for measurements in the freefield chamber. But this never occured during listening.


It's still my opinion that monitors like these are the best bang for the buck if you need a reliable monitoring situation.
Of course you can buy 2-3 cheaper ones before - but you will buy speakers in this class anyway over time, so don't waste money ...
 
#30
itamar2312 said:
I've noticed you can buy good and old studio-monitors for cheap, for example, the PMC TB2 cost 350$: The drivers cost around 180$, and I'd gladly add 170$ to avoid the carpentry and deal with the electronic wires.

Although I'm looking for more offers like that, with better-more expansive drivers.

My budget is around 1,200$.

P.S. I got a powerful amp.
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You might be able to find a second hand Amphion Argon 2 (a speaker preceding the One18 which is a passive studio monitor) pair for that, if you can find the older version with biamp option and Seas tweeter it would enable you to tame the tweeter crossover for nearfield use by using a small resistor instead of straight bridge.

https://www.tv-audio.fi/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/DSC00851-scaled.jpg
 
#31
This topic comes up a lot, and the truthful answer is always the same. Making a good monitor and I mean actually good, not one of the silly old school dispersion mismatched two ways that are monitors only in name, is not easy. Many issues in speakers that are glossed over during listening and don't present much of a problem, become very apparent when one attempts to use them for mixing, which is an experience I don't think many have here. You'll get a lot of input from claimed professionals who are mostly concerned with having their ideas be chosen and supported by the prospective builder, rather than getting them the tool they actually need.

The only designer I'm aware of making diy speakers 'kits' at the level of current actually good monitors is Heissmann acoustics with his various designs. As much as I like DIY speakers, when I'm working I just want to turn on some genelecs and start working.
 
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