I've noticed you can buy good and old studio-monitors for cheap, for example, the PMC TB2 cost 350$: The drivers cost around 180$, and I'd gladly add 170$ to avoid the carpentry and deal with the electronic wires.
Although I'm looking for more offers like that, with better-more expansive drivers.
My budget is around 1,200$.
P.S. I got a powerful amp.
Although I'm looking for more offers like that, with better-more expansive drivers.
My budget is around 1,200$.
P.S. I got a powerful amp.
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I don't know any passive studio monitors which come close to these modern, DSP driven monitors combined with measurement systems. These are so much more linear and can be tailored to your room and also listening preferences. You even often have digital inputs so you don't need top notch D/A converters - just go in there digital and let the speaker do it's job.
There are some great passive monitors like the big ATC or PMC monitors - but they are way over this budget and you need the right (big) room for them.
The best price/performance ration today is a pair of KH120ii + MA1 measurement set.
Have a look: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/
There are some great passive monitors like the big ATC or PMC monitors - but they are way over this budget and you need the right (big) room for them.
The best price/performance ration today is a pair of KH120ii + MA1 measurement set.
Have a look: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/
2,400$ ?!?!?!? I can build something pretty much the same for 1/5 of that price in the worst scenerio.
You think so? Then please do it and show us!
If we are multiple to tell you 'better buy something' there must be a reason.
In my case it's all about the need for translation with monitoring. One already proven design is supposedly taking care of it.
The other reason is you told you don't want spend time reverse engineering or on design.
Selecting drivers you like on a random manner won't bring you anything close to any monitoring availlable on commercial offer, and given the question you already asked ( eg: do i need xover?) And you don't want a new hobby you'll need to study a bunch of things before having something usable.
If we are multiple to tell you 'better buy something' there must be a reason.
In my case it's all about the need for translation with monitoring. One already proven design is supposedly taking care of it.
The other reason is you told you don't want spend time reverse engineering or on design.
Selecting drivers you like on a random manner won't bring you anything close to any monitoring availlable on commercial offer, and given the question you already asked ( eg: do i need xover?) And you don't want a new hobby you'll need to study a bunch of things before having something usable.
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Chicken salad. Lol.
Professional and home studio in the same sentence as well as talking only about price of gear... i should have seen the signs. 😁
I bring popcorn to see the slow motion trainwreck at work. 👍🤣
Professional and home studio in the same sentence as well as talking only about price of gear... i should have seen the signs. 😁
I bring popcorn to see the slow motion trainwreck at work. 👍🤣
I see you've edited your message.
I say "professional home studio" because I have 4,200$ worth acoustic (from rockwool, see pic) which I built for 700$!
I have good mics and good audio interface and great midi keyboard (see the table on the pic, another few hundred dollars saved).
People can save a lot of money by doing stuff their own, if they're qualified, if they studied some math, physics or science. And thank god we're pretty much all qualified, espacially who graduated.
We need to cheer-up eachother to do stuff our own, and help eachother, instead of giving up and spend 5 to 10 times more, thousand of dollars, the music industy are thieves, look how much the drivers cost!
I say "professional home studio" because I have 4,200$ worth acoustic (from rockwool, see pic) which I built for 700$!
I have good mics and good audio interface and great midi keyboard (see the table on the pic, another few hundred dollars saved).
People can save a lot of money by doing stuff their own, if they're qualified, if they studied some math, physics or science. And thank god we're pretty much all qualified, espacially who graduated.
We need to cheer-up eachother to do stuff our own, and help eachother, instead of giving up and spend 5 to 10 times more, thousand of dollars, the music industy are thieves, look how much the drivers cost!
Attachments
Yes i edited my post ( got this bad habits so better wait 20 minutes before answering to one of mine 😉 ) but not to play a game just gives more accurate pov.
Ok let's clarifying things up: professional means you make money from something. If that is the case then you are part of industry.
If that is the case then cost of tools are secondary as this is an investissment which will bring back money over short/medium/longterm and as such it's not as much an issue as for hobbyist.
When visiting a factory you don't talk about how much a tool cost but better how much money it bring back over a given amount of time.
Music production is an industry. As such monitors are tools. From the 2 thread you started i can identify 2 points: you are attracted by 'brand name' and costs.
But it lacks one thing in my view: your objective/target.
Costs, ok for most of us it is an important point but if you make money from this then it's secondary...
Brand Name: if you are into commercial studio it can bring money to invest into something known as a reference name to bring clients and make more money.
If for yourself then it's a matter of pleasing yourself.
From what you already wrote i can tell you are trying to please yourself as the brands you talked about are as far as each others you can choose ( the design target and way to achieve it are really different). And as such they will require different room treatment, location, etc,etc,...
One other point is you start your journey by defining a set of driver on which base a design.
In fact it is the other way around, the driver choice are often the last step in a design process...
As you don't wan't to go deep into loudspeaker design ( reverse engineering, studying different approach,...) it makes much more sense to go for a prooven design rather than spend money into something that won't make it in the end.
So from there advice of either buy something commercial either build a prooven design.
Anyway in any case it lacks the most important step: define your target/objective.
Being it you want something prettier to look at, a different directivity behavior, more bandpass extension, something with higher headroom, something adapted to your room and treatments you've done, a system which translate better, a required spl at listening position, the colour of the drivers,...
Whatever please you. But clearly defined target and by order of importance.
Without this step...?
I hope my pov is clearer as is. And i don't wan't to dismiss you, your will, your inteligence, competence or what you've done already in your life. It's just some of us have already had experience ( even professional too) about this and know what work and what doesn't ( will give a failure as outcome).
You ask for advice, got answers which doesn't pleased you.
It can hurts, that's fine.It have been for many of us.
Now let's talk about what you really want/need.
From looking at pictures you linked i can define some target in the design I would favour over other things. And can tell i won't go with Atc or Pmc monitors ( inspired) loudspeakers. But that is me.
Ok let's clarifying things up: professional means you make money from something. If that is the case then you are part of industry.
If that is the case then cost of tools are secondary as this is an investissment which will bring back money over short/medium/longterm and as such it's not as much an issue as for hobbyist.
When visiting a factory you don't talk about how much a tool cost but better how much money it bring back over a given amount of time.
Music production is an industry. As such monitors are tools. From the 2 thread you started i can identify 2 points: you are attracted by 'brand name' and costs.
But it lacks one thing in my view: your objective/target.
Costs, ok for most of us it is an important point but if you make money from this then it's secondary...
Brand Name: if you are into commercial studio it can bring money to invest into something known as a reference name to bring clients and make more money.
If for yourself then it's a matter of pleasing yourself.
From what you already wrote i can tell you are trying to please yourself as the brands you talked about are as far as each others you can choose ( the design target and way to achieve it are really different). And as such they will require different room treatment, location, etc,etc,...
One other point is you start your journey by defining a set of driver on which base a design.
In fact it is the other way around, the driver choice are often the last step in a design process...
As you don't wan't to go deep into loudspeaker design ( reverse engineering, studying different approach,...) it makes much more sense to go for a prooven design rather than spend money into something that won't make it in the end.
So from there advice of either buy something commercial either build a prooven design.
Anyway in any case it lacks the most important step: define your target/objective.
Being it you want something prettier to look at, a different directivity behavior, more bandpass extension, something with higher headroom, something adapted to your room and treatments you've done, a system which translate better, a required spl at listening position, the colour of the drivers,...
Whatever please you. But clearly defined target and by order of importance.
Without this step...?
I hope my pov is clearer as is. And i don't wan't to dismiss you, your will, your inteligence, competence or what you've done already in your life. It's just some of us have already had experience ( even professional too) about this and know what work and what doesn't ( will give a failure as outcome).
You ask for advice, got answers which doesn't pleased you.
It can hurts, that's fine.It have been for many of us.
Now let's talk about what you really want/need.
From looking at pictures you linked i can define some target in the design I would favour over other things. And can tell i won't go with Atc or Pmc monitors ( inspired) loudspeakers. But that is me.
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Although your listening space doesn't look like any professional studio, I do agree with you when it comes to saving money by DIY. I would not spend 2400$ for filling up (with sound) a space like that.
However, the cost ratio may be far from 10x or even 5x.
I build a LOT of speakers and no - you can't.
A good DSP plate amp (Hypex FA122 as minimum) costs about $400,- But you still don't have the MA-1 measurement possibility with it.
Let's go HighEnd - Purify 5.25 and Bliesma T25B. Look it up. And you need a good waveguide. And you won't be able to do a reflex port as undisturbed as in the KH120ii.
Even when you take cheaper chassis (which won't get you the low end but probably close enough) .... just calculate $10 per working hour ...
And yes - you can save a lot of money with building acoustic panels yourself.
But you will save even more when consutling a pro first and decide on an acoustic concept for the room ...
The Neumann KH120 isn't a very reliable monitor. I've had mine repaired 3 times for the same failure and waited forever to get them back. You can't buy separate components for the electronics (only complete PCBs) which is their weakness. The quality just isn't there. I'd rather run small ATCs with outboard EQ.
The other annoying thing on the Neumann is the amount of compression limiting HF dynamics, common for many small to medium sized active DSP driven monitors There's too much processing which is rather audible on transients. That interferes with what you hear, even at reasonably low playback levels.
The other annoying thing on the Neumann is the amount of compression limiting HF dynamics, common for many small to medium sized active DSP driven monitors There's too much processing which is rather audible on transients. That interferes with what you hear, even at reasonably low playback levels.
they look pretty cool never seen those before . you in the states ? I've found these unbelievably good especially for the moneyhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195874379011?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=QmQHPI3LQqe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_lu_XF1LTk-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Would consider using reference series drivers from Dayton
and using nice tweeter for 2 way build then.
If feeling crafty.
Dont really need studio monitor in the title.
Your just looking for nice pair of bookshelf speakers
and using nice tweeter for 2 way build then.
If feeling crafty.
Dont really need studio monitor in the title.
Your just looking for nice pair of bookshelf speakers
I'm stuck living at a hotel while there's work being done on my house.
I grabbed a single Behringer B2030A and brought it with me to the hotel.
At first it sounded fairly bright, then I remembered that it's too bright out of the box. (I posted measurements of it here on diyaudio years ago)
My first attempt to make it sound good involved using the open source "APO" equalizer. That didn't work great; Windows loves to stomp all over settings like that, and I've never been able to get APO working reliably for long. In this case, my adjustments using APO were being ignored by Windows entirely, without throwing errors. I know I could have invested 90 minutes troubleshooting APO, but since the changes required are so subtle, I didn't want to wind up in a situation where I get it fixed and then Windows breaks it a week later.
So I grabbed one of my MiniDSPs and used that instead.
Once the B2030A is 'massaged' with a MiniDSP, it's pretty darn legit. I'd argue it's as good as anything that costs less than $500 each really. I used to run some used Vandersteens in my home theatre, and I'd say the Behringer is significantly more neutral.
Audiosciencereview basically came to the same conclusion. I didn't see their review until after I EQ'D my set of Behringers, but it's funny that we both came to the same conclusion: great and affordable speaker, but desperately needs EQ. Out of the box, it's engineered to be bright.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-b2030p-studio-monitor-review.14719/
They're so cheap, I've been tinkering with the idea of buying three more and doing a five channel set up for the first time ever.
I've also tried a bunch of the other "usual suspects" in this price range. The Infinity ILs are currently set up in my living room, and I have Yamaha DXR12s in my home theater. I have a set of Kali LP6s in my closet:
* I'd say the midbass on the Infinity is superior, but the tweeter is inferior. As audiosciencereview noted, they're just something "off" about the Infinity tweeter. It's an incredibl cheap device, looks like a five dollar tweeter. If I had to guess, I'd argue that the back chamber is too small and that's introducing some kind of resonance in the lower treble. This was probably an engineering decision; an undersized back chamber combined with a passive high pass filter will increase your power handling quite a bit. Despite that, I had to buy a replacement for one because I (wait for it) blew one of the tweeters. To put this in perspective, I've never burned out a tweeter, ever, in 30+ years of listening. Until I got the Infinities.
* The Kali LP6 is a pretty decent design but I'm not thrilled with how flimsy the enclosure is. Feels really cheap. I can't hear anything particularly wrong with it, so I guess they're doing something right? But to me, I get more "peace of mind" from the Behringer design, which is much much sturdier.
I tried some of the newer JBL speakers that offer compression drivers, but the highs sounded a little "off." They use a diffraction horn and I think that's probably the issue. The JBLs, like the Behringers, are really well built.
Anyways, it's way under your budget, but the Behringer is pretty nice. All of these will require subs, so perhaps set the extra money aside for that?
EDIT:
One last thing: I have the active version of the Behringers. They are completely unusable unless you address the ground loop issue. If you end up getting a set, and you wind up with a really bad hum, be sure to plug your source and the speakers into the same outlet. If you don't, they hum like crazy.
I grabbed a single Behringer B2030A and brought it with me to the hotel.
At first it sounded fairly bright, then I remembered that it's too bright out of the box. (I posted measurements of it here on diyaudio years ago)
My first attempt to make it sound good involved using the open source "APO" equalizer. That didn't work great; Windows loves to stomp all over settings like that, and I've never been able to get APO working reliably for long. In this case, my adjustments using APO were being ignored by Windows entirely, without throwing errors. I know I could have invested 90 minutes troubleshooting APO, but since the changes required are so subtle, I didn't want to wind up in a situation where I get it fixed and then Windows breaks it a week later.
So I grabbed one of my MiniDSPs and used that instead.
Once the B2030A is 'massaged' with a MiniDSP, it's pretty darn legit. I'd argue it's as good as anything that costs less than $500 each really. I used to run some used Vandersteens in my home theatre, and I'd say the Behringer is significantly more neutral.
Audiosciencereview basically came to the same conclusion. I didn't see their review until after I EQ'D my set of Behringers, but it's funny that we both came to the same conclusion: great and affordable speaker, but desperately needs EQ. Out of the box, it's engineered to be bright.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-b2030p-studio-monitor-review.14719/
They're so cheap, I've been tinkering with the idea of buying three more and doing a five channel set up for the first time ever.
I've also tried a bunch of the other "usual suspects" in this price range. The Infinity ILs are currently set up in my living room, and I have Yamaha DXR12s in my home theater. I have a set of Kali LP6s in my closet:
* I'd say the midbass on the Infinity is superior, but the tweeter is inferior. As audiosciencereview noted, they're just something "off" about the Infinity tweeter. It's an incredibl cheap device, looks like a five dollar tweeter. If I had to guess, I'd argue that the back chamber is too small and that's introducing some kind of resonance in the lower treble. This was probably an engineering decision; an undersized back chamber combined with a passive high pass filter will increase your power handling quite a bit. Despite that, I had to buy a replacement for one because I (wait for it) blew one of the tweeters. To put this in perspective, I've never burned out a tweeter, ever, in 30+ years of listening. Until I got the Infinities.
* The Kali LP6 is a pretty decent design but I'm not thrilled with how flimsy the enclosure is. Feels really cheap. I can't hear anything particularly wrong with it, so I guess they're doing something right? But to me, I get more "peace of mind" from the Behringer design, which is much much sturdier.
I tried some of the newer JBL speakers that offer compression drivers, but the highs sounded a little "off." They use a diffraction horn and I think that's probably the issue. The JBLs, like the Behringers, are really well built.
Anyways, it's way under your budget, but the Behringer is pretty nice. All of these will require subs, so perhaps set the extra money aside for that?
EDIT:
One last thing: I have the active version of the Behringers. They are completely unusable unless you address the ground loop issue. If you end up getting a set, and you wind up with a really bad hum, be sure to plug your source and the speakers into the same outlet. If you don't, they hum like crazy.