Gerner
i don't know if such extravagant pricetags still will have space in a world, sliding in a deep economic , worldwide recession. Shure, there were in the past so many Wall Street players, russian oil billionaires, chinese magnat's etc, for whom us$100k was like a 1$ tip for us. And the one or other manufacturer were able to sell speakers even more expensive. If Aleks will be able to find customers however, today, well.... i doubt it very much. With all respect, Gerner, but you seem having moved from BD-design propaganda department, to RAAL department. Each commercial speaker has a different developement cost. RAAL is a small manufacturer, and i cannot imagine Aleks to have a development budget of us$ 100.000,00. With what ? the components value of the Eternity's can easily be calculated :
10 x 15" woofers á 120 euros, 1200 euros. 36 midrange drivers á lets guess 40 euros each, 1440 euros. raal ribbons, lets put 1500 euros as well. cabinet cost , just a guess 3000 euros, crossover 400 euros, and the 300 watt tube amp, 3000 euros. total 10500 euros. Developement costs ? just a lot of time.....
Angelo
i don't know if such extravagant pricetags still will have space in a world, sliding in a deep economic , worldwide recession. Shure, there were in the past so many Wall Street players, russian oil billionaires, chinese magnat's etc, for whom us$100k was like a 1$ tip for us. And the one or other manufacturer were able to sell speakers even more expensive. If Aleks will be able to find customers however, today, well.... i doubt it very much. With all respect, Gerner, but you seem having moved from BD-design propaganda department, to RAAL department. Each commercial speaker has a different developement cost. RAAL is a small manufacturer, and i cannot imagine Aleks to have a development budget of us$ 100.000,00. With what ? the components value of the Eternity's can easily be calculated :
10 x 15" woofers á 120 euros, 1200 euros. 36 midrange drivers á lets guess 40 euros each, 1440 euros. raal ribbons, lets put 1500 euros as well. cabinet cost , just a guess 3000 euros, crossover 400 euros, and the 300 watt tube amp, 3000 euros. total 10500 euros. Developement costs ? just a lot of time.....
Angelo
gerner said:
DIY costs money for materials but the most expensive part is time. This is a hobby so no value is placed on time.
Run a business and everything costs money that must be got back from the product - time, R&D, materials, machining, overheads, a wage.
This is why we see high priced audio product that DIY can easily compete with. We only have to factor one thing and that's materials. By all accounts materials makes a small part of a manufacturers total outgoing. DIY has a new set of problems that aren't financial but academic, skill and commitment related.
DIY is only very expensive if you give it to someone else to do and pay them. Which isn't really DIY but bespoke work.
angeloitacare said:
That's actually pretty good considering what the 100k+ designs are packing. Lets face it all these have is a few drivers adding up to a couple thousand at best. Now that's robbery at its best.
To someone who leads a busy life and is financially sound enough to afford $100k speakers then I doubt they have the time or inclination to learn and fabricate a large scale project. Such a task would take years on a part time basis fitting around a job and family. I know because I spent the past year and half on the same loudspeaker project and only now is it complete. If I had the money I would have skipped that and got straight to the point
With commercial the downside is the price, with DIY the downside is time and to a lesser extent price. Its fine if you don't give a hoot about your time but unlike us, some people do.
angeloitacare said:
What is the message here? Do you want me to have somebody closing down RAAL-REQUISITE.
Shall I hire a mafia and kill them all in that company?
Are you then happy?
Will it also please you that I take a gun and put a bullit in my head, just because I have bought a speaker. A new chair or a tea cup?
Your calculations beside that, is also empty.
Ha... if I now tell you that one of the capacitors in the filter can be bought for 700- Euros/pcs., no matter who you are.
If I tare out the internal cabeling you will get those cables from me with discount for 1500,- Euro. What do you think a top notch 300 wattage tubeamp is costing? Moulding, casting.... are you brain dead?
The Omni ribbon, if they were a OEM driver will cost you 7000,- EURO each.
I better go back and rave about the Swings to make you happy again. I'm not employed in RAAL-REQUISITE....
How you can blow up a nothing to be the whole shitty universe.
I don't get exactly YOUR point Angelo, you are chasing me of what reasons? And then you jump on RAAL-REQUISITE and sing:
*I can do everything cheaper and better than you can..tralalalala*
I'm afraid you started this little topic questioning who heard the Eternity speaker and buying that flight ticket, you jumped on the wrong plane and landed on the moon.
I must point out to you their e-mail addresses and there you can spill your water out of your ears to Aleks and Danny and leave me alone.
To you Angelo: I appologize for having spent my money that way.
I am very very sorry hope you will forgive it one day.
And it's neither a very good invention, that you hostage me on your platform to a found guilty guy raving. Do you BTW have a mirror in the house? Take a look.
Point one finger at somebody and 3 fingers pointing where?
Gerner
ABJensen said:My engilsh is bad so I come with short statments, like Tarzan
Ha... ABJ country pal of mine...
Good reply....
The speakers are IMO discussed to an extend, that the fact that only two pairs excists up to now, maybe it's better to postpone that descussion a little until more morons like me have bought a pair or two and can add their opinions. Then there could maybe be found a little more substance i the discussion, which latest has turned into a price tag question.
I don't think their arguments will be much different than mine. Propably they bought them because they like them.
Then let's discuss the price tag. I know what it looks like. It's a piece of paper declaring a figure and then those you wants, get the speakers.
We could also turn the discussion into Omnis vs boxed speakers vs panel speakers vs horns.
Then my trumpet shall sound that whatever we like we like. There are other speakers I also like very much.
It's hard the way we discuss it here, to find the winner and our favourite football player.
Is this not BTW a DIY forum. Somebody must have made an omni speaker here? That can teach Aleks and his team how really to make it. Hehe
Gerner
ABJensen said:
Opaaaa ABJ
An omni beamer made in little Denmark.
and made biiiiig. Wonder how such a thing would sound?At least another guy puzzling with the omni thing.
Best,
Gerner
ABJensen said:
Ole Thofte made it years ago, and only that one, I gues he ran out af time too make a nother.Commercialy no way.
Ps He wonted too make it fullrange, but ended up with the biggest tweeter in the world
Hej ABJ
I agree this is a big tweeter and popably very heavy as well. Magnets!
Look at RAAL's little Omni ribbon teweter has *only* 16 kg neo clusters each driver.
But avoided the height grew too high and beaming phenomenons would unhandlable.
But good try from Ole to make something different, even he might have dropped the idea.
Ciao
Gerner
hi Gerner
i don't get why your defensive and offensive reaction..... do you expect me to accept everything you say, and not to question anything ? are we here to share ? if not , what else ? so please , calm down.... if we cannot respect the different opinions of each other, it might be better to stop posting at this thread....
i don't know, and either, why to drive 10 15" woofers, you will need that much power. Anyhow, if 100 Watt tube power would be enough, there is at Audiogon for example a Audio Research available, for the bargain of us$ 2300,00
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1229033820&/Audio-Reasearch-VT-100-MK-2-Tu
does 16kg neo magnet jusitfy a price tag of 7500 euros ?
http://www.magnetweb.com/Col01.htm
price is ~ us$30.00 per kilo. That meens us$ 480,00 of neo magnet is employd.... a far way to go, to reach the oem price....
well, did i not ask you in this regard?
If you do not like MBL's, what makes you feel different in regard of the Requisites ? What do they better ? since the room - speaker interaction is a essencial part of the sound perception...
i don't get why your defensive and offensive reaction..... do you expect me to accept everything you say, and not to question anything ? are we here to share ? if not , what else ? so please , calm down.... if we cannot respect the different opinions of each other, it might be better to stop posting at this thread....
i don't know, and either, why to drive 10 15" woofers, you will need that much power. Anyhow, if 100 Watt tube power would be enough, there is at Audiogon for example a Audio Research available, for the bargain of us$ 2300,00
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1229033820&/Audio-Reasearch-VT-100-MK-2-Tu
does 16kg neo magnet jusitfy a price tag of 7500 euros ?
http://www.magnetweb.com/Col01.htm
price is ~ us$30.00 per kilo. That meens us$ 480,00 of neo magnet is employd.... a far way to go, to reach the oem price....
well, did i not ask you in this regard?
If you do not like MBL's, what makes you feel different in regard of the Requisites ? What do they better ? since the room - speaker interaction is a essencial part of the sound perception...
Funny to read
Dear all,
I´m the designer of the Kaiser Kawero speaker, which also includes a special OEM Raal tweeter. We had our first going public at the RMAF in Denver, where many quoted us as best of the show. Just google.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion about the Eternity speaker:
First:
The boundary conditions were not good for it in such a small room in Denver at the Mariott. But a big ball room was not more available.
Second
The speaker were brand new, finished a couple of days before. See 6moons for the builing process. The process of finetuning is still ongoing I think.
But this speaker is has a potential unheard by the swings. I listened to both; they were neighbours at the show.
My opinion is that some are raving against the Eternity because they will never, never be able to build this by their own.
Regarding the costs where we had a nice calculation from angelo:
Did you ever consider, how many drivers you test and do not take?
At the end when the design and development is finished it is easy to calculate a speaker.
And by the way: If you are the better and cheaper speaker designer, why do you not run a sucessful business and sell a speaker comparable soundwise with the Eternity for half the money?
Regards
Rainer
Dear all,
I´m the designer of the Kaiser Kawero speaker, which also includes a special OEM Raal tweeter. We had our first going public at the RMAF in Denver, where many quoted us as best of the show. Just google.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion about the Eternity speaker:
First:
The boundary conditions were not good for it in such a small room in Denver at the Mariott. But a big ball room was not more available.
Second
The speaker were brand new, finished a couple of days before. See 6moons for the builing process. The process of finetuning is still ongoing I think.
But this speaker is has a potential unheard by the swings. I listened to both; they were neighbours at the show.
My opinion is that some are raving against the Eternity because they will never, never be able to build this by their own.
Regarding the costs where we had a nice calculation from angelo:
Did you ever consider, how many drivers you test and do not take?
At the end when the design and development is finished it is easy to calculate a speaker.
And by the way: If you are the better and cheaper speaker designer, why do you not run a sucessful business and sell a speaker comparable soundwise with the Eternity for half the money?
Regards
Rainer
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