What do you need to satisfy the requirements for OEM?.
One OEM, one point of contact and away we go at the 'right' price.
With the number of people interested at the OEM price, who ever was to be the point of contact might even get their pair for free, theres enough in this for it to work well IMO.
Dont give up so soon.
Shane
One OEM, one point of contact and away we go at the 'right' price.
With the number of people interested at the OEM price, who ever was to be the point of contact might even get their pair for free, theres enough in this for it to work well IMO.
Dont give up so soon.
Shane
flame on
Well,
There are always those that will look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm going to publish an email response that I sent to a DIY member that will address most of the concerns voiced.
On the "Raal Advanced Speakers Price List" it says Wholesale/Dealer/OEM. How is our situation different than wholesale/OEM?
-Well, "we" aren't dealers or an OEM. "We" are a collective of hobbyists. "We" are being accomodated by Alex more than fairly with 25 off.
We are purchasing a large number of them.
-True. Possibly anyway, and the "We" is a collective of individuals, not a single entity. There is a difference.
Is there anyway to get around that deal (only 25% off instead of 56% off).
-None that I am aware of. You could always call Solen and talk to them but I really doubt it. You could always start your own speaker company and your speaker company could buy a number of pieces.
If I personally bought 10 units myself, wouldn't that be wholesale?
-It would be 10 units and up to Alex if he wanted to extend wholesale pricing to you. The general assumption behind being a dealer is recurring purchases, and one client. Supporting DIY in a group buy means MANY one time clients and NO recurring purchases. This means lots of support and no future business for him from us.
Thanks for everyone's interest. If supporting the business decisions of a small manufacturer doesn't make sense that is okay.
C
Well,
There are always those that will look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm going to publish an email response that I sent to a DIY member that will address most of the concerns voiced.
On the "Raal Advanced Speakers Price List" it says Wholesale/Dealer/OEM. How is our situation different than wholesale/OEM?
-Well, "we" aren't dealers or an OEM. "We" are a collective of hobbyists. "We" are being accomodated by Alex more than fairly with 25 off.
We are purchasing a large number of them.
-True. Possibly anyway, and the "We" is a collective of individuals, not a single entity. There is a difference.
Is there anyway to get around that deal (only 25% off instead of 56% off).
-None that I am aware of. You could always call Solen and talk to them but I really doubt it. You could always start your own speaker company and your speaker company could buy a number of pieces.
If I personally bought 10 units myself, wouldn't that be wholesale?
-It would be 10 units and up to Alex if he wanted to extend wholesale pricing to you. The general assumption behind being a dealer is recurring purchases, and one client. Supporting DIY in a group buy means MANY one time clients and NO recurring purchases. This means lots of support and no future business for him from us.
Thanks for everyone's interest. If supporting the business decisions of a small manufacturer doesn't make sense that is okay.
C
Re: flame on
I've spoken for hours to Alex over the phone(he called me every time BTW) and I only bought a pair of 140-15d ribbons from him. So his support is first class and on a completely different level to that offered by the likes of Scanspeak, Seas and 90% of the rest. That goes for the sound too.
The post from thomaseliot is not something I like to see, especially since I think a lot of Alex and his products. Get over it, 25% is more than generous. If you don't like it then please keep your assumptions and personal opinion out of the picture and move on.
chrismercurio said:
I've spoken for hours to Alex over the phone(he called me every time BTW) and I only bought a pair of 140-15d ribbons from him. So his support is first class and on a completely different level to that offered by the likes of Scanspeak, Seas and 90% of the rest. That goes for the sound too.
The post from thomaseliot is not something I like to see, especially since I think a lot of Alex and his products. Get over it, 25% is more than generous. If you don't like it then please keep your assumptions and personal opinion out of the picture and move on.
Thanks!
I appreciate your visible support Shin. I concur with your assertions about the deal, and the level of personalized support Alex provides that do not exist when compared to the likes of the larger OEM's.
I appreciate your visible support Shin. I concur with your assertions about the deal, and the level of personalized support Alex provides that do not exist when compared to the likes of the larger OEM's.
Sorry for the previous post, I was just disappointed for the end of this huge group buy.
The quality of support is a lot more convincing argument than pure market reasons and I can't but agree. Now there is no hurry and I can wait for Lynn Olson advancements in Beyound the Ariel thread.
Regards
P.S.
Of course I deserve this unkindness for the reasons for wich I apologized before, though I was convinced that a forum is the right place where to discuss "assumptions and personal opinions".
The quality of support is a lot more convincing argument than pure market reasons and I can't but agree. Now there is no hurry and I can wait for Lynn Olson advancements in Beyound the Ariel thread.
Regards
P.S.
Of course I deserve this unkindness for the reasons for wich I apologized before, though I was convinced that a forum is the right place where to discuss "assumptions and personal opinions".
Personalities aside...
This is from an earlier post. thomaseliot can maybe organize the one for Italy? Lynn is using the double height 140-15d....and his development cycle has been interesting to watch.
The best way for this to continue is for smaller groups within different countries to organize so that you can have a lower price and not deal with all of the shipping hassles.
Though I won't be purchasing any, I am still happy to organize a US based group buy if anyone is interested in that. Shipping for the whole order will be paid by everyone involved, and it will probably be shipped by boat as Air freight from Serbia is ridiculous!
C
This is from an earlier post. thomaseliot can maybe organize the one for Italy? Lynn is using the double height 140-15d....and his development cycle has been interesting to watch.
The best way for this to continue is for smaller groups within different countries to organize so that you can have a lower price and not deal with all of the shipping hassles.
Though I won't be purchasing any, I am still happy to organize a US based group buy if anyone is interested in that. Shipping for the whole order will be paid by everyone involved, and it will probably be shipped by boat as Air freight from Serbia is ridiculous!
C
It wasn't unkind, it was just frank and to the point which I felt was needed given your post. Nothing personal, just that comments such as those you posted are unfounded bad press for Alex/RAAL. He runs a small business and that means he has to make a living but where he differs from many is that he genuinely cares that your satisfied, even to the point where he'll ring you up and spend hours on the phone running through any issues you have until you are happy.
The RAAL's might seem expensive but consider that every ribbon is hand built by Alex and he really does a great job here. The materials used are top spec and certainly not found in mass produced ribbons such as Aurum Cantus and Founteks. Which brings me to another point; this isn't a mass produced factory orientated product, your paying for a transducer that has been assembled with care and individual inspected by its very designer every step of the way through construction, where else do you get that? This is very rare and frankly he needs to be charging his RRP to make this worth his time and effort. When you consider the product and the service, then its cheap and 25% off is a nice gift from him. I paid RRP and still think I got a bargain.
BTW forums are an excellent place for discussion but lets not knowingly post unfounded information just because you can't get the discount you feel your 'entitled' to. Like I said, I've got a lot of respect for his products and the way he runs his business. Besides this he's a nice guy too.
ShinOBIWAN
The object of discussion is this document posted by Chris:
RAAL price list
Here you read OEM/DEALER = 153€ (50+)
The question was why a diyAudio 50+ group buy couldn't have the OEM price, like in most of group buys.
You and Chris have answered already to the question saying that for diyers it is included a great support, so that for us must be applied the retail price minus 25%
The support plus was not evident from the document, so many of us have asked for explanation (me, I admit, with a bit of disappointment).
Chris
If useful I can organize the group for Italy, though I see only one from Italy in previous posts.
The object of discussion is this document posted by Chris:
RAAL price list
Here you read OEM/DEALER = 153€ (50+)
The question was why a diyAudio 50+ group buy couldn't have the OEM price, like in most of group buys.
You and Chris have answered already to the question saying that for diyers it is included a great support, so that for us must be applied the retail price minus 25%
The support plus was not evident from the document, so many of us have asked for explanation (me, I admit, with a bit of disappointment).
Chris
If useful I can organize the group for Italy, though I see only one from Italy in previous posts.
thomaseliot said:
Hi
Yes I know about the OEM pricing. This isn't an OEM buying the stock though so the group buy doesn't qualify.
That OEM pricing is cheaper for several reasons:
OEM's are consistant and repeat buyers of quantity meaning Alex has a steady source of income from an ongoing contract or agreement. Production costs for him are potentially lowered from larger orders rather than 'made per order' as he does for private individuals.
OEM's have to make a profit so to make it attractive to them the prices from RAAL have to take this into account. There's essentially a middle man involved and he wants his cut but in return he offers RAAL benefits that a private buyer doesn't.
OEM's have a market presence in the country they're based and RAAL is being distributed here with much more ease than buying direct from Alex in Serbia. Its serving RAAL's interest to make the product attractive to them and get it stocked and out there. Market Presence of any product is essential.
OEM's are essentially advertising the product and promoting it in an indirect way. This is important for any company.
OEM's support the product and deal with defects and repairs under warranty meaning RAAL figures this into the price making it cheaper.
Now a casual DIY'er, despite however many of you their are in a group buy, potentially fulfils only one of these and that's the promotion of the item by word of mouth of advertising.
Alex also has to be seen to be consistent and not alienate OEM's, who are predominately his bread and butter, by offering private individual comparable rates that they get. That's a priviledge of being an OEM and being able to offer RAAL some large benefits in return.
25% is very reasonable from Alex, he's not a greedy man but he is very realistic about the market he's operating in and fully intends RAAL to be a success. I'd be happy with 25% and build a kickass loudspeaker knowing you got it a good bit cheaper than the next guy.
EDIT: Useless grammer and spelling fixed. Its now merely bad.
I think Pinky
wanted you to fix the spelling of "grammer".
Thanks for otherwise articulate post on why a DIY collective is NOT an OEM. I addressed it in a much more concise way hoping that it would be adequate.
C
wanted you to fix the spelling of "grammer".
Thanks for otherwise articulate post on why a DIY collective is NOT an OEM. I addressed it in a much more concise way hoping that it would be adequate.
C
Their 70-20XR looks to be a very versatile ribbon. Unfortunately only available to signed OEM.
"World’s smallest form factor for a true ribbon of just 1.8 kHz cutoff frequency, reliable, able to handle a lot of power, sounding like it doesn’t exist... All that by using only one series capacitor as a complete L-R 4th order crossover at 1.8k, combining acoustical and electrical slopes, with minimum of added passive crossover components."
Sorry.. a bit off topic but it looks like what I've been looking for. A ribbon to match with 18W 8531g, in a 2 way and able to cross low.
"World’s smallest form factor for a true ribbon of just 1.8 kHz cutoff frequency, reliable, able to handle a lot of power, sounding like it doesn’t exist... All that by using only one series capacitor as a complete L-R 4th order crossover at 1.8k, combining acoustical and electrical slopes, with minimum of added passive crossover components."
Sorry.. a bit off topic but it looks like what I've been looking for. A ribbon to match with 18W 8531g, in a 2 way and able to cross low.
If we can get more than 4 people interested in pairs from Australia (Volvo-Victim, I am in also in Adelaide), theres absolutely no reason why we cant push through 10pcs at OEM price legitimately (ABN and business reg.) We could watch Lynns thread develop to a point of commitment and then move forward as a small group. Volvo-Victim, if you're in.. we need just three more.. any takers?.
Shane Ceglar
Adelaide
Shane Ceglar
Adelaide
I'm interested from Australia, But only for the 140-15D because I need the efficiency.
I'll be able to purchase about December but I fully expect we'll take at least that long to get our act together. I'm in WA.
For interest mine (to begin with) will be mated with EnABLed Fostex FE207E with active 4th order XO and modified Trends TA10.1 amps. Cabinets undecided, maybe MJK's ML-TL, Frugal spawn Chang or Ron's Dallas II.
I do agree with the previous arguments about DIYers not being genuine OEM purchasers but I'm sure an Australian speaker dealer may be able to help us out with zero markup for the first batch so they can get their hands on a pair for assessment.
Pinging COEM Audio! Are you reading this?
I'll be able to purchase about December but I fully expect we'll take at least that long to get our act together. I'm in WA.
For interest mine (to begin with) will be mated with EnABLed Fostex FE207E with active 4th order XO and modified Trends TA10.1 amps. Cabinets undecided, maybe MJK's ML-TL, Frugal spawn Chang or Ron's Dallas II.
I do agree with the previous arguments about DIYers not being genuine OEM purchasers but I'm sure an Australian speaker dealer may be able to help us out with zero markup for the first batch so they can get their hands on a pair for assessment.
Pinging COEM Audio! Are you reading this?
Hello,
25% off regular price is not a good price for me.
I don't really need the RAAL ribbon, but the 169 Euro price was a good deal, for future projects.
25% off is not good anymore, because if you consider shipping + taxes you ray a lot more than regular price in shop (import inside the EU).
If we consider the suggested price for a pair = 770 Eur - 192,5 discount = 577,5 Eur
add something like 50 Eur shipping = 627,5
add 5% customs 31,4 Eur = 659 Eur
add 20% taxes = 132 Eur
Total = 791 Eur.
25% off regular price is not a good price for me.
I don't really need the RAAL ribbon, but the 169 Euro price was a good deal, for future projects.
25% off is not good anymore, because if you consider shipping + taxes you ray a lot more than regular price in shop (import inside the EU).
If we consider the suggested price for a pair = 770 Eur - 192,5 discount = 577,5 Eur
add something like 50 Eur shipping = 627,5
add 5% customs 31,4 Eur = 659 Eur
add 20% taxes = 132 Eur
Total = 791 Eur.
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