Hello,
I have a question regarding the throat flare rate, there are several topics on the drivers, but I do not find an answer on the choice of the output angle.
In the book "Acoustics" Leo Beranek, he talks about the best ratio between membrane surface and exit hole.
In EV notes, the mismatch between horn and driver, I tried to search the internet, but there is not much literature on the subject.
In practice, I use the R-H ssd5600 drivers with for now, the horn associated cbh 250-6.
These drivers have a half exit angle of 6.9 ° degree.
I simulated the horn with hornresp,
the curves provided by the software are similar with R-H datasheet.
I want to make a horn larger, but if I keep the angle of the first part of the horn (S2), more or less similar as the cbh 250-6, for this match, the exit throat, even with a horn that is 50 centimeters longer,
there's always that same fall, the low frequencies.
Apparently if I want a very flat curve, I have to reduce the half angle at about 2.2 ° degree.
The QUESTION is: what is a mistake to want to change the angle of the phasing plug, suitable for the horn,
What kinds of problems could sustain, resonance, yield loss.
Any of you would have done tests in this direction?
Best Regards
Stefano
I have a question regarding the throat flare rate, there are several topics on the drivers, but I do not find an answer on the choice of the output angle.
In the book "Acoustics" Leo Beranek, he talks about the best ratio between membrane surface and exit hole.
In EV notes, the mismatch between horn and driver, I tried to search the internet, but there is not much literature on the subject.
In practice, I use the R-H ssd5600 drivers with for now, the horn associated cbh 250-6.
These drivers have a half exit angle of 6.9 ° degree.
I simulated the horn with hornresp,
the curves provided by the software are similar with R-H datasheet.
I want to make a horn larger, but if I keep the angle of the first part of the horn (S2), more or less similar as the cbh 250-6, for this match, the exit throat, even with a horn that is 50 centimeters longer,
there's always that same fall, the low frequencies.
Apparently if I want a very flat curve, I have to reduce the half angle at about 2.2 ° degree.
The QUESTION is: what is a mistake to want to change the angle of the phasing plug, suitable for the horn,
What kinds of problems could sustain, resonance, yield loss.
Any of you would have done tests in this direction?
Best Regards
Stefano
Attachments
hornresp
Hello,
Some images and data of the simulated horn,
I do not know if the T-S are ok, because there is very little data for the driver to hand BL, Sd, Re, Le, which are measured.
The volume of the cavity is increased to 0.7 liters with a spacer, removing it, I have the original volume of 397cc.
The curve is not great, but listening in real life, this all sounds extremely well, with incredible physical presence in the lower midrange.
Brg
Stefano
Hello,
Some images and data of the simulated horn,
I do not know if the T-S are ok, because there is very little data for the driver to hand BL, Sd, Re, Le, which are measured.
The volume of the cavity is increased to 0.7 liters with a spacer, removing it, I have the original volume of 397cc.
The curve is not great, but listening in real life, this all sounds extremely well, with incredible physical presence in the lower midrange.
Brg
Stefano
Attachments
really amazing
Hello,
I dug up my thread because I still find wonder nobody is interested in this kind of big driver, and not specifically to the questions I asked, because I found enough documentation, online.
These drivers do not run the streets, it is the Formula 1 of the low mid, among the three US companies that I know, and that is, Emilar, Renkus Heinz, and Community,
there are only the latest product that yet.
I do not keep account of the famous Japanese driver because it uses smaller diameter membranes, and I find them a bit optimistic data from the three named above.
Here, nothing exotic, a ferrite magnet, an aluminum membrane, a large clearance, an energy in the low mid that can not be reproduced by the usual 2-inch or 1 inch.
I think they are missing the market for a matter of too high production cost, compared to a current driver cone, it is a choice of the audio industry, but I could be wrong.
Best Regards
Hello,
I dug up my thread because I still find wonder nobody is interested in this kind of big driver, and not specifically to the questions I asked, because I found enough documentation, online.
These drivers do not run the streets, it is the Formula 1 of the low mid, among the three US companies that I know, and that is, Emilar, Renkus Heinz, and Community,
there are only the latest product that yet.
I do not keep account of the famous Japanese driver because it uses smaller diameter membranes, and I find them a bit optimistic data from the three named above.
Here, nothing exotic, a ferrite magnet, an aluminum membrane, a large clearance, an energy in the low mid that can not be reproduced by the usual 2-inch or 1 inch.
I think they are missing the market for a matter of too high production cost, compared to a current driver cone, it is a choice of the audio industry, but I could be wrong.
Best Regards
Bonjour,Hello,
Finally a connoisseur who is interested in these beautiful driver.
Absolutely, I still use them, in my ears these are excellent drivers, I also use the ssd3301 in hi-mid, for now I have not yet made the back cover for these drivers, but it will come soon.
It is important to remake the rear cover if they are used in coaxial, because they are not thick enough, with the power of the ssd5600, the one that is in front emits sound, even disconnected, so this disturbs the sound signal.
In fact I use the complete system called "Coax 60", I dampened the aluminum horn, because it tended to sing too much.
The other problem with these drivers is the inaccuracy of the gap which varies from 1mm. at 1.1mm, which means that the interchangeability of the membranes is very difficult despite the centering pins, I have 3 ssd5600 and 4 membranes.
The other particularity, these membranes are formed manually, made to the "stamp", tampon in french, must be artist to realize them, much like the Cubans who roll the cigars under the armpit.
Regards,
Stefano
Finally a connoisseur who is interested in these beautiful driver.
Absolutely, I still use them, in my ears these are excellent drivers, I also use the ssd3301 in hi-mid, for now I have not yet made the back cover for these drivers, but it will come soon.
It is important to remake the rear cover if they are used in coaxial, because they are not thick enough, with the power of the ssd5600, the one that is in front emits sound, even disconnected, so this disturbs the sound signal.
In fact I use the complete system called "Coax 60", I dampened the aluminum horn, because it tended to sing too much.
The other problem with these drivers is the inaccuracy of the gap which varies from 1mm. at 1.1mm, which means that the interchangeability of the membranes is very difficult despite the centering pins, I have 3 ssd5600 and 4 membranes.
The other particularity, these membranes are formed manually, made to the "stamp", tampon in french, must be artist to realize them, much like the Cubans who roll the cigars under the armpit.
Regards,
Stefano
Hello Stephano
Very select club of two, Hope some others will join (;-).
I will get mine end of year as they are abroad but am trying to collect some data in the meantime which does not seem that easy.
If you have some informations to share I will be grateful. Also did you measure the SSD 5600 ?
What woofer are you using below and what are crossover frequencies ?
Ciao
Jean-Louis
Very select club of two, Hope some others will join (;-).
I will get mine end of year as they are abroad but am trying to collect some data in the meantime which does not seem that easy.
If you have some informations to share I will be grateful. Also did you measure the SSD 5600 ?
What woofer are you using below and what are crossover frequencies ?
Ciao
Jean-Louis
Last edited:
renkus HEINZ ssd 5600
Good evening everyone ,
I also watch this forum, your remarks are very valuable, I have three new SSD 5600 (two are still in boxes) two CBH 6 and soon CBH 9 pavilions in addition. I bought these drivers to realize a coaxial system with SSD 3300 or 3301 that I still miss ...
for information, I tested the versions 1 "(1800 & 1801) the sound of the 1800 seems more sweet and pleasant to mess ears although in theory the frequency response curve is limited to 16000 hz ...
only a few tests done very quickly with the 5600 for now, they are impressive!
thank you kindly apologize for this text may not be very understandable.
good evening, see you !
---- YOU ARE NOT ALONE-----
Good evening everyone ,
I also watch this forum, your remarks are very valuable, I have three new SSD 5600 (two are still in boxes) two CBH 6 and soon CBH 9 pavilions in addition. I bought these drivers to realize a coaxial system with SSD 3300 or 3301 that I still miss ...
for information, I tested the versions 1 "(1800 & 1801) the sound of the 1800 seems more sweet and pleasant to mess ears although in theory the frequency response curve is limited to 16000 hz ...
only a few tests done very quickly with the 5600 for now, they are impressive!
thank you kindly apologize for this text may not be very understandable.
good evening, see you !
---- YOU ARE NOT ALONE-----
Hello JLOP, el castor,
You have here the datasheet of the ssd5600, I do not know if you have already measured the RDC, it is given for 5ohm, but i think that Renkus-Heinz had to do two series of membrane, I have three that make 3.8 ohm, one to 4.65 ohm.
They also have a different inductance, measured with a bridge meter, those of 3.8 ohm make 141 uH, and that of 4.65 ohm makes 169 uH, at 1 khz, they have a similar inductance, between 282 and 300 uH.
I sent a message to Renkus-Heinz about the membranes, they did not respond, I may have addressed the wrong person.
I had made a measurement with Arta of the impedance driver alone, even if that tells you nothing without a graph, it is relatively flat.
I can not put both catalogs (full line 1985 and 1989) in pdf because they weigh too much.
Anyway, you find them in FTP on their site, otherwise I can send them via email.
Regards,
Stefano
You have here the datasheet of the ssd5600, I do not know if you have already measured the RDC, it is given for 5ohm, but i think that Renkus-Heinz had to do two series of membrane, I have three that make 3.8 ohm, one to 4.65 ohm.
They also have a different inductance, measured with a bridge meter, those of 3.8 ohm make 141 uH, and that of 4.65 ohm makes 169 uH, at 1 khz, they have a similar inductance, between 282 and 300 uH.
I sent a message to Renkus-Heinz about the membranes, they did not respond, I may have addressed the wrong person.
I had made a measurement with Arta of the impedance driver alone, even if that tells you nothing without a graph, it is relatively flat.
I can not put both catalogs (full line 1985 and 1989) in pdf because they weigh too much.
Anyway, you find them in FTP on their site, otherwise I can send them via email.
Regards,
Stefano
Hi El Castor,
Do you mean that 1800 is more pleasant than 1801 or than 3300 ?
In the meantime I found 89 catalog with the coax assembly. I wonder how will the 5600 behave / measure with a compression driver just in the front (I am used to Tannoy's coaxial)
BR
Hi Stefano
The aluminium horn is the 3301, right ? How do you intend to rework the back cover, with a lathe ?
Any measurement of the whole thing ?
BR
Jean-Louis
Yes, with a lathe, I just take the dimensional measures, I draw it and I give it to do.
For the back cover, I will do it in aluminum like the others.
It took 24 kg. aluminum for these two large rear cover, they weigh 3.8kg. each.
It will take much less for the 2 inches.
I have all it takes to measure them, but I have not yet done so.
What I can say about the ssd3301, it goes very well but it needs a tweeter.
Regards,
Stefano
For the back cover, I will do it in aluminum like the others.
It took 24 kg. aluminum for these two large rear cover, they weigh 3.8kg. each.
It will take much less for the 2 inches.
I have all it takes to measure them, but I have not yet done so.
What I can say about the ssd3301, it goes very well but it needs a tweeter.
Regards,
Stefano
yes of course I meant aluminium horn for 3001 driver. On an altec 604 coax driver some guys replaced aluminium by wooden horn with benefits.
BR
Hello JLOP,
you think you use what kind of horn for the ssd5600 , your drivers are new or used , 3.8 ohm or more?
The horn I had, was part of the sale, in a word the complete coax 60 system, I went to buy them in Germany, there were 12 pairs, their purpose was to sell them, but they did know not this hardware, I think these systems have been used outdoors, all the drivers fitted with IP65 rear cover, I had the good idea to ask them to see the state of the membranes, I open the first driver, membrane breakthrough, it was a tiny hole, I showed them, they trusted me, I was able to open them all and choose the best pair.
I have no other horn to compare, listening, the CBH 250-6, the sound is not projected, it is not tiring and natural.
It is true, the horn in alu is a real bell, it tended to do too much, once muted, it goes better, there is a clear difference.
Regards,
Stefano
you think you use what kind of horn for the ssd5600 , your drivers are new or used , 3.8 ohm or more?
The horn I had, was part of the sale, in a word the complete coax 60 system, I went to buy them in Germany, there were 12 pairs, their purpose was to sell them, but they did know not this hardware, I think these systems have been used outdoors, all the drivers fitted with IP65 rear cover, I had the good idea to ask them to see the state of the membranes, I open the first driver, membrane breakthrough, it was a tiny hole, I showed them, they trusted me, I was able to open them all and choose the best pair.
I have no other horn to compare, listening, the CBH 250-6, the sound is not projected, it is not tiring and natural.
It is true, the horn in alu is a real bell, it tended to do too much, once muted, it goes better, there is a clear difference.
Regards,
Stefano
Hello el castor,
j'avais pas fait gaffe à vôtre provenance près de Parisse,
it is still incredible to come and talk about driver made in USA by people who only speak French on an international forum, yet I am not nostalgic for aging, apart from that, we also find an oem version that s' calls "Rauland sdf 240".
What I like with these drivers, if you have the option of installing them in your home, is the affordable price, then you have to improve them, if you think you can do it, but the quality of the membrane is there.
Before using these drivers, I used 2 inches which obviously were not cut as low as these, there is no comparison possible for low mid.
An interesting white paper is that of community audio (Pat Brown, community M4).
Regards
j'avais pas fait gaffe à vôtre provenance près de Parisse,
it is still incredible to come and talk about driver made in USA by people who only speak French on an international forum, yet I am not nostalgic for aging, apart from that, we also find an oem version that s' calls "Rauland sdf 240".
What I like with these drivers, if you have the option of installing them in your home, is the affordable price, then you have to improve them, if you think you can do it, but the quality of the membrane is there.
Before using these drivers, I used 2 inches which obviously were not cut as low as these, there is no comparison possible for low mid.
An interesting white paper is that of community audio (Pat Brown, community M4).
Regards
Hi Stefano
The drivers are used but they are still overseas until December, I bought them from a fellow at Melaudia forum. CBH 250-6, maybe I will build a prototype to check if I like the sound of CD horns, otherwise I may go to a classical exponential horn.
BR
Jean-Louis