Output Coils
The camera isn't working, but the scanner is.
So here is an image of the JW Miller coil as compared to the stock coil on the Sonic Board.
You'll see the toroid on the right, stock coil in the center, stock coil uncovered on the right.
Hope that helps.
Oh yes, you will have to enlarge the holes in the PCB slightly to get the new coil leads in.
The camera isn't working, but the scanner is.
So here is an image of the JW Miller coil as compared to the stock coil on the Sonic Board.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You'll see the toroid on the right, stock coil in the center, stock coil uncovered on the right.
Hope that helps.
Oh yes, you will have to enlarge the holes in the PCB slightly to get the new coil leads in.
Re: Output Coils
Hmm.. Or thin the leads on the coils 😉
Have you seen this?:
http://www.41hz.com/main.aspx?pageID=105
They're taking all the fun out of modding the SI's!
(Just kidding.. Seems like a good deal to me -- pay the price of a SI for a better design from the getgo).
I had planned on buying some more SI's for modding fun, but at this point I think I'll pick up the 41hz boards and just make something better from the start 😀
panomaniac said:The camera isn't working, but the scanner is.
So here is an image of the JW Miller coil as compared to the stock coil on the Sonic Board.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You'll see the toroid on the right, stock coil in the center, stock coil uncovered on the right.
Hope that helps.
Oh yes, you will have to enlarge the holes in the PCB slightly to get the new coil leads in.
Hmm.. Or thin the leads on the coils 😉
Have you seen this?:
http://www.41hz.com/main.aspx?pageID=105
They're taking all the fun out of modding the SI's!
(Just kidding.. Seems like a good deal to me -- pay the price of a SI for a better design from the getgo).
I had planned on buying some more SI's for modding fun, but at this point I think I'll pick up the 41hz boards and just make something better from the start 😀
Yup, and I've got a few 41Hz boards on the way.
I'll be posting as soon as they get up and running.
I'll be posting as soon as they get up and running.
Re:Blackgate Caps
I just installed a pair of Black Gate NX Hi-Q 22uf 6.3 volt caps in one of my SI's in place of the Panasonic 2.2 uf X5R ceramics from a previous installation and, although I haven't listened for long, I believe the improvements to be substantial. On the positive side, there is an overall smoother presentation, better imaging and the bass is tighter and more pronounced. The Panasonics provided a big improvement over the stock caps in the bass response, but I'd say that the the BG's are a clear winner overall. On the negative side, on power- up there is an ear- splitting screech that sounds like a phaser blast or a cat being strangled. It is definitely not the" pop" that others have described. With my Energy Veritas 2.2's ( 89 db) the only way to avoid this potentially damaging cacophony is to unplug the speaker wires before power - up. Soldering to the pads was fairly easy, I bent the leads 90 degrees and installed the caps parallel to the board and glued them to the edge. It is a tight fit into the stock case, and glued or not, breaking them off would be fairly easy if not careful. I also have on hand a few BG 4.7 uf 50v N series caps that I plan to try on another board, but they will have to be damn good to top the Hi-Q's. They may reduce the screech to a pop however. I am running the SI with stock volume pot wide open, controlled with my Bryston BP25 and the more I listen,( I've got Patricia Barber's "Modern Cool" SACD playing as I peck away at the keyboard ) the more I like the results. The source is a stock Sony DVP S9000 ES. If anyone else has tried the BG's ( N or HI -Q ) I would like to hear your impressions.
I just installed a pair of Black Gate NX Hi-Q 22uf 6.3 volt caps in one of my SI's in place of the Panasonic 2.2 uf X5R ceramics from a previous installation and, although I haven't listened for long, I believe the improvements to be substantial. On the positive side, there is an overall smoother presentation, better imaging and the bass is tighter and more pronounced. The Panasonics provided a big improvement over the stock caps in the bass response, but I'd say that the the BG's are a clear winner overall. On the negative side, on power- up there is an ear- splitting screech that sounds like a phaser blast or a cat being strangled. It is definitely not the" pop" that others have described. With my Energy Veritas 2.2's ( 89 db) the only way to avoid this potentially damaging cacophony is to unplug the speaker wires before power - up. Soldering to the pads was fairly easy, I bent the leads 90 degrees and installed the caps parallel to the board and glued them to the edge. It is a tight fit into the stock case, and glued or not, breaking them off would be fairly easy if not careful. I also have on hand a few BG 4.7 uf 50v N series caps that I plan to try on another board, but they will have to be damn good to top the Hi-Q's. They may reduce the screech to a pop however. I am running the SI with stock volume pot wide open, controlled with my Bryston BP25 and the more I listen,( I've got Patricia Barber's "Modern Cool" SACD playing as I peck away at the keyboard ) the more I like the results. The source is a stock Sony DVP S9000 ES. If anyone else has tried the BG's ( N or HI -Q ) I would like to hear your impressions.
Re: Re:Blackgate Caps
That is kind of what I suspected. Changing from 4.7 ufd to 2.2 ufd reduced the turn on pop a lot. I think it just takes longer for the charge cap to polarize a larger coupling cap.
I want to try the 22 ufd BG, but my speakers will not handle it. Guess maybe next is a 2.2 film cap for the next ones.
George
Jumpin John said:
That is kind of what I suspected. Changing from 4.7 ufd to 2.2 ufd reduced the turn on pop a lot. I think it just takes longer for the charge cap to polarize a larger coupling cap.
I want to try the 22 ufd BG, but my speakers will not handle it. Guess maybe next is a 2.2 film cap for the next ones.
George
Re: Re: Re:Blackgate Caps
I also picked up some 2.2uf 50 v BG PK's with my order from Parts Connexion but I'm not sure how good they will be. I think that they are a variation of the BG Standard, and sell for only $.75 a pop. On my other SI's, I'm going to run a lead from the pads and glue it to the edge of the board. It should be easy to swap caps in and out without continually messing with those crappy pads. If I get a chance today, I will try both the 4.7N'S and the 2.2PK's to see what works the best. It would be nice if the 2024 could be muted though, the 22uf Hi-Q's sound great if your speakers survive the power- up. George, do you have a source for the foil Seimens Cap? They might work if not connected directly to the pads.
Panelhead said:
I also picked up some 2.2uf 50 v BG PK's with my order from Parts Connexion but I'm not sure how good they will be. I think that they are a variation of the BG Standard, and sell for only $.75 a pop. On my other SI's, I'm going to run a lead from the pads and glue it to the edge of the board. It should be easy to swap caps in and out without continually messing with those crappy pads. If I get a chance today, I will try both the 4.7N'S and the 2.2PK's to see what works the best. It would be nice if the 2024 could be muted though, the 22uf Hi-Q's sound great if your speakers survive the power- up. George, do you have a source for the foil Seimens Cap? They might work if not connected directly to the pads.
Re: Re: Re: Re:Blackgate Caps
Email your address. The 2.2 ufd 100 volt are a dollar each locally and the 1 ufd are 25 cents. They are smaller than most other film and are stacked film and foil. Not metalized film.
I may try that also, running a wire to a connection. Hate to bypass everything on board.
George
Jumpin John said:
Email your address. The 2.2 ufd 100 volt are a dollar each locally and the 1 ufd are 25 cents. They are smaller than most other film and are stacked film and foil. Not metalized film.
I may try that also, running a wire to a connection. Hate to bypass everything on board.
George
Hi All,
As an aside, I was using cheap Radio Shack non-polar electrolytic 4.7uF caps in my input circuit, in series with cheap RS 22k resistors.
I then replaced the input circuit with 22k metal oxides and 3.0 uF Solen Poly caps (wasn't ready to go Auricap just yet). I also managed to fry my board in the process, and for the life of me can't figure out how. No solder splatter, no soldering on the board (I have a second external board for the input circuits). My best guess is that the wrapping wire I used to connect to the SI board somehow shorted when I reapplied power ( the exposed wire length at the board end was very short, however...).
Anyway, I re-installed the new caps and resistors on my second SI, which was identically set up. I found I had clearly smoother midrange and upper bass with the new caps, resistors, and board. Unfortunately, it's not a valid finding since I switched amp boards too, but I suspect using large audio-grade poly/foil caps on the input circuit is the way to go IF you have the room for them.
Also, there was a noticably quieter power-up pop with the 3.0 vs the 4.7. The pop accompanying the 4.7 is about as loud as I'd want to go with efficient speakers.
- Rich
As an aside, I was using cheap Radio Shack non-polar electrolytic 4.7uF caps in my input circuit, in series with cheap RS 22k resistors.
I then replaced the input circuit with 22k metal oxides and 3.0 uF Solen Poly caps (wasn't ready to go Auricap just yet). I also managed to fry my board in the process, and for the life of me can't figure out how. No solder splatter, no soldering on the board (I have a second external board for the input circuits). My best guess is that the wrapping wire I used to connect to the SI board somehow shorted when I reapplied power ( the exposed wire length at the board end was very short, however...).
Anyway, I re-installed the new caps and resistors on my second SI, which was identically set up. I found I had clearly smoother midrange and upper bass with the new caps, resistors, and board. Unfortunately, it's not a valid finding since I switched amp boards too, but I suspect using large audio-grade poly/foil caps on the input circuit is the way to go IF you have the room for them.
Also, there was a noticably quieter power-up pop with the 3.0 vs the 4.7. The pop accompanying the 4.7 is about as loud as I'd want to go with efficient speakers.
- Rich
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:Blackgate Caps
Thanks George, I'll do that and swap you some of my Pk's. I ran some leads from the pads on my unmolested SI and it worked quite well. Just glued them down at the edge of the board and they seem quite secure. I tried both the 4.7 uh N's and the 2.2uh PK's and am happy to report that there were none of the" ray gun" sound effects associated with the 22uh HI-Q's. The 4.7N's gave a small pop but nothing that would damage my 89db speakers. The sound quality, as far as I could detect, was quite similiar to the HI-Q's. The PK's produced a very slight tic on power-up and were competetive with the other two. The bass is almost as good but I think the bigger caps are better on vocal clarity and produce a little more depth and air. I think the PK's are superior to the X5R's in all aspects, are good value at $.75 each and are the same size as the HI-Q's.
Panelhead said:
Thanks George, I'll do that and swap you some of my Pk's. I ran some leads from the pads on my unmolested SI and it worked quite well. Just glued them down at the edge of the board and they seem quite secure. I tried both the 4.7 uh N's and the 2.2uh PK's and am happy to report that there were none of the" ray gun" sound effects associated with the 22uh HI-Q's. The 4.7N's gave a small pop but nothing that would damage my 89db speakers. The sound quality, as far as I could detect, was quite similiar to the HI-Q's. The PK's produced a very slight tic on power-up and were competetive with the other two. The bass is almost as good but I think the bigger caps are better on vocal clarity and produce a little more depth and air. I think the PK's are superior to the X5R's in all aspects, are good value at $.75 each and are the same size as the HI-Q's.
This is pretty cool. I'm glad everyone is getting their hands dirty with this stuff, and that the results are promising. I'm still waiting for my BG's to arrive so I can mod my last SI... After that, I'm going with the 41hz boards 😉
Perhaps we need to find a way to mute the output at turnon. I thought about a cap at the mute pin, but I don't think that'll work (I may have posted this elsewhere, can't remember right now). Does anyone else have any ideas on it?
I'm wondering what's causing the pop.. Is the the bias from the TA2024 charging the cap? Or is the cap discharging DC?
Mike
Perhaps we need to find a way to mute the output at turnon. I thought about a cap at the mute pin, but I don't think that'll work (I may have posted this elsewhere, can't remember right now). Does anyone else have any ideas on it?
I'm wondering what's causing the pop.. Is the the bias from the TA2024 charging the cap? Or is the cap discharging DC?
Mike
Hi shelt,
can you email me a bigger pics. of your SI Mod.? The one on the threat is a little small. Thanks!
tetrafuran@yahoo.com
motherone said:
The two separate sound bursts produced by the 22uh HI-Q's sounded like a cap charging to me. There was a split second lag time between the start of the two and the sound grew louder before it disappeared. This all happened in a fraction of a second and I only powered up twice with the speakers connected. The pop created by the 4.7N's was not a concern with my speakers. The pin description for the mute on the TA2024 data sheet says as follows; "When set to logic high, both amplifiers are muted and in idle mode. When low(grounded), both amplifiers are fully operational.If left floating, the device stays in mute mode.The pin should be tied to ground if not in use". No idea what floating means but, I wonder if it might be as simple as connecting a switch between pin 12 and ground? That might be an excellent way to fry another chip though. Any volunteers?
The switch is the easy way to do it. I don't think that would be too hard. I was hoping more for a timed circuit with a 5 second delay. I think with some of the national chips, you can just throw a cap on the mute pin to give it a "soft start" and prevent turn on thumps. It's too bad you can't do that with the Tripath chips (as far as I know).
motherone said:
If the switch would work well enough to eliminate the driver -eating start-up noise from the 22uf HI- Q cap, I would leave it in place. It is connected directly to the pads and glued down to the board, also,I really like the sonics with that cap. A soft start would be nice if someone could figure out the logistics. My Bryston BP25 preamp starts muted. There is some kind of contact in there that breaks the circuit when power is shut off. A click from inside the chassis can be heard when the spring - loaded mute switch is depressed. I don't want to take it apart due to the 20 year warranty. It would be nice to have that kind of feature on the SI to eliminate potentially forgetting to throw the switch when shutting down or starting up. I think that I will practice on my dead board before tackling the real thing and I have to find some cheap speakers to try the finished product on, I don't want to ruin my Veritas 2.2's.
Jumpin John said:
A soft-start relay on the speaker outputs could be done. Otherwise, we could do it like all the tubies do -- just put a switch on the speaker outputs (or the mute pin) and mute the amp at start up, give it a sec for the cap to charge, then flip the switch.
motherone said:
A switch on the speaker outputs sounds like the easiest method. Would it be feasible to use a double pole switch breaking both positive wires between the board and binding posts? The mute pin looks to be a bit of a challenge as the contact would have to be broken and resoldered. I tried my continuity tester on pin 12 and it appears that it is not tied directly to ground but to C5, and both ends of C5 show contact with ground.I must be missing something.
So why do you guys feel the need for an input cap larger than 2.2uF? What do you think it adds, other than a bigger turn on thump?
panomaniac said:
I don't think it'll add much. I think it comes down more to parts availability. The smallest BG-N's I could find were 1uF followed by 4.7uF, and the Hi-Q's were at .1uF followed by 22uF!
Mike
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