Tomar said:In response 3.8 are spacial wersion 18W8535 only for pro-ac with nominal impedance 15ohm. Soo we most to project our version crossover. Clone 3.8 never be the same like the oryginal response 3.8
of course:we know it.
why don't you give us the drivers offset?,we need this first before re-project the crossover.
do you have the change to know them?
My understanding is that the chinese cloners did a 'group buy' of drivers from SS which were the same as the originals supplied to proac , with the only difference being the width of the basket on the front surface where the mounting holes are , and the 'proac' embosing on the basket . So electrically / audio should be same....see the previous photos.....the crossover I posted is the one they used with the 'correct' drivers.
I thought they were 11ohms but I could be wrong , maybe 15 is correct ??
So , if we can get hold of the 8531 drivers with the correct markings "customised driver unit 31470-264" it should sound the same. I don't know the T/S specs for this custom driver.
If we use 8535 then we have to mod crossover and won't get the same sound either way......
I thought they were 11ohms but I could be wrong , maybe 15 is correct ??
So , if we can get hold of the 8531 drivers with the correct markings "customised driver unit 31470-264" it should sound the same. I don't know the T/S specs for this custom driver.
If we use 8535 then we have to mod crossover and won't get the same sound either way......
Oh boy,
If we have to go into all this trouble of searching for
a) 11 ohm drivers (or was that 15?)
b) redesigning a crossover to suit the publicly available 8535-00
This is starting to sound like a significant amount of work. Don't want to poop on the thread, but is the Response 3.8 clone really worth all this trouble?
If we have to go into all this trouble of searching for
a) 11 ohm drivers (or was that 15?)
b) redesigning a crossover to suit the publicly available 8535-00
This is starting to sound like a significant amount of work. Don't want to poop on the thread, but is the Response 3.8 clone really worth all this trouble?
But , But , I like them........
p.s - This looks familiar----
http://www.nelsonaudio.cn/english/i_revelator.htm
p.s - This looks familiar----
http://www.nelsonaudio.cn/english/i_revelator.htm
Hello,
I'm making a pair of proc 3.8 too.
I've read that the first problem is the crossover....
I'm going to test your projects in a simulation program of circuits (orcad pspice) and I will say you something.....
Anybody have finish a pair and listen to it?
Anybody know what is the original crossover of Proac?
thanks!!
I'm making a pair of proc 3.8 too.
I've read that the first problem is the crossover....
I'm going to test your projects in a simulation program of circuits (orcad pspice) and I will say you something.....
Anybody have finish a pair and listen to it?
Anybody know what is the original crossover of Proac?
thanks!!
Just one or two quick points that may or may not be relevant.
I have pulled apart about 10 pairs of proacs in the past, the xover schematic is well done by now, but from my experience it looks about right.
as for the tweeter offset, proac align the CENTRE of the tweeter, with the voice coil on the woofer. I am pretty sure its at the inner edge of the woofer VC.
Another point is, that I have heard proac r3.8s are in 2 sections internally. Hence the upper and lower port possibly. I don't know if the photos shown were chinese ones or genuine ones, so disregard if they were genuine.
Also, proac use 1 or 2 layers of bitumen damping pads on side walls, making them heavy and inert, he also uses a light fill of some non special fibre. cabling is either prosonic or similar thick copper stranded.
upper woofer will be very similar to the 8535, I was pretty sure the lower one would've been the 8545, but is it confirmed both are indentical?
Its basically a response 2.5 with extra woofer.
The same formula has been applied to proacs later speakers, ie same type of xovers, stewart tyler, to my knowledge, does not know a huge amount, just uses 1 crossover to plug in, and tune very slightly to taste, hence all the xovers being virtually identical.
And the drivers are almost always seas and scanspeak.
I have a theory that he doesn't even design them, and the xover he uses to tweak was taken from elsewhere.
Finally, his taste in sound is boosted bass, mid is recessed, and treble again comes up a bit, the classic smile response, a la fletcher munsen, someitmes, the mid is a bit too soft, and the bass too much. His hearing may be going, as his latest speakers are getting brighter and brighter.
I may be wrong, but that's the conclusion based upon multiple analyses. He has built his business on virtually 1 crossover, and just revisions of drivers, mainly from seas. Hence them all sounding pretty good, consistent and similar.
I possess the xover to the big response 4 but no scanner, and the cabinet is odd, but I don't have that.
He has gone out of his way to stop people finding this sort of thing out, perhaps even the custom drivers and wrong way around xover, along with on some, 25mm and 18mm panels, but that sort of thing will only confuse people who don't know, professionals will of course see right through this, and I bet he one the one hand is flattered by imitation, and rather irritated to say the least by it. He doesn't even publish xover freqs. that's how secretive, so this will annoy him immensely I guess.
But the more secretive you are, the more curious people will be, its just asking for someone to pull it apart to see the secrets.
For the retail price, consumers have a right to know more info than given, and for $30,000 plus for the top model when its costing $3-5k at most to make, I would say not veneering the back is pure cheapskate and insulting.
I have pulled apart about 10 pairs of proacs in the past, the xover schematic is well done by now, but from my experience it looks about right.
as for the tweeter offset, proac align the CENTRE of the tweeter, with the voice coil on the woofer. I am pretty sure its at the inner edge of the woofer VC.
Another point is, that I have heard proac r3.8s are in 2 sections internally. Hence the upper and lower port possibly. I don't know if the photos shown were chinese ones or genuine ones, so disregard if they were genuine.
Also, proac use 1 or 2 layers of bitumen damping pads on side walls, making them heavy and inert, he also uses a light fill of some non special fibre. cabling is either prosonic or similar thick copper stranded.
upper woofer will be very similar to the 8535, I was pretty sure the lower one would've been the 8545, but is it confirmed both are indentical?
Its basically a response 2.5 with extra woofer.
The same formula has been applied to proacs later speakers, ie same type of xovers, stewart tyler, to my knowledge, does not know a huge amount, just uses 1 crossover to plug in, and tune very slightly to taste, hence all the xovers being virtually identical.
And the drivers are almost always seas and scanspeak.
I have a theory that he doesn't even design them, and the xover he uses to tweak was taken from elsewhere.
Finally, his taste in sound is boosted bass, mid is recessed, and treble again comes up a bit, the classic smile response, a la fletcher munsen, someitmes, the mid is a bit too soft, and the bass too much. His hearing may be going, as his latest speakers are getting brighter and brighter.
I may be wrong, but that's the conclusion based upon multiple analyses. He has built his business on virtually 1 crossover, and just revisions of drivers, mainly from seas. Hence them all sounding pretty good, consistent and similar.
I possess the xover to the big response 4 but no scanner, and the cabinet is odd, but I don't have that.
He has gone out of his way to stop people finding this sort of thing out, perhaps even the custom drivers and wrong way around xover, along with on some, 25mm and 18mm panels, but that sort of thing will only confuse people who don't know, professionals will of course see right through this, and I bet he one the one hand is flattered by imitation, and rather irritated to say the least by it. He doesn't even publish xover freqs. that's how secretive, so this will annoy him immensely I guess.
But the more secretive you are, the more curious people will be, its just asking for someone to pull it apart to see the secrets.
For the retail price, consumers have a right to know more info than given, and for $30,000 plus for the top model when its costing $3-5k at most to make, I would say not veneering the back is pure cheapskate and insulting.
Hi Friends,
I own a pair of ProAc R3.8 and I study an upgrade of the crossover, consisting in a change of all the parts for very high quality parts (and also the changing the internal cabling).
I have found the original filter above in this topic:
but (as I am far to be an expert) I would like to get a confirmation of where are the "+" and the "-" lines for each part of the filter ?
Furthermore, i have found this page where the values are totally different: who is right ???
Thanks very much ,
Nounours
I own a pair of ProAc R3.8 and I study an upgrade of the crossover, consisting in a change of all the parts for very high quality parts (and also the changing the internal cabling).
I have found the original filter above in this topic:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
but (as I am far to be an expert) I would like to get a confirmation of where are the "+" and the "-" lines for each part of the filter ?
Furthermore, i have found this page where the values are totally different: who is right ???
Thanks very much ,
Nounours
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Not sure whether anybody is still interested in this thread, but yesterday I helped my neighbor to replace old woofers in his 3.8 with new ones from Proac (it says ScanSpeak on the box but the drivers have ProAc logo on the dust cap). So far my remark is that these woofers are marked as 14Ohm. The 8545 are standard 8Ohm speakers. If this is the case the original xover will not work with standard SS drives.
I believe the reason for using 14Ohm driveris to increase the total impedance of the speakers making it easier to drive (and making more tube friendly I guess).
Living voice auditorium which is also an MTM desing uses also high impedance version of Vifa C17WH.
Next week we are going to work further on these speakers. I will post if I spot anything interesting.
I believe the reason for using 14Ohm driveris to increase the total impedance of the speakers making it easier to drive (and making more tube friendly I guess).
Living voice auditorium which is also an MTM desing uses also high impedance version of Vifa C17WH.
Next week we are going to work further on these speakers. I will post if I spot anything interesting.
Hi,
I haven't noticed anybody has replied.
Well, we have successfully replaced the woofers and my neighbour is happy.
I scored 3 ProAc (3.5 actually) woofers with rotten foam (yes I have anly 3 so there will be no clone..)
Just for fun I replaced the surround in one of them using surrounds from audiofriends.nl.
The replacement was actually much more difficult than in Vifa C17WH.
The old glue was very sticky and difficult to remove. Anyway, it has been refoamed and looks pretty ok.
If anybody wants it let me know.
Greg
I haven't noticed anybody has replied.
Well, we have successfully replaced the woofers and my neighbour is happy.
I scored 3 ProAc (3.5 actually) woofers with rotten foam (yes I have anly 3 so there will be no clone..)
Just for fun I replaced the surround in one of them using surrounds from audiofriends.nl.
The replacement was actually much more difficult than in Vifa C17WH.
The old glue was very sticky and difficult to remove. Anyway, it has been refoamed and looks pretty ok.
If anybody wants it let me know.
Greg