ferro20 said:Pheraps someone can ask to troel or others able to predict the correct values..
Is there a troel's friend??
is not simply.
i've clio but to project a crossover 3.8-like you need to have the cabiinet and the speakers.
if you give me the speakers i'll project the crossover for you (you)
b.r.
hi guys seems you need litle help
the bass units of r 3.8 is 18w8535 with less coating, and slightly diferent thiele small . thus less pronounced break up . you can use easily standart 18w8535 with slightly modified crossover. if not you can easily buy custom drivers from proac. it cost however 170GBP
tweeter is scan speak 9xxx series. I think it is 9000(not 9300, and not 9500 or 9700) but I am not sure I need to look closer to screws. but knowing Proac sound likely they throw in 9000.
before building any ProAc you must understand how they sound,
the sound is very warm sweet ans very lush. the bigest minus(or plus what ever it is) is that Proac lacks extreme details, speed and it sounds(also measures it midbass ) very boomy.they needs a lot of power and sound dull and undynamic with few wats. they need to be placed far from walls. threy is designed this way. the very opozite speakers to Proac could be wilson audio for comparision. if you like WA surely You will not like ProAc and backwardoverall proac has beautiful sound. just it is not neutral.
maybe somebody have time to contruct xover?? , if no in autumn I will have spare time and can play with theese to achieve that same FR, Impedanse, Phase shift as originals. in other words exact proac 3.8 clone. people who like proac sound would be glad to have this speker in 25-40sq meter rooms
the bass units of r 3.8 is 18w8535 with less coating, and slightly diferent thiele small . thus less pronounced break up . you can use easily standart 18w8535 with slightly modified crossover. if not you can easily buy custom drivers from proac. it cost however 170GBP
tweeter is scan speak 9xxx series. I think it is 9000(not 9300, and not 9500 or 9700) but I am not sure I need to look closer to screws. but knowing Proac sound likely they throw in 9000.
before building any ProAc you must understand how they sound,
the sound is very warm sweet ans very lush. the bigest minus(or plus what ever it is) is that Proac lacks extreme details, speed and it sounds(also measures it midbass ) very boomy.they needs a lot of power and sound dull and undynamic with few wats. they need to be placed far from walls. threy is designed this way. the very opozite speakers to Proac could be wilson audio for comparision. if you like WA surely You will not like ProAc and backwardoverall proac has beautiful sound. just it is not neutral.
maybe somebody have time to contruct xover?? , if no in autumn I will have spare time and can play with theese to achieve that same FR, Impedanse, Phase shift as originals. in other words exact proac 3.8 clone. people who like proac sound would be glad to have this speker in 25-40sq meter rooms
elviukai said:hi guys seems you need litle help
the bass units of r 3.8 is 18w8535 with less coating, and slightly diferent thiele small . thus less pronounced break up . you can use easily standart 18w8535 with slightly modified crossover. if not you can easily buy custom drivers from proac. it cost however 170GBP
tweeter is scan speak 9xxx series. I think it is 9000(not 9300, and not 9500 or 9700) but I am not sure I need to look closer to screws. but knowing Proac sound likely they throw in 9000.
before building any ProAc you must understand how they sound,
the sound is very warm sweet ans very lush. the bigest minus(or plus what ever it is) is that Proac lacks extreme details, speed and it sounds(also measures it midbass ) very boomy.they needs a lot of power and sound dull and undynamic with few wats. they need to be placed far from walls. threy is designed this way. the very opozite speakers to Proac could be wilson audio for comparision. if you like WA surely You will not like ProAc and backwardoverall proac has beautiful sound. just it is not neutral.
maybe somebody have time to contruct xover?? , if no in autumn I will have spare time and can play with theese to achieve that same FR, Impedanse, Phase shift as originals. in other words exact proac 3.8 clone. people who like proac sound would be glad to have this speker in 25-40sq meter rooms
.......infact we were talking just about crossover and tw model all the rest already known.
i think we need help only for the crossover schematics of the original to slightly modify it with 18w8535 like you sad.
b.t.w. who want clone a proac,knows jet how it sounds,don't you?
do you have the possibility to measure the original ?,or you will have this possibility?
like i sad to clone them,you must have all datas of the original to comparison,and then start to cloning-project.
b.r.
p.s.
but the d9000 is on stock?,i think no.
i think that are in stock : 9300,9500,9700.
i'm not sure the the tw is the d9000,may be a newer version......
Well gents , to quote the line from Star Wars :-
"they're cloners , and damn good ones too".....
thanks to our "cloner" friends on the Asian continent , who have
answered my many questions etc etc.
I have established the correct crossover.
see attached.
Values are:
r1 = 10ohms , 10W
r2 = 10ohms , 10W
r3 = 50ohms , 10W
C1 = 5uF ( 4uF + 1uF )
C2 = 4.3 uF ( 3u3 + 1uF )
C3 = 8uF (4u7 + 3u3 )
C4 = 10.1uF ( 6u8 + 3u3 )
L1 = 0.32mH
L2 = 0.42mH
L3 = 2.0mH
L4 = 10.2mH
Cheers
"they're cloners , and damn good ones too".....
thanks to our "cloner" friends on the Asian continent , who have
answered my many questions etc etc.
I have established the correct crossover.
see attached.
Values are:
r1 = 10ohms , 10W
r2 = 10ohms , 10W
r3 = 50ohms , 10W
C1 = 5uF ( 4uF + 1uF )
C2 = 4.3 uF ( 3u3 + 1uF )
C3 = 8uF (4u7 + 3u3 )
C4 = 10.1uF ( 6u8 + 3u3 )
L1 = 0.32mH
L2 = 0.42mH
L3 = 2.0mH
L4 = 10.2mH
Cheers
Attachments
All we need is someone to model that crossover in their fancy crossover software ( which I don't have ) and check that it all lines
up with the published crossover info from the stereophile article....
and
A definitive answer to which drivers to use.......I think 8535 for the bass units , but I'm not convinced on the tweeter...........
up with the published crossover info from the stereophile article....
and
A definitive answer to which drivers to use.......I think 8535 for the bass units , but I'm not convinced on the tweeter...........
well seems progress is on way BTW when drawing a filter in what polarity woofers and tweetes are conected? this is really matter. I have not heard scan speak 9000 but I worked with 9300/9500/9700 many times and 9700 really diferent. 9300 and 9500 is very similar. and I believe 9000 is identical on 9300 with minor improovements. 9700 it is much more detailed,analytic even litle bit harsh and less soft.
the best thing what can be done is to order exact driver replacements(only 2 is needed, no need to buy 4) from proac and measure them. I believe bass unit is the same as in 2.5 but midrange can be diferent- it could be higher Fs, lower x-max excursion, smaller VAS. it can be really diferent on top end(2-3khz)
or can be backward- bass unit of 3.8 is identical to consumer 18w8535 except oemcustomsized flange and midrange is the same like in Proac 2.5.
BTW when drawing a filter in what polarity woofers and tweetes are conected? this is really matter. I have not heard scan speak 9000 but I worked with 9300/9500/9700 many times and 9700 really diferent. 9300 and 9500 is very similar. and I believe 9000 is identical on 9300 with minor improovements. 9700 it is much more detailed,analytic even litle bit harsh and less soft. the best thing what can be done is to order exact driver replacements(only 2 is needed, no need to buy 4) from proac and measure them. I believe bass unit is the same as in 2.5 but midrange can be diferent- it could be higher Fs, lower x-max excursion, smaller VAS. it can be really diferent on top end(2-3khz)
or can be backward- bass unit of 3.8 is identical to consumer 18w8535 except oemcustomsized flange and midrange is the same like in Proac 2.5.
andrew01 said:Well gents , to quote the line from Star Wars :-
"they're cloners , and damn good ones too".....
thanks to our "cloner" friends on the Asian continent , who have
answered my many questions etc etc.
I have established the correct crossover.
see attached.
Values are:
r1 = 10ohms , 10W
r2 = 10ohms , 10W
r3 = 50ohms , 10W
C1 = 5uF ( 4uF + 1uF )
C2 = 4.3 uF ( 3u3 + 1uF )
C3 = 8uF (4u7 + 3u3 )
C4 = 10.1uF ( 6u8 + 3u3 )
L1 = 0.32mH
L2 = 0.42mH
L3 = 2.0mH
L4 = 10.2mH
Cheers
hi andrew,
fine helps from you!,thanks a lot.
only a question : are you sure that the l2 = 0.42 and l3 = 2.0 and not l3 = 0.42 and l2 = 2.0 ?
about the tw i suggest to try with 9500 until the real model will be revelated.
the woofers are 18w8535 for diy : too much cost for the customized one!
b.r.
andrew01 said:
Well, the woofers shown on the pictures earlier in this thread is surely NOT the 8531 unit - the xx31 is the new revalator series, and I think the 3.8 was released before this series of drives was released from scanspeak. I lean to the assumption that the tweeter also must be a typo - the same way as i regard the info about the 8531
Anyone that mistakes the airdried plup cone of the 8535 /8545 and the sliced paper of the xx31 needs a new pair of glasses - or, mabye we are talking different speakers ??Cheers !
Buhl
andrew01 said:
no problem,but you written the same thing.
probably you what write :
L3 = 0.42 mH
L2 = 2.0 mH
probably,yes : they have different codes for the customized production.
because of the wf of the 3.8 is perfecly identical to the 18w8535 aesthetic.
for the tw the same thing,probably is d9700 and the 10 insted of the 05 seems to be changed for customized proac speakers.
b.r.
Andrew, you're a champ.
I had a quick poke in Speaker Workshop to simulate that crossover, and I think the crossover is the real deal.
I think the original L2 and L3 are correct values. ie. L2 is 0.42mH and L3 is 2mH. This gives the MT crossover frequency of ~2.5Khz.
Unfortunately I don't have time to check whether the 8535 or 9700 would work.
But without building some 3.8 clone cabinets, we can do some simulations using these crossover components, at least guestimate whether that crossover would work with the stock 8535 and 9700...
Roman Bednarek, of www.rjbaudio.com , has written great tutorial on using FRD tools to design a speaker.
If only I wasn't in exam study mode, I'd get cracking on this..
Tutorial:
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
I had a quick poke in Speaker Workshop to simulate that crossover, and I think the crossover is the real deal.
I think the original L2 and L3 are correct values. ie. L2 is 0.42mH and L3 is 2mH. This gives the MT crossover frequency of ~2.5Khz.
Unfortunately I don't have time to check whether the 8535 or 9700 would work.
But without building some 3.8 clone cabinets, we can do some simulations using these crossover components, at least guestimate whether that crossover would work with the stock 8535 and 9700...
Roman Bednarek, of www.rjbaudio.com , has written great tutorial on using FRD tools to design a speaker.
If only I wasn't in exam study mode, I'd get cracking on this..
Tutorial:
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
tktran303 said:
the net of the upper wf is a 3rd electrical order,equalized by the r in parallel to 2.0mH inductance.
varing the res you can vary its support : that's frequency response,impedance and phase.
the bottom wf is filtered with a 2nd electrical order with frequency cut-off lower than the upper.
no great problem with baffle step correcion.
b.r.
