Theres probably more lousy sounding music out there than lousy sounding larger budget movies. And now that Blurays give you uncompressed audio you may change your mind about movie SQ.
The "HT" crowd may have some baffling interests - I've never understood why one would particularly care about any sound from a video except the dialogue and any musical program material that might be on a given video file - but thanks to them audio reproduction has moved forward.
One reason is the standardization mentioned by others.
But the other one is that that best practices "HT" system design, which is to say
-constant and relatively narrow directivity speakers of high efficiency and low dynamic compression using "pro" drivers,
-multichannel playback (a hard center was, of course, originally part of "stereo," only removed because vinyl is such a sonically limiting, compromised format in comparison to modern stuff) with identical LCR speakers identically oriented,
-DSP room correction when needed, and
-multiple subwoofers placed randomly to smooth out in-room frequency response in the modal region
results in massive improvements for high-fidelity music playback.
If these practices have other, lesser, benefits, such as making plotless special effects CGI-fests thud louder, then that's nice I suppose but not too meaningful for many of us. But the bona fide improvements in measurable and audible audio performance from such an approach is plain for all to hear. Except those who must have some old-time low-fi color added to their music - especially in the bass where a 2-channel system is absolutely hopeless no matter how good its bass drivers are or what its ultimate low-frequency extension is, because of room interactions, and in the midrange, where a tweeter flush on a baffle is inevitably going to lead to poor in-room midrange performance due to the directivity mismatch between midwoofer and tweeter - I suppose...
If you've ever heard a movie in a top notch cinema, you'd change your tune, too. The Max Linder in Paris, Mann's Chinese in L.A. and Dolby Labs in S.F. come quickly to mind. Beautiful stuff.
Maybe because of the image, we can "get away with" lesser SQ. But it does not have to be that way. Certainly the SQ is there on the soundtrack.
Maybe because of the image, we can "get away with" lesser SQ. But it does not have to be that way. Certainly the SQ is there on the soundtrack.
When I made my comment I was thinking more of the LFE channel which generally has energy in the sub 20Hz region where few musical instruments other than a very large organ with 32 ft ranks (16.4Hz) or 64 ft ranks (8.2Hz) has appreciable output. Can you think of any music that really needs extension this low?
My music based system rolls off an octave higher than the higher of the two organ stops I mentioned, and I haven't noticed any significant deficit even on organ music. (LP can't reproduce these frequencies at all even at 45rpm, CD and SACD have the theoretical capability)
We do like to go off on the extremes, don't we? 😀
Yes, action movies have big bad explosions. That does not impress me much. There is so much more to cinema sound. A well created sonic space, good voice quality on dialog, subtle sound effects, etc. This can be a real joy - even TV stuff. Listen to the TV show "The Sopranos" sometime on a great system - HT or music. Excellent stuff. Very impressive work.
Yes, action movies have big bad explosions. That does not impress me much. There is so much more to cinema sound. A well created sonic space, good voice quality on dialog, subtle sound effects, etc. This can be a real joy - even TV stuff. Listen to the TV show "The Sopranos" sometime on a great system - HT or music. Excellent stuff. Very impressive work.
Marcus, I didn't say SQ isn't important in HT, I've tried to show that the order of importance of certain aspects are different for a hi-fi or HT system.
Sure they put in much effort in the sound tracks, most of the time you have no reference to compare the sounds you hear from a movie anyway, so you will never realise if your system is accurate or not. Apart from that, your attention is divided between video and audio, that alone make a difference between the two systems. With hi-fi you have only two audio channels to create sound and if done right, you can create a mental picture of what you hear, a bit more demanding on certain qualities of a speaker.
Right and after all that effort, they ruin everything with the poor SQ of Dolby Digital. I hope BD will change that, maybe then I will try HT again.
In that is a large part of the problem, you have to add a processor and at least 3 amplifiers also, in the end you get what you pay for (mostly).
If you build a stereo system of the same price as a HT system, I know which one I will choose, unless it became seriously expensive.
Synthesizers and effects proccesors. (people used to (20 years ago) open a gate with the kick drum track which would pass a 20hz (or what ever freq) tone and add that to the drum. There is lots of music with real low stuff, unless you limit yourself to classics and jazz.
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Dolby digital in theatres is not compressed, and the Bluray formats wont be either. If you ever get the chance, listen to the end credit music from Phantom Menace, uncompressed on a good 5.1 system.
Great Plains Audio for current iterations of some old Altec designs, and for vintage drivers eBay is an excellent source. (That is where I bought my JBL 2402 and 4333 a few years ago.)
Eminence drivers are available from Musician's Friend
Incidentally from the JBL Pro website it really appears that they are completely out of the raw driver business. Everything I know anything about is listed as discontinued. (This was not the case when I got the 2402H just a few years ago)
Eminence drivers are available from Musician's Friend
Incidentally from the JBL Pro website it really appears that they are completely out of the raw driver business. Everything I know anything about is listed as discontinued. (This was not the case when I got the 2402H just a few years ago)
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Something must have changed, then. It sure used to be. It would not fit on the film without compression. An important part of the process.
Hi Earl,
Is this an open invitation?
I'd love to have a play with some compression drivers and high efficiency drivers.
-Danny
Another subjective post from you, zero evidence to back up that one again.
You should maybe spend some time reading actually data from the guys that actually design the DTS stuff.
There is no compression and I do not understand what you are talking about with "Hope BD will change that"? BD has been out for years now.....the game has been changed a long time ago.
If anything Audio on soundtracks is at a higher level of quality then 99% of all music created today. Again, ask the guys actually doing it.
HT is all about high SQ also, if you think our goals are different it again proves how you have your head stuck in the audiophile critical listening world that is dying (Thankfully!). Yes, its guys like you that make me love when another 2 channel store shutsdown. You may think Im arrogant but Im on the side of the average consumer who wants top quality and uses science to get it. I defend them against guys like you and your comments like "Must not have a good enough system", "Must not have trained ears", "Must buy equipment from furniture stores", "HT doesnt care about SQ"......blah, blah, blah. I wonder if your sound system costs more then your car....typical 😉
HT is where ALL future growth is and 2 channel will be stuck in death valley with vinyl.
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I thought the forums had them?
John, owner of AE Speakers. Is a smaller operation, he builds the drivers by hand in the US.
His measurements have been posted enough times by others that he has no need to publish them.
I also already posted the link on this thread to all the measurements needed.
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