So it sounds like at 40 watts the 10F should hit about 111 dB (at some frequency), still at relatively low THD. Better than I would expect, but not rock and roll levels 😉.
What is the SPL level at 10 kHz with 12.8V?
How long does the distortion sweep take over the bandwidth the 10F covers?
Can you truncate the bandwidth so the driver is only exposed to the signal for a short time?
May we expect 115 dB for the most demanding dynamic peaks (I talk about listening at home level) without not too much hearing problems ? Below Xmax yet ? those peaks are never longer than few mili seconds.... and wil be rare imho in living room condition as the reccordings able of it are cruelly missing... My understanding !
Have to see for my needs if the Faital woofs are able of 115 dB on the highest peaks as well with a high pass filter Xoed one octave above the resonant frequency (around 60 Hz with the FE100)
Have to see for my needs if the Faital woofs are able of 115 dB on the highest peaks as well with a high pass filter Xoed one octave above the resonant frequency (around 60 Hz with the FE100)
No it's not the Trynergy design, you should look for the Weltersys thread for that, here th egoal is to go with a FR and FAST system in a horn !
Do you mean two 1in "full range" cone tweeters? As in sticking two of them at throat? Or do you mean compression drivers? In which case Synergy design is limited to 1 at throat.
I'm an american...
One day and some coffees laters :
Measurement seems finally good ! 2" throat is not totally 10,1 cm and 66% reduction in Acrobat reader and printer gives someting very close... around 10,15 cm
This is the printing margin which stays problematic but think it's the poor old driver of my LaserJet (not so options for printing !).
Well, to be continued ! Now the top & bottom panels printing !
Not sure my 15 mm foam is stiff enough for those two top&bottom... maybe plywood could be an option here... but the reflexions on a hard side + very absorbant foam is worrying me ! A detail for the moment !
One day and some coffees laters :
Measurement seems finally good ! 2" throat is not totally 10,1 cm and 66% reduction in Acrobat reader and printer gives someting very close... around 10,15 cm
This is the printing margin which stays problematic but think it's the poor old driver of my LaserJet (not so options for printing !).
Well, to be continued ! Now the top & bottom panels printing !
Not sure my 15 mm foam is stiff enough for those two top&bottom... maybe plywood could be an option here... but the reflexions on a hard side + very absorbant foam is worrying me ! A detail for the moment !
Last edited:
A little OT but... I think in the end, we are all "Romans" when we use units. Did you know that the mile is a metric unit? Metric in the sense that it is based on decimal. How so? A mile is the distance an "average" Roman soldier walks in 1000 paces. A pace is 2 steps (easier to keep count when walking large distances). It so happens I have the perfect average Roman soldier pace, which is 5.28 ft. I have checked this with GPS and I am within 1% on flat land when I walk and count paces.
I like working with inches as all my rulers, tools, screws, nuts, etc are in English (or should I say, Roman units).
The length unit of feet is also useful as it is approximately the distance traveled by light (11 inches) in 1 nano second and by sound (13.5 inches) in air in 1 millisecond. Good for rough estimates of cable delay lengths for electronics, and for speakers.
I like working with inches as all my rulers, tools, screws, nuts, etc are in English (or should I say, Roman units).
The length unit of feet is also useful as it is approximately the distance traveled by light (11 inches) in 1 nano second and by sound (13.5 inches) in air in 1 millisecond. Good for rough estimates of cable delay lengths for electronics, and for speakers.
😀.... I'm in if you want to talk about history despite my limitations in englih !
Did I tell you when I was 20, I' got an MG cab in legacy from a far family from the Pays de la Loire! I made some restoration about it screw by screw with my poor money... body, engine, servo brakes and gears, etc, etc !
I remember like romans some screw were screwed in the opposite sense..... but I understood it was normal as the romans were driving since Bridge of Milvius in the opposite sense ! Constantine emperor drove a Vespa !
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
for us, no problem, but it might be a nightmare when working in the micro environments ! Damn, are nanos measured in english or international metric ? Answer : it doesn't worth, the cat is at the same time alive and dead, young & old, christian & muslim, mp3 & flac !... but, but he eats french camembert & wine !
Did I tell you when I was 20, I' got an MG cab in legacy from a far family from the Pays de la Loire! I made some restoration about it screw by screw with my poor money... body, engine, servo brakes and gears, etc, etc !
I remember like romans some screw were screwed in the opposite sense..... but I understood it was normal as the romans were driving since Bridge of Milvius in the opposite sense ! Constantine emperor drove a Vespa !
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
for us, no problem, but it might be a nightmare when working in the micro environments ! Damn, are nanos measured in english or international metric ? Answer : it doesn't worth, the cat is at the same time alive and dead, young & old, christian & muslim, mp3 & flac !... but, but he eats french camembert & wine !
Last edited:
I had an MGB GT with wire wheels that I fixed all the time when I was 17. Mostly electrical problems and the brakes were awful. Beautiful Pininfarina designed body reminiscent of certain Ferraris.
Atomic units, Bohr radius, Angstroms - those are all non metric but very convenient. Natural units usually are.
In spectroscopy, frequency is often stated as cm^-1 "wave numbers". Not metric but widely used because easier to say 2 cm-1 rather than 60 Gigahertz.
Atomic units, Bohr radius, Angstroms - those are all non metric but very convenient. Natural units usually are.
In spectroscopy, frequency is often stated as cm^-1 "wave numbers". Not metric but widely used because easier to say 2 cm-1 rather than 60 Gigahertz.
Brakes ?😀😀😀 : loved too much the GT design, like also a famous Volvo de Chasse than the Saint (TV serie) drove... fabulous designs ! Eternal !
Mine was a Midget MKIII (with the aluminium bumpers) !.... and no overdrive man ! (english roads you know... not straight american ones !)...
Hey stop with metric and measurement or I call Flah Gordon !😛 (speed of light in???? km/Vespa !)
PS : my wife calls me 600 Ghz... sorry, my french sense of punes !.... Ah excuse me, have to wash the plates ! whashing-machine breaked !
Mine was a Midget MKIII (with the aluminium bumpers) !.... and no overdrive man ! (english roads you know... not straight american ones !)...
Hey stop with metric and measurement or I call Flah Gordon !😛 (speed of light in???? km/Vespa !)
PS : my wife calls me 600 Ghz... sorry, my french sense of punes !.... Ah excuse me, have to wash the plates ! whashing-machine breaked !
Last edited:
Hi X, great build you have here! A synergy in a smaller form factor - yes please. The sound tracks in post #784 are impressive! They sound crisp and dynamic (I particularly liked the drum track). It's kinda crazy when you consider they are foam core board - CLD for the win! Would love to hear some more stereo tracks with added bass augmentation. Any chance this could happen?
I've skimmed through about a quarter of the thread and see you have used miniDSP for crossover duties. Is there also a passive crossover floating around?
Thank you for pushing the DIY boundaries!
Mark
I've skimmed through about a quarter of the thread and see you have used miniDSP for crossover duties. Is there also a passive crossover floating around?
Thank you for pushing the DIY boundaries!
Mark
G
Thanks for the kind words. I have not had a chance to hook it up with a sub and the 10F yet. There is an old clip with the 3FE22 and a sub on post 167.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-trynergy-full-range-tractrix-synergy-16.html
Let me find some time to hook it up with a bass horn for sub duties.
No passive XO. You should build the Cosyne or SpeakerScott's Synergy if you really want passive. Passive XO will cost more than minidsp and class D amps.
Thanks for the kind words. I have not had a chance to hook it up with a sub and the 10F yet. There is an old clip with the 3FE22 and a sub on post 167.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-trynergy-full-range-tractrix-synergy-16.html
Let me find some time to hook it up with a bass horn for sub duties.
No passive XO. You should build the Cosyne or SpeakerScott's Synergy if you really want passive. Passive XO will cost more than minidsp and class D amps.
Last edited:
Hey X,
Is your 0.25" foam a little rigid (I don't talk about just the surface but the whole thickness) ? DO you bend it not too much easily despite it's thin ?
I have time as now I must train to cut clean my 1.5 mm thick smooth foam (too smooth maybe...) !
Hum, I'm going to calibrate my soundcard before and continue some of my main speakers measurements ! After Arta & Holms, have to install REW if I understood.
Ok, direction to the Louis XV man cave (my living room) 😉.... I'm a Fatal (non-)Pro driver 🙁 ! ....😀 (imagine a caveman with a cutter instead a bludgeon to hunt the foam and you will have an idea of my skill
!
cheers
Is your 0.25" foam a little rigid (I don't talk about just the surface but the whole thickness) ? DO you bend it not too much easily despite it's thin ?
I have time as now I must train to cut clean my 1.5 mm thick smooth foam (too smooth maybe...) !
Hum, I'm going to calibrate my soundcard before and continue some of my main speakers measurements ! After Arta & Holms, have to install REW if I understood.
Ok, direction to the Louis XV man cave (my living room) 😉.... I'm a Fatal (non-)Pro driver 🙁 ! ....😀 (imagine a caveman with a cutter instead a bludgeon to hunt the foam and you will have an idea of my skill
!cheers
Last edited:
The foam is two rigid layers of paper with the soft rigid (but bendable) foam in between. Some grades are much stiffer than others. The Elmer's brand for example has very thick cardboard facing whereas the $1 store variety has thin paper facing. It is similar to a very lightweight paper covered thin foam surfboard in construction. To bend it requires cutting slits on the paper facing on the concave side. The tighter the radius of curvature the closer the cuts have to be. Lay on soft carpet after cutting and use a round object to roll the sheets to form a smooth bend without buckling or collapsing the sheet.
Your foam is the softer closed cell EVA kind of like what Jeshi uses in her thread. It can probably work but top and bottom flat panels need to be stiffer like thin plywood.
I go probaly but this volvo car, 3 liter 6 in line engine, leader seats, airco.
and a synergy, but not in the car.
or i go for a bedford van, easy to get big stuff in.
I have to choose between those two, help me.
And pray for mother, she is on intensive care after surgery on gall bladder, she is 84, heavy for that age.
regards
Attachments
Last edited:
The van looks kind of questionable condition of up keep. Nice to load stuff in it though. You are going to buy a commercial Synergy?! For regular driving around the Volvo sedan looks like the right choice. But if hauling gear, a van is essential.
Distortion Measurements at 114dB
Art,
I double checked my measurements and there was a problem with the software on the previous data that used the wrong mic absolute SPL cal. It made the mic measure unusually low, so the speaker is actually more sensitive. I double checked the cal again and did sanity checks with known speaker sensitivities and its all good. Also, I did my estimate of how loud a dance floor is set at about 90dB and that checked. I was wearing earplugs before so had no aural sanity check for mic cal being thrown off.
So it turns out the sensitivity is actually about 100dB at 2.83v at 1.0 m. I set the mic at 1.0 m exactly and on axis. I am using a Fluke 101 DMM to measure the AC voltage applied before the 6.6uF high pass cap.
The distortion stays quite clean, with the worst being a 2% THD at a 2.35kHz peak (most of it is of non-effensive 2nd order).
The horn has some problems with dips due to the lack of a phase plug and cancellation from the large cone trying to act like a compression driver, but distortion wise, it is quite good. I think you were saying if it is less than 10% THD at 114dB, that is a good.
Here is the data starting from 2.83v and going up in +3dB steps until I hit the max mic limit of 115dB.
2.83v:
4.00v:
5.66v:
8.02v:
11.35v:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 1.5kHz:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 10kHz - to answer your earlier question what the SPL level at 10kHz is when 1.5k is at 114dB:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 2.5khz - this is the worst THD peak location:
So it turns out, I don't need a big amp to max out my Trynergy - a simple TPA3116D2 with a 19v laptop brick works just fine.
Measured impedance without 6.6uF cap shows average value of 8 ohms to 10ohms over operating range. Thus at 12.41 volts and 8.264ohms at 1.5khz, that is 19 watts of power to hit 114dB:
Impedance with 6.6uF cap in place was only 15.4ohms or 10 watts of power required at 1.5kHz to hit 114dB. Here is impedance with cap:
Art,
I double checked my measurements and there was a problem with the software on the previous data that used the wrong mic absolute SPL cal. It made the mic measure unusually low, so the speaker is actually more sensitive. I double checked the cal again and did sanity checks with known speaker sensitivities and its all good. Also, I did my estimate of how loud a dance floor is set at about 90dB and that checked. I was wearing earplugs before so had no aural sanity check for mic cal being thrown off.
So it turns out the sensitivity is actually about 100dB at 2.83v at 1.0 m. I set the mic at 1.0 m exactly and on axis. I am using a Fluke 101 DMM to measure the AC voltage applied before the 6.6uF high pass cap.
The distortion stays quite clean, with the worst being a 2% THD at a 2.35kHz peak (most of it is of non-effensive 2nd order).
The horn has some problems with dips due to the lack of a phase plug and cancellation from the large cone trying to act like a compression driver, but distortion wise, it is quite good. I think you were saying if it is less than 10% THD at 114dB, that is a good.
Here is the data starting from 2.83v and going up in +3dB steps until I hit the max mic limit of 115dB.
2.83v:
4.00v:
5.66v:
8.02v:
11.35v:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 1.5kHz:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 10kHz - to answer your earlier question what the SPL level at 10kHz is when 1.5k is at 114dB:
12.41v (mic limit) with cursor on 2.5khz - this is the worst THD peak location:
So it turns out, I don't need a big amp to max out my Trynergy - a simple TPA3116D2 with a 19v laptop brick works just fine.
Measured impedance without 6.6uF cap shows average value of 8 ohms to 10ohms over operating range. Thus at 12.41 volts and 8.264ohms at 1.5khz, that is 19 watts of power to hit 114dB:
Impedance with 6.6uF cap in place was only 15.4ohms or 10 watts of power required at 1.5kHz to hit 114dB. Here is impedance with cap:
Attachments
Last edited: