Re: Power Cord break-in
you sound like needing a lot of heavy dose enlightening, 🙂
Mark, welcome to the forum, where many laws of physics are rewritten and re-discovered routinely, and super-human hearing is the norm rather than the perception.
Your scientific background working for NASA may be helpful in getting the rover land on the Mars, but rest assured, those multi-billion dollar endeavor is no match for the lowly power cord in terms of complexity and complication, especially for those golden ears of us who can hear things no man has heard before, and well into the nano percentage range.
Yes, power cords can be heard on my systems, just as much as the Toyo lawn mower the guy in Shanghai is using right now.
🙂
EE_Mark said:
you sound like needing a lot of heavy dose enlightening, 🙂
Mark, welcome to the forum, where many laws of physics are rewritten and re-discovered routinely, and super-human hearing is the norm rather than the perception.
Your scientific background working for NASA may be helpful in getting the rover land on the Mars, but rest assured, those multi-billion dollar endeavor is no match for the lowly power cord in terms of complexity and complication, especially for those golden ears of us who can hear things no man has heard before, and well into the nano percentage range.
Yes, power cords can be heard on my systems, just as much as the Toyo lawn mower the guy in Shanghai is using right now.
🙂
An elegant gift suggestion
I sent this link to my Wife and humbly suggested that if I might ever be deemed worthy a gift, that this might be appropriate:
http://shop.wgbh.org/webapp/wcs/sto...15954&storeId=11051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1
I sent this link to my Wife and humbly suggested that if I might ever be deemed worthy a gift, that this might be appropriate:
http://shop.wgbh.org/webapp/wcs/sto...15954&storeId=11051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1
Power Cord Affecting Sound
If you can hear a difference with different power cords it's time to dump your system and get a new one. Have you considered running on batteries? Then you don't need to worry about the cord. Just be sure and use lots of quality bypass capacitors so as the batteries discharge the impedance on the battery rail output still stays low. I've seen some systems where when power is off the batteries charge and when power is turned on the charging system is removed from the batteries and from the power line so there can be no 60 Hz. (or 50, depending on what country you're in) ripple. But the bottom line is if you can hear a difference in power cords your system has some serious regulation/filtering problems and you should either replace it or consider running on battery power.
If you can hear a difference with different power cords it's time to dump your system and get a new one. Have you considered running on batteries? Then you don't need to worry about the cord. Just be sure and use lots of quality bypass capacitors so as the batteries discharge the impedance on the battery rail output still stays low. I've seen some systems where when power is off the batteries charge and when power is turned on the charging system is removed from the batteries and from the power line so there can be no 60 Hz. (or 50, depending on what country you're in) ripple. But the bottom line is if you can hear a difference in power cords your system has some serious regulation/filtering problems and you should either replace it or consider running on battery power.
Re: Power Cord break-in
Sure thing..it's always a pleasure to teach the light-weights...😀
Ya gots some really cool stuff on that resume there..I'm jealous..
1 amp..1 preamp..2 power cords..1 cable between..
One loop..both grounds to the wall outlet, and the cable between..
One loop, able to trap a time varying magnetic field, forming a voltage in that loop..
The signal and ground of the ic form two independent loops, and they will show the same voltage..
But, the inner signal loop...all the voltage generated is present at the amp input resistor..while the shield loop is part of a very low resistance loop..
Question is whether or not that loop is very sensitive to the amp draw..it certainly gives problems for external transients, like light switches and motor starts..
Cheers, John
EE_Mark said:
Sure thing..it's always a pleasure to teach the light-weights...😀
Ya gots some really cool stuff on that resume there..I'm jealous..
1 amp..1 preamp..2 power cords..1 cable between..
One loop..both grounds to the wall outlet, and the cable between..
One loop, able to trap a time varying magnetic field, forming a voltage in that loop..
The signal and ground of the ic form two independent loops, and they will show the same voltage..
But, the inner signal loop...all the voltage generated is present at the amp input resistor..while the shield loop is part of a very low resistance loop..
Question is whether or not that loop is very sensitive to the amp draw..it certainly gives problems for external transients, like light switches and motor starts..
Cheers, John
This thread reminds me a lot of the one about directional cables.
My 2c worth... I can only think of two ways to run-in a power cord: run 100A through it for a bit to "coalesce" (ie melt) the copper crystals into some magical state of audio submission. After which you should have a solid copper rod lying in a puddle of molten insulator. A bit difficult to position between amp and speaker, but the best run-in you could hope for. Guaranteed or your money back!
Alternatively use it to beat the bejeezus out of your dog. When he's within an inch of his life your cable should be nicely broken (in)... This method is far simpler and cheaper but draws frowns from the ASPCA...
To induce directionality, simple pass the 100A current in the opposite direction, or beat your mutt using the cable in your left hand instead. And remember to listen only to DC music. Or AC music with a simple series diode at the +ve amp terminal. It sounds wonderful!
Hehehe
My 2c worth... I can only think of two ways to run-in a power cord: run 100A through it for a bit to "coalesce" (ie melt) the copper crystals into some magical state of audio submission. After which you should have a solid copper rod lying in a puddle of molten insulator. A bit difficult to position between amp and speaker, but the best run-in you could hope for. Guaranteed or your money back!
Alternatively use it to beat the bejeezus out of your dog. When he's within an inch of his life your cable should be nicely broken (in)... This method is far simpler and cheaper but draws frowns from the ASPCA...
To induce directionality, simple pass the 100A current in the opposite direction, or beat your mutt using the cable in your left hand instead. And remember to listen only to DC music. Or AC music with a simple series diode at the +ve amp terminal. It sounds wonderful!
Hehehe
Crude humour snipped.....
Should we assume you can't hear difference between power cords then? And proud with it?
analog_sa said:
No, he just felt strongly about having to claim to have re-invented science, 🙂. Some of us are more liberal throwing science out of the window.
Power Cord Induced Ground Loops
If you're worried about power cord induced ground loops then you must not be running your audio signals differentially (balanced). If that's the case then you should float the ground in the power cord on every piece of equipment except one; that way you won't get any ground loops. But again, battery operation would solve those problems. You could easily operate every piece of equipment other than the power amps in your system from batteries, and then just have one grounded power cord going to the power amps. If you're using several monoblocks, then float all the power cord grounds except one. Or float all the power cord grounds and run a ground connection from the preamp chassis to earth ground. Low noise preamplifiers are my specialty and proper grounding always requires good planning. Running audio signals differentially (balanced) can solve a lot of ground loop problems.
If you're worried about power cord induced ground loops then you must not be running your audio signals differentially (balanced). If that's the case then you should float the ground in the power cord on every piece of equipment except one; that way you won't get any ground loops. But again, battery operation would solve those problems. You could easily operate every piece of equipment other than the power amps in your system from batteries, and then just have one grounded power cord going to the power amps. If you're using several monoblocks, then float all the power cord grounds except one. Or float all the power cord grounds and run a ground connection from the preamp chassis to earth ground. Low noise preamplifiers are my specialty and proper grounding always requires good planning. Running audio signals differentially (balanced) can solve a lot of ground loop problems.
No, you shouldn't assume that at all. You should assume/infer that there is no audible difference.
Facts aren't usually things I feel particularly "proud" with (of).
But I take it from your reply that you disagree. That's OK. Few if any audio appliances should be earthed at the wall socket, and as such most only come with a 2-pin connector. I can't see that changing any one of these power cords could make a difference to any ground loops that may exist.
I think EE_Mark summed it up best:
Or go to batteries. Should make the Duracell bunny real proud...
But i can't as i clearly hear it.
And this
is complete nonsense as such a system probably does not exist.
I have gone as far as buit a complete regenerator capable of supplying about 50VA at 220v, kind of enough to power a CD player. Admittedly, without a proper filter on the mains side. The output is a clean sine (<0.5% thd) and i really don't see any noise on the scope but i can still hear different power cords connecting the regenerator to a cd player.
Batteries? In some applications like MC headamps, RIAA amps they can sound absolutely great, incomparable to the purest ac derived power. In power amps i do have some reservations, probably as the high capacity lead acid batteries don't quite match the sonics of lower capacity NiCd/NiMH.
Does anybody here claim that you can burn in a short cord but the wires in the walls are of no importance?analog_sa said:
I love this thread
analog_sa said:
that is I think the wrong approach as if there is a difference, it is likely to have been with devices that drop a lot of current.
May I suggest that you get a GE F9 turbine generator? It is usually good for more than a few meg watts and burns natural gas (pretty clean). Then Sun Turbines has a few smaller ones too. They will allow you to use high quality cords from the generator all the way to your entire system and once and for all solve the cord problem.
I doubt you're hearing anything more than your own wishful thinking. It's human nature.
In my experience many audiophiles are like car enthusiasts. When you spend a packet on those lower profiles and wide rims there has to be an improvement, no? Have you ever heard of such a person admitting that the car drives much as before, albeit with a slightly harder ride? Nope.
And so it is with audio. If you cook up a fancy cable, it's probably going to be better... it must be better! After all, so much time, money, effort went into it... Much the same applies to blue or green marker ink applied to CD edges and thousands more little crapola tweaks designed to exploit human nature.
Wishful thinking? I don't use expensive powercords and neither i spend hours braiding (although it's very tempting to get my gardener to do it). I use pretty much the equal cost wire, without any preconceptions that some of it should sound better and i really don't get anal about it - auditioning power cords is not may favourite passtime. My claim is only that differences are immediately audible even in a simple, cheap system. Trust me i would rather live in a world where these differences do not exist. Unfortunately it's not my choice.
analog_sa said:
not entirely. Think about how many people believe in deadmen talking? and how many of them have talked to deadmen?
Sure, you may have truly heard of those differences, but unless and until it is proven in a scientific test, your experience is nothing more than your experience.
As such, I always suggest that people take some of those tests out there that offer monetary awards to people like you who have gifted hearings. If you are good at your hobby, why not make money while doing it?
That leaves our debate with few possible explanations for this dichotomy. Either:
a) your system is peculiarly revealing of cable subtleties, or
b) you have extraordinary hearing, or
c) I have poor hearing, or
d) one or both of us is smoking magic mushrooms, or
e) you and I live in different worlds. Unlikely since we're in the same country.
Anyway, this is a pointless debate, like an irresistable force encountering an immovable object...
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