Hi, just fitted a 100k TKD 2CP-2511 pot to replace an old blue ALPs, sort of expecting better things from an old scratchy pot.
In short I don't like it yet.
It sounds a lot less real/dynamic and musical. It has less warmth and bass and seems more shut in and 2D. It has lost all the micro-dynamics and tangibility and texture that makes it sound like live music. It has got a bit smother perhaps, but this is like an over-damped opaque smoothness quality. Sort of a bit like the classic passive preamp sound clean but lifeless, and constrained.
I have had to wire this in with fly leads, as it is not PCB mounted and at the same time I have replaced my power supply caps in the preamp as they were nearly 40 years old....so there are other things going on.
BUT I want my old sound back, I thought this would be better or at least the same, not worse.
It has not had much time to run in, so that's my only other hope
Thoughts?
Is this tidy, clean but dynamically controlled/polite sound a TKD character?
In short I don't like it yet.
It sounds a lot less real/dynamic and musical. It has less warmth and bass and seems more shut in and 2D. It has lost all the micro-dynamics and tangibility and texture that makes it sound like live music. It has got a bit smother perhaps, but this is like an over-damped opaque smoothness quality. Sort of a bit like the classic passive preamp sound clean but lifeless, and constrained.
I have had to wire this in with fly leads, as it is not PCB mounted and at the same time I have replaced my power supply caps in the preamp as they were nearly 40 years old....so there are other things going on.
BUT I want my old sound back, I thought this would be better or at least the same, not worse.
It has not had much time to run in, so that's my only other hope
Thoughts?
Is this tidy, clean but dynamically controlled/polite sound a TKD character?
Thoughts... 'running in' won't change a thing.
You mention all you have done and so it is impossible to say the pot is causing a difference in itself. You have changed caps and added leads to the control.
Perhaps the biggest factor may simply be that you were expecting great things and noticeable differences and so it is a bit of an anti climax that in fact nothing has actually changed and yet you perceive it as being 'worse.
Otherwise known as 'experimenter expectation 🙂 it is quite a common effect.
Just keep listening with an open mind and if after several days it still sounds consistently worse then you will have to retrace our steps and brings it back to original condition and then carry out changes one at a time.
You mention all you have done and so it is impossible to say the pot is causing a difference in itself. You have changed caps and added leads to the control.
Perhaps the biggest factor may simply be that you were expecting great things and noticeable differences and so it is a bit of an anti climax that in fact nothing has actually changed and yet you perceive it as being 'worse.
Otherwise known as 'experimenter expectation 🙂 it is quite a common effect.
Just keep listening with an open mind and if after several days it still sounds consistently worse then you will have to retrace our steps and brings it back to original condition and then carry out changes one at a time.
Hm, not possible you've done something drastic like swapped phase on one channel? Or miswired eg. the wiper to the previous stage output instead of the top?
Fair comment, but it is no question sounding worse - listened 3 times; and actually what I wanted to hear an improvement with was my damn hum with the new PS caps, but alas not on that front.
Can't believe new for old caps could change the sound, HT is like for like Sprague atom, LT heater is different brand but the same value. (RIFA out, ELNA in) = could LT smoothing caps change the sound.....?
ALPS got destroyed on exit... but they are quite cheap new if I want to swap it back in.
I am using Duelund cable for the jumpers to the new pot as it's not PCB mount, and that does take time to run in - but in my experience using it as an interconnect it was not flat at first, just a bit messy and untidy with plenty of dynamics and a little bass shy to begin with.
Can't believe new for old caps could change the sound, HT is like for like Sprague atom, LT heater is different brand but the same value. (RIFA out, ELNA in) = could LT smoothing caps change the sound.....?
ALPS got destroyed on exit... but they are quite cheap new if I want to swap it back in.
I am using Duelund cable for the jumpers to the new pot as it's not PCB mount, and that does take time to run in - but in my experience using it as an interconnect it was not flat at first, just a bit messy and untidy with plenty of dynamics and a little bass shy to begin with.
I remember seeing a piece that said - never put the volume pot before the first stage for two reasons - 1. Scratchy pot has the potential to lower the SNR and 2. Id there’s a cap it may cause filtering and change the frequency response.
thanks for the idea
it is by design before first stage by the amp manufacturer, so the location is consistent with ALps and then TKD
it is by design before first stage by the amp manufacturer, so the location is consistent with ALps and then TKD
I'm inclined to say it's the caps, but you're trying to determine something based on at least 2 totally unrelated variables...
A simple fix is to temporarily swap back the ALP adn see what gives.
A simple fix is to temporarily swap back the ALP adn see what gives.
I'm inclined to say it's the caps,
Me too. There is more than one reason to be suspicious of currently manufactured caps.
Me too. There is more than one reason to be suspicious of currently manufactured caps.
The possibility of Chinese counterfeits can't be ignored. Sticking to Panasonic and Nichicon low ESR 'lytics from reliable vendors is (IMO) required.
yeah - well the ALPs is history....not an easy way to clear 6 PCB pin solder joints so there's nothing left to grab, plus it was soldered from both sides......or well actually not easy for a newbie like me 🙂
Just two words - "desoldering needles"yeah - well the ALPs is history....not an easy way to clear 6 PCB pin solder joints so there's nothing left to grab, plus it was soldered from both sides......or well actually not easy for a newbie like me 🙂
Like $4-5 for a set including shipping from China
Caps were from Banzai music in Germany.
Sprague Atoms to replace the same
ELNA RFS to replace RIFA same value (this is a possible change in sound) on the LT side.
Sprague Atoms to replace the same
ELNA RFS to replace RIFA same value (this is a possible change in sound) on the LT side.
desoldering needles....yeah I actually have some on order....but my impatience got the better of me, AND I thought why would I need this old Pot, I have a much better new one......
All of this because of replacing a pot with another same resistance, different brand, 1 or 2 inches away (at most) from original position?It sounds a lot less real/dynamic and musical. It has less warmth and bass and seems more shut in and 2D. It has lost all the micro-dynamics and tangibility and texture that makes it sound like live music. It has got a bit smother perhaps, but this is like an over-damped opaque smoothness quality. Sort of a bit like the classic passive preamp sound clean but lifeless, and constrained.
* Nonsense
* expectation bias
* insecurity/anxiety
Pick one or more, NONE with any Physical reality, all psychological.
I am using Duelund cable for the jumpers to the new pot as it's not PCB mount, and that does take time to run in
If you think wire needs to "break in", I'm not sure there's anything we can do to reason with you.
All of this because of replacing a pot with another same resistance, different brand, 1 or 2 inches away (at most) from original position?
* Nonsense
* expectation bias
* insecurity/anxiety
Pick one or more, NONE with any Physical reality, all psychological.
Agreed 100%.
Just check once again you have a true real genuine TDK potentiometer. Imitation products are sold online and will probably not have the specs of the real thing.
Regards, Gerrit
Regards, Gerrit
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