tinitus said:
No one reason, just forgot it!😀
Maybe it sound better at 5000Hz, not sur if the efficency will be sufficent but🙄
Are you "contagious" by the O.S. waveguide syndrome?😀
All is possible, never tried the RS100...........Theorically a 3" need
a higher crossover than a normal sub................
Cheers,
Paolo
inertial said:
As I remember RS100 vs RS125 are very close to the same specs
Only RS100 being better on both Xmax and sensitivity
Could remember wrong though
O.S. waveguide syndrome 😀 yeah its a problem, cant get it out of my head
fact is that I can do it quite cheap even with quality drivers 😎Really? It's strange, exerpt they have uppered a lot the Fs......
I understand, I also would be listen these famous Geddes creatures,
but I think it will be very difficult here in Italy
Paolo
I understand, I also would be listen these famous Geddes creatures,
but I think it will be very difficult here in Italy
Paolo
tinitus the rs100 sound better to me than the rs125 probably because they never really have cone break up? The only problem is they are very low in sensitivity 82db for 8 ohm speakers. They also bottom out quickly with any thing bass heavy (rs100). I have them mounted vertically with neo 3pdr hanging off the side of small enclosure. This looks really cool, but doesnt image to well. There really not bad and DireStraights sounds pretty good with lots of detail and air. The only problem I have is when I turn it up quite a bit the sound looses all of its good qualities and kinda sucks. I know I need to change the 20 year old tubes in my Melos SHA line stage, but I dont think this is why the speakers fall apart at high volumes. This is why I was shooting for more rs100s and multiple drivers to take some of the load off them?
Justin, you could consider this suggestion, it takes almost no time to build and cost next to nothing...if nothing else you may learn a bit more before attempting more advanced design...would really be a shame if a beautifull and costly enclosure got wasted
Also from how you describe sound you it could be a step on the way, and yes, Paolo will say...ouch 😀
I imagine a 2.5way dipole + sub
It breaks some rules just a bit, but also holds some trick, but it actually make perfectly sense with those small drivers you have
Sub + WWWWMT
If you are seriously interested and committed I will explain in detail, how where and why
But I actually feel it really could be your ticket to something that could be it, the real thing, and very well turn out very special....everything seems to fit together nicely
I think its quite beautiful in its simplicity, and I wont change anything...well, may just another mid above, could be if you they bottom out easily
And, well RS180 could be used instead of RS125
And if you think its too small... just make the baffle bigger
If it doesnt work you wont have wasted much...but I am quite sure you will like once its build...and very good to larn from
I dont have any more, nor any better
Thats it, take it or leave it
btw, I want it myself 😉
Also from how you describe sound you it could be a step on the way, and yes, Paolo will say...ouch 😀
I imagine a 2.5way dipole + sub
It breaks some rules just a bit, but also holds some trick, but it actually make perfectly sense with those small drivers you have
Sub + WWWWMT
If you are seriously interested and committed I will explain in detail, how where and why
But I actually feel it really could be your ticket to something that could be it, the real thing, and very well turn out very special....everything seems to fit together nicely
I think its quite beautiful in its simplicity, and I wont change anything...well, may just another mid above, could be if you they bottom out easily
And, well RS180 could be used instead of RS125
And if you think its too small... just make the baffle bigger
If it doesnt work you wont have wasted much...but I am quite sure you will like once its build...and very good to larn from
I dont have any more, nor any better
Thats it, take it or leave it
btw, I want it myself 😉
Attachments
Yeah I was considering using the rs100s in dipole because others have said there Q make them ideal canidates for this configuration. The only thing I was afraid of was people mention having to use some EQ on them which I dont fully understand? I also am not familiar with what you mean by 2.5 way, could you explain? I will probably trie the rs100s on a quick experimental OB ,with the AC G2si so I can also break these in, this weekend if I have time. I do understand a lot of the rules and do like the sound you can get from really small mini monitors, but I just want to try some thing a bit larger and more complicated, even if it takes me a year to get it right.tinitus said:
Hi,
2.5 way normally is a TWW where the upper woofer cross the tweeter at ( to say) 3Khz and the lower woofer is crossed a pair of octaves below with a simple 6dB/oct. Thus you have 2 woofers in parallel in the bass and only one up to the tweeter. Typical example was B&W slim towers.
Cheers,
Paolo
2.5 way normally is a TWW where the upper woofer cross the tweeter at ( to say) 3Khz and the lower woofer is crossed a pair of octaves below with a simple 6dB/oct. Thus you have 2 woofers in parallel in the bass and only one up to the tweeter. Typical example was B&W slim towers.
Cheers,
Paolo
Justin Melhado said:
Hi, Paolo exålains nicely, I just want ad that a 2.5way besides dealing with the BSC, it also have the advantage of getting mid driver closer to the tweeter
If both woofers played mid there would be phase issues from the bottom woofer being too far from the tweeter
Its basicly whats in it
BSC is compensation fore the loss of midbass below 300hz or so the frequency depends on how wide the front baffle is
Mounting a single RS100 or 125 wont get you anywhere
Read the above
Also it will as you say bottom out too early
You need to understand whats going on in the design I gave you
When done as shown there is a total of 5 drivers doing bass, which is a whole lot differnt from just one
As I mentioned, with a small compromise, another mid could be added, which would make it 6 drivers fore bass duties and 2 fore mids....its actually a WWWWWtW
When knowing that its a 2.5way, it goes without saying that the upper woofers also play midrange, as well as bass, and the bottom woofers only play bass
Normally it should not be done like that, its too many woofers fore just one mid
But drivers are small and its OB, so my guess is that its just right
Doing something much bigger and complicated wont get you anywhere, not even in a year
You need to learn a lot more about design basics, and still theory is one thing, making it work as supposed is a another game
Either way, the OB design shown will give you a fair change to find out how good those drivers work together, whats possible and whats not
You will have a good chance to learn something about whats need, easily and cheap, before approaching the ultimate design
good luck🙂
You know, forums are a new thing in audio world, and apart from any other number of other things, its quite good at trying to help youngsters and less experienced, so that they have a fair change of succes getting what they want, or close to, and not loosing all their money
Nothings perfect, and it may not always work as intended, but its always better than nothing
Thats how I see it, cannot help you with doing the absolute impossible, and why your thread has gone the way it has
One should ask before making decisions
Really not very good to decide on a project, buy the drivers, and first then asking how its supposed to work
If you want good speakers you have to do EVERYTHING right from the very beginning to the end
To enjoy music takes very good speakers, no way arround it
Its rude, i know, but its the facts we deal with almost daily
Nothings perfect, and it may not always work as intended, but its always better than nothing
Thats how I see it, cannot help you with doing the absolute impossible, and why your thread has gone the way it has
One should ask before making decisions
Really not very good to decide on a project, buy the drivers, and first then asking how its supposed to work
If you want good speakers you have to do EVERYTHING right from the very beginning to the end
To enjoy music takes very good speakers, no way arround it
Its rude, i know, but its the facts we deal with almost daily
Thanks for all your advice guys, I really appreciate it. I am going to try to keep it simple with just 4 rs100s and a Neo8 in the middle. This shouldnt break the CTC rule if I cross-over low enough, 1500hz with 2nd or 4th order LR. Then I will also keep the baffle slim 5" to 8" and use the active rs265 at the bottom of the cabinet in its own seperate enclosure. So it will be just a 2-way cross-over with active cross-over from sub to rs100's.
Looks good Justin🙂 Only keep the XO more lower........no problem with Neo8pdr ( pdr!!!!) power handling😎
I suggest 800 Hz 2order ( acoustical of course)
Cheers,
Paolo
I suggest 800 Hz 2order ( acoustical of course)
Cheers,
Paolo
Justin Melhado said:
Sounds fine 😉
But it may actually work to your advantage not to make it too slim, dont overdo it
One reason is BSC related
Other is that those small RS100 really need have the most possible space around its back to be able to breathe properly
Fore this reason please dont make the front baffle very thick, its better to reinforce a bit thinner one
Makes such small drivers breathe better
In this respect its exstremely important to remove/route around the drivers backside...but be carefull leave just a little exstra material at the screwholes
The rest could be as thick as you like it to
All 4 RS100 playing the same up to the tweeter may give a bit more sensitivity, but you need to cross it relatively low to do the BSC thing, and loose some of the gained sensitivity
You could choose to make it 2.5way, which would an obvious choice fore your design
One is you get the BSC in a simpler and more predictable way
Second it could improve the midrange with just the two drivers close to the tweeter playing midrange
Third the resulting lower impedance means smaller inductors, sounds better and cost less 😀
But its cool, it will work 🙂
Thanks, so what would you start with as x-over points for a 2.5 and order and type? Also which would have a better chance of imaging great wwmtm or wmtmw? 800hz was suguested above, so something like 400hz for the .5 driver then 800hz the rest? I have never made this type of cross-over?tinitus said:
Justin Melhado said:
A little dilemma
A pure 2way would only stand a change as the WWTWW you suggested, bot its still a bit too compromised
But it could work nicely as a 2.5way
But WWMTM might be even better fore the 2.5way, as the two woofers will load better when together, theoretically
Its really hard to chose from 2.5way WMTMW and WWMTM
I would do the 2.5way WWMTM
But I cant say which would be better
But WWMTM is not so tall, well only slightly less, maybe nicer to look at, and a bit easier to mount with wires and so
Man, Im in serious doubt about that one, but I guess they will both work as a 2.5way
The cross point fore the 0.5way woofers could be anywhere from 300hz and up
It also denpends on how they work doing that
But my guess is that it may work best with highish crossing
Its done with a big series inductor
Could be anything from 4uf to 8uf
Additioanal RC is an option, but may not be needed
Your MTM 2way xo could be placed around as deep as possible with theNeo3
But you might get distortion doing that, I dont know what that Neo3 can do
I reckon its the 90db type, they say from 1200hz, but nothing about slopes
btw, I would suggest to make the cabinet wider than deep, Im pretty confident it will sound better
But I havent calculated anything yet, so right now its hard to say whats possible
But theres 2 different RS100, shielded and not, and they have very different specs, so which one is it ?
😴
Fore auto...well, I suppose they mean that the shielded takes up more space, nothing else
But I got cheated
They(PE) write 87db for the non shielded, but looking at Dayton spec sheet it says 83db, or so, just like the other...I hate when they do that
We look at it later
But I got cheated
They(PE) write 87db for the non shielded, but looking at Dayton spec sheet it says 83db, or so, just like the other...I hate when they do that
We look at it later
Also I was thinking of using a neo8 not the neo3. It looks like the neo8 recomends a minimum of 500-700hz with 2nd order filter. From what I have read the Neo3 needs a min 2500 with second order filter.
The rs100s wired in series parallel would give me around 89db which is getting a little closer to Neo8PDR's sensitivity.
Hi ,
I have to partially disagree with tinitus😀
In my experience Neo8pdr need absolutely the more slim as possible,
It measure better and moreower imaging better
Also in am not in favour of those symmetrical layouts, IMO keep it more simple again: only two RS100 both in parallel.
Just a superslim tower with TWWSW
If the x-over with the sub is at least 100Hz( plate amp,no?), I do not see problem of excursion at reasonable output levels.
Efficency? Sorry, miracles are not possible 😀
But you have ultrasimplified your work in adjusting the x-over ( never undervaluate this!!!), I think you will be very happy of that😉
And 800Hz L2 is quite easy to voicing...........
Cheers,
Paolo
I have to partially disagree with tinitus😀
In my experience Neo8pdr need absolutely the more slim as possible,
It measure better and moreower imaging better
Also in am not in favour of those symmetrical layouts, IMO keep it more simple again: only two RS100 both in parallel.
Just a superslim tower with TWWSW
If the x-over with the sub is at least 100Hz( plate amp,no?), I do not see problem of excursion at reasonable output levels.
Efficency? Sorry, miracles are not possible 😀
But you have ultrasimplified your work in adjusting the x-over ( never undervaluate this!!!), I think you will be very happy of that😉
And 800Hz L2 is quite easy to voicing...........
Cheers,
Paolo
Is it Neo8 now ? 😕
Ok, its cheap all right, so maybe nothing wrong in doing that
Well, if Neo8 is in play again I would consider to use your 4 RS180 and do sub+ WWM +T...2xRS180 + Neo8 + Neo3
Much more powerfull and will easily take some beating...a real speaker and the only really sensible thing to do
Im sure we could dissagree on that one too...I dont care much about perfection as it only means trouble 😀
Ok, its cheap all right, so maybe nothing wrong in doing that
Well, if Neo8 is in play again I would consider to use your 4 RS180 and do sub+ WWM +T...2xRS180 + Neo8 + Neo3
Much more powerfull and will easily take some beating...a real speaker and the only really sensible thing to do
Im sure we could dissagree on that one too...I dont care much about perfection as it only means trouble 😀
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