Jives 11: "Hi John, I'm a bit surprised that the UK mags have not cottoned on to the greystation - even the more hands on "HiFi world", which did cover the T-amp. Is it a "don't upset the advertisers" thing do you think ?"
Hi Jives! It's EXACTLY that mate and the main reason I became totally dissolusioned with the whole business. DIY audio has a habit of putting into stark relief the incredibly over-priced crap that gets released and fawned over by the Hi-Fi mags these days. I mean... for example - an interconnect made by a well-known NAME in the business charging £500 for an INTERCONNECT and then getting praised to death by a magazine who's views I used to respect?!? It's all sadly way out of control now. It's just sick... DIY - I find - is generally WAY ahead of the pack in sound quality stakes, and we also have no need to pander to industry whims. It's totally money orientated these days - real listening and honesty has flown out the window. The magazine I wrote for should now be renamed the 4-star magazine.... which pissed me off after writing quite a few 3 star ones and finding them magically bumped up in status...
It's also a case of not wanting to admit that something so cheap, mass manufactured, and - HECK! - a games machine CAN sound amazing. Well life is too short - I know this thing sounds amazing - as do many others now - and am quite happy to use it as my main source of music.
- J
Hi Jives! It's EXACTLY that mate and the main reason I became totally dissolusioned with the whole business. DIY audio has a habit of putting into stark relief the incredibly over-priced crap that gets released and fawned over by the Hi-Fi mags these days. I mean... for example - an interconnect made by a well-known NAME in the business charging £500 for an INTERCONNECT and then getting praised to death by a magazine who's views I used to respect?!? It's all sadly way out of control now. It's just sick... DIY - I find - is generally WAY ahead of the pack in sound quality stakes, and we also have no need to pander to industry whims. It's totally money orientated these days - real listening and honesty has flown out the window. The magazine I wrote for should now be renamed the 4-star magazine.... which pissed me off after writing quite a few 3 star ones and finding them magically bumped up in status...
It's also a case of not wanting to admit that something so cheap, mass manufactured, and - HECK! - a games machine CAN sound amazing. Well life is too short - I know this thing sounds amazing - as do many others now - and am quite happy to use it as my main source of music.
- J
i did not state linn or mission had to be part of a shindo system phn-i was speaking in the metaphor. in the ps1 we are talking about a machine with neither digital nor optical outputs the equivalent of which can be found at most hi-fi stores for £29.99 that most serious audiophiles will not even give a glance to. it just seems a bit odd that the above gentleman has obviously spent a lot of time and money assembling his system only to place a ps1 where a high-end player should go. do shindo not produce a cd player then??. if you want optimum sound quality then you have to be prepared to pay for it. also the ps1 is getting on a bit now the reproduction of sound has come on in leaps and bounds over the last ten years or so in cd format with the introduction of finer semiconductor lasers that can retreive more information from the cd and better hardware/transports. its a bit like expecting your 1996 ford fiesta trying to keep up with a current model. you can spend your whole life trying to modify or upgrade but at the end of the day-what you see is what you get.
For the cited price of the Linn CD12 here you get a top-of-the-line Shindo amp. I would much rather take a Shindo amp and the PSX than the CD12.
I don't think it's very likely Ken Shindo will ever make a CD player. But my point is that I don't think the buyers of Linn and Shindo are the same people. They come from different worlds.
There's demand for early 14-bit Philips and Sony CD players. The people seeking those out prefer them to today's 24/192 DACs. They use words like "involving" to describe the sound of the former. Some people evidently think the same about the PSX.
As I see it, you have two alternatives. One is to get the CD player you like and tweak it if you see a need for it. Or you can join the spec race and upgrade your CD player every two years or so when faster and higher spec chips become available. After all, if you think specs matter, higher specs have to be better. That means that the 20-bit CD12 is a pretty mediocre CD player by now.
Of course we know that "reproduction of sound has come on in leaps and bounds over the last ten years or so in cd format." How could we not? The audio press has been blurbing that every month for the last ten years.
But "the introduction of finer semiconductor lasers that can retreive more information from the cd and better hardware/transports" is simply not true. There are only "ones" and "zeros". There's no hidden info for the laser to pick up. The CD is nothing like vinyl.
It's lies like these, parroted by the mouthpieces in the audio press, that the likes of Linn and Teac use to justify their prices. "High end" is the worst thing that ever happened to audio since it takes price out of the equation. "High end" implies that the only way you can make something better is by making it more expensive, and the more expensive is always better.
The lack of digital out on the PSX is irrelevant. Digital out you use if you want to circumvent the DAC. Why would you want to use the PSX as a transport?
I don't think it's very likely Ken Shindo will ever make a CD player. But my point is that I don't think the buyers of Linn and Shindo are the same people. They come from different worlds.
There's demand for early 14-bit Philips and Sony CD players. The people seeking those out prefer them to today's 24/192 DACs. They use words like "involving" to describe the sound of the former. Some people evidently think the same about the PSX.
As I see it, you have two alternatives. One is to get the CD player you like and tweak it if you see a need for it. Or you can join the spec race and upgrade your CD player every two years or so when faster and higher spec chips become available. After all, if you think specs matter, higher specs have to be better. That means that the 20-bit CD12 is a pretty mediocre CD player by now.
Of course we know that "reproduction of sound has come on in leaps and bounds over the last ten years or so in cd format." How could we not? The audio press has been blurbing that every month for the last ten years.
But "the introduction of finer semiconductor lasers that can retreive more information from the cd and better hardware/transports" is simply not true. There are only "ones" and "zeros". There's no hidden info for the laser to pick up. The CD is nothing like vinyl.
It's lies like these, parroted by the mouthpieces in the audio press, that the likes of Linn and Teac use to justify their prices. "High end" is the worst thing that ever happened to audio since it takes price out of the equation. "High end" implies that the only way you can make something better is by making it more expensive, and the more expensive is always better.
The lack of digital out on the PSX is irrelevant. Digital out you use if you want to circumvent the DAC. Why would you want to use the PSX as a transport?
"if you want optimum sound quality then you have to be prepared to pay for it."
Sorry but that just isn't true - it's what many of the mags and manufacturers would have you believe though... In my stint as a reviewer I was actually appalled at the quality of the majority of so-called high end equipment. Looking under the hood in each case would reveal average design and only so-so quality components. In my systems all my money goes into the innards, and the looks come a little later (bit like me really - haha! Ahem!). In fact I'm starting to think that hi-fi is now only designed for reviewers and the real music lovers are getting increasingly left out of things...
You also forgot that you can't get better that what is actually ON the disc. I think the PS1 gets quite a way there, and I would contest your opinions that things have come on in leaps and bounds since it came out. In a similar vain why are so many still using Garrad turntables, early valve amp designs, heavy-weight late 80s/early90s CD players and so on if only the new stuff is better?
I just use what WORKS for me, and which reminds me sonically of the live music I go and see as often as I can. The PS1 is the only machine I have heard to date which allows me to enjoy my full CD collection without any niggles. True it DOES look a bit weird and out of place, but I kind of like that now. Still have my Naim CDI and Shanling of course, but the PS1 is the machine I have listened to the most during the past 2-3 months.
Cheers,
- John
P.S. You're not a marketing dude for a Hi-Fi company are you?
Sorry but that just isn't true - it's what many of the mags and manufacturers would have you believe though... In my stint as a reviewer I was actually appalled at the quality of the majority of so-called high end equipment. Looking under the hood in each case would reveal average design and only so-so quality components. In my systems all my money goes into the innards, and the looks come a little later (bit like me really - haha! Ahem!). In fact I'm starting to think that hi-fi is now only designed for reviewers and the real music lovers are getting increasingly left out of things...
You also forgot that you can't get better that what is actually ON the disc. I think the PS1 gets quite a way there, and I would contest your opinions that things have come on in leaps and bounds since it came out. In a similar vain why are so many still using Garrad turntables, early valve amp designs, heavy-weight late 80s/early90s CD players and so on if only the new stuff is better?
I just use what WORKS for me, and which reminds me sonically of the live music I go and see as often as I can. The PS1 is the only machine I have heard to date which allows me to enjoy my full CD collection without any niggles. True it DOES look a bit weird and out of place, but I kind of like that now. Still have my Naim CDI and Shanling of course, but the PS1 is the machine I have listened to the most during the past 2-3 months.
Cheers,
- John
P.S. You're not a marketing dude for a Hi-Fi company are you?
"High end" is the worst thing that ever happened to audio since it takes price out of the equation. "High end" implies that the only way you can make something better is by making it more expensive, and the more expensive is always better."
I totally agree, and I'm so glad I caught the DIY audio bug as it bought crashing down to earth all my previous conceptions about what high quality audio was all about. Much of my equipment isn't mega expensive, but it beats the pants off about 70% of the systems I heard during my stint as a reviewer.
- J
I totally agree, and I'm so glad I caught the DIY audio bug as it bought crashing down to earth all my previous conceptions about what high quality audio was all about. Much of my equipment isn't mega expensive, but it beats the pants off about 70% of the systems I heard during my stint as a reviewer.
- J
thankyou all for these inputs-i do love a good (but well mannered)debate. i can only go on my own experience with the ps1-while they made fine games machines. in cd mode i was not impressed. it simply did not match up to the quality of the cd player i had at the time (a denon). so i plugged it back into the tv where it served me well and left playing of the cd's to the denon (which i still have as a spare). although i totally agree with the comment about valve amps (phn's i think) in that the finest system i ever listened to was my old quad II-but this was in the days before i discovered the benefits of optical and digital interconnects. .
.
Hmmm... I'm with JohnM
I was really excited when I discovered this thread about a year ago. I picked several up, placed one on some anti-vibration pucks, and listened. I immediately heard what others were talking about... an analog-like presentation that made most CD's very listenable.
Since then I've modified mine pretty far... bypass of the output stage by taking the signal right off the DAC, large poly-cap outputs with higher-quality output jacks, damping of the structure, removal of un-needed portions of the structure such as the top of the case and the front plug structure, and a rebuild of the SMPS with high-Q diodes and caps.
With all that, it's retained the involving, analog-like presentation while adding a wealth of detail, articulation, and frequency extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum. My PS is NOT bass shy!
My other CDPs are a Njoe Tjoeb with upsampler and a professionally-modified Panasonic S47 DVD player done by Ric Schultz at Electronic Visionary Systems. Both are good in their own way, but my nod for musical involvement goes to the PS.... and the Tjoeb is known for its prowess in that area.
All of my gear is modified. Over the last 30 years, I've found that modifying basically good gear or careful scratch-building can yield performance that's 80% of much of the high-priced spread...and sometime 150%.
Back to my workbench and soldering iron!
Greg in Minneapolis (soon to be Mississippi!)
I was really excited when I discovered this thread about a year ago. I picked several up, placed one on some anti-vibration pucks, and listened. I immediately heard what others were talking about... an analog-like presentation that made most CD's very listenable.
Since then I've modified mine pretty far... bypass of the output stage by taking the signal right off the DAC, large poly-cap outputs with higher-quality output jacks, damping of the structure, removal of un-needed portions of the structure such as the top of the case and the front plug structure, and a rebuild of the SMPS with high-Q diodes and caps.
With all that, it's retained the involving, analog-like presentation while adding a wealth of detail, articulation, and frequency extension at both ends of the frequency spectrum. My PS is NOT bass shy!
My other CDPs are a Njoe Tjoeb with upsampler and a professionally-modified Panasonic S47 DVD player done by Ric Schultz at Electronic Visionary Systems. Both are good in their own way, but my nod for musical involvement goes to the PS.... and the Tjoeb is known for its prowess in that area.
All of my gear is modified. Over the last 30 years, I've found that modifying basically good gear or careful scratch-building can yield performance that's 80% of much of the high-priced spread...and sometime 150%.
Back to my workbench and soldering iron!
Greg in Minneapolis (soon to be Mississippi!)
Hi
Having been painting both 1002 &
5502 PS1 models, I have found that
the 5502 lids will fit the 1002
body structures but the 1002 lids
do not fit without modification.
The picture show a 1002 lid on the bottom
and 5502 lid on top. I have found
this really nice black metallic lacquer
which looks great on the body of the
playstation. I have done some in matt
black but prefer the metallic. I am
also looking into light pipeing the
soon to be blue led for the power into
the edge of the carriage body. If it
works I will post a picture.
Regards
AnthonyPT
Having been painting both 1002 &
5502 PS1 models, I have found that
the 5502 lids will fit the 1002
body structures but the 1002 lids
do not fit without modification.
The picture show a 1002 lid on the bottom
and 5502 lid on top. I have found
this really nice black metallic lacquer
which looks great on the body of the
playstation. I have done some in matt
black but prefer the metallic. I am
also looking into light pipeing the
soon to be blue led for the power into
the edge of the carriage body. If it
works I will post a picture.
Regards
AnthonyPT
Attachments
Hi there!
I've got a question concerning the PlayStation.
I use a scph-1002, laser unit KSM-440 AAM.
I've done the recasing of the power supply as shown on http://dogbreath.de/PS1/RecasingPSU/RecasingPSU.html .
Since yesterday, every time I switch the psu on, there is a frizzling sound. Almost as if there were a loose connection somewhere.
This sound only appears, if the PSU is connected to the main board.
If I switch it on separately, there's no weird sound at all.
I double-checked the connecting cables, even removed the plugs.
Finally, I used the original, short cable to make sure there is no insulate connection.
The PSU looks fine to me, no soldering points are damaged, nothing is loose.
Do you have an idea of what could cause this noise?
By the way: Nothing smells burnt. If I ignore the frizzling, insert a cd, connect to the amp...
Well, there is the PS boot up sound, but no music afterwards.
The cd is read normally in the beginning, but doesn't restart to turn when I push the start button ;-(
I've got a question concerning the PlayStation.
I use a scph-1002, laser unit KSM-440 AAM.
I've done the recasing of the power supply as shown on http://dogbreath.de/PS1/RecasingPSU/RecasingPSU.html .
Since yesterday, every time I switch the psu on, there is a frizzling sound. Almost as if there were a loose connection somewhere.
This sound only appears, if the PSU is connected to the main board.
If I switch it on separately, there's no weird sound at all.
I double-checked the connecting cables, even removed the plugs.
Finally, I used the original, short cable to make sure there is no insulate connection.
The PSU looks fine to me, no soldering points are damaged, nothing is loose.
Do you have an idea of what could cause this noise?
By the way: Nothing smells burnt. If I ignore the frizzling, insert a cd, connect to the amp...
Well, there is the PS boot up sound, but no music afterwards.
The cd is read normally in the beginning, but doesn't restart to turn when I push the start button ;-(
Sounds like something got knocked somewhere, if the start button is not working then have a closer inspection of it's connections.
If you got the boot-up sound then that shows one side of the supply is working but it seems that the power to the laser is failing...not sure.
Hope you find the culprit.
If you got the boot-up sound then that shows one side of the supply is working but it seems that the power to the laser is failing...not sure.
Hope you find the culprit.
Hmmm. If you exactly followed my description, I can't tell what possibly causes a problem. It should work, I have done it several times this way.
I second the other comments - make sure there is no short, no unwanted connection to the case (check the bottom side of the board if it touches something). Check the voltages arriving at the main board to make sure you did not interchange some pin connections.
Also check if you disconnected the laser by accident.
Mick
I second the other comments - make sure there is no short, no unwanted connection to the case (check the bottom side of the board if it touches something). Check the voltages arriving at the main board to make sure you did not interchange some pin connections.
Also check if you disconnected the laser by accident.
Mick
Just installed output transformers in the PSX. What a production!
Something isn't right, though. I get sound. But low and lots of hiss. I have done something wrong. I just don't know what. Two leads to hot and the others (five; there are seven leads including shield) to ground. I will contact the seller. Maybe he knows.
I'm angry at myself. I was so sure I was doing things right I saw now need testing it first.
Something isn't right, though. I get sound. But low and lots of hiss. I have done something wrong. I just don't know what. Two leads to hot and the others (five; there are seven leads including shield) to ground. I will contact the seller. Maybe he knows.
I'm angry at myself. I was so sure I was doing things right I saw now need testing it first.
I removed the transformers. It was the only way to see if I had done things right. I tested it and it works with the transformers. That means two things.
I had hooked the transformers right. And, not so good, I don't know what was wrong in the first place.
I also managed to break the PSX. No real problem since I have one other, possibly two.
For now I'm stuck with an unmodified PSX. I won't mod it until I know more in regards to the transformers.
I had hooked the transformers right. And, not so good, I don't know what was wrong in the first place.
I also managed to break the PSX. No real problem since I have one other, possibly two.
For now I'm stuck with an unmodified PSX. I won't mod it until I know more in regards to the transformers.
First, a better explanation of my last post.
I hooked RCA connectors to the transformer leads. The transformers are currently hooked up between the PSX and amp.
The principle isn't really the same since output transformers are step-down transformers, which allow the amp to drive a heavy load.
Having that said, output transformers on tube preamps are also step-down transformers but not because of some load issues.The Euridice.
In my case it's simply about getting rid of the output coupling caps, while taking care of any impedance issues as well. You can also add XLR outputs if you want.
I hooked RCA connectors to the transformer leads. The transformers are currently hooked up between the PSX and amp.
The principle isn't really the same since output transformers are step-down transformers, which allow the amp to drive a heavy load.
Having that said, output transformers on tube preamps are also step-down transformers but not because of some load issues.The Euridice.
In my case it's simply about getting rid of the output coupling caps, while taking care of any impedance issues as well. You can also add XLR outputs if you want.
I have just finished Mick's linear PSU. I have done a few changes. C1=4700uF, C2=1000uF and C5=470uF. I got better figures in the PSU Designer with those values. I also changed R2 to 220 Ohms. And I will add a 0.1uF cap inside the PSX. I believe the latter is usually recommended when you use an external PSU. I use a 100W trafo, by the way.
I should ground the PSU ground to the chassis, right?
I'm still waiting for a friend to drill and mill holes in the front pannel of the PSU cabinet. Hopefully I will get it this week. With some luck I should be able to report next weekend.
I will also need a stunt PSU. I'm down to possibly my last PSX and don't want to fry it. The one I broke should work. I should then also have solved the output trafo issues.
I should ground the PSU ground to the chassis, right?
I'm still waiting for a friend to drill and mill holes in the front pannel of the PSU cabinet. Hopefully I will get it this week. With some luck I should be able to report next weekend.
I will also need a stunt PSU. I'm down to possibly my last PSX and don't want to fry it. The one I broke should work. I should then also have solved the output trafo issues.
Thanks for your help!
I changed the whole power supply unit with the result of everything working correctly now.
I expect that one capacitor wasn't working.
A lot of time and effort (not to forget money) for just one cap :-/
I Got another question though:
The PS works fine now, except for the noise of the cd drive.
There is some sort of squeal which is QUITE loud in the beginning of the cd, getting lower towards the end.
What could this be? Could the drive simply be too old?
Thanks again,
Wan
I changed the whole power supply unit with the result of everything working correctly now.
I expect that one capacitor wasn't working.
A lot of time and effort (not to forget money) for just one cap :-/
I Got another question though:
The PS works fine now, except for the noise of the cd drive.
There is some sort of squeal which is QUITE loud in the beginning of the cd, getting lower towards the end.
What could this be? Could the drive simply be too old?
Thanks again,
Wan