Now everything is in place, lamps are working and it has been re-positioned to its location in the living room.
It barely generates heat in the large power heatsinks - the heat that can be felt is coming from the power supply - not overly hot, but then again I haven't had cranked up yet.
So now I have nice looking clean, almost totally refurbished receiver, that sounds.....
EXACTLY the way it did before the re-cap 🙁.
I hear no improvement what so ever - no crisp treble (the main reason I went ahead), lots of bass (hard to tell if the bass is muffled as well). General sound experience is muffeled, contained un-inspiring .
I had my cheap speakers hooked up to the temporary SANSUI 6060 (year 1976) substitute, and it (the SANSUI) made them sound really good - much better than the SX-1080 did. This goes to proof that both my hearing (even though it isn't what it used to be 😉 ) AND the speakers are OK - the SX-1080 doesn't perform, even with my ELAC 253s connected...
What I wonder now is, if there is any thing more I can do - obviously the Tone Control board could be investigated, but all electrolytes have been replaced here - could it be replacing that the two trannys and the ceramics and mylars ( C5-C12) will help?
As it is now all the effort has had no effect....
It barely generates heat in the large power heatsinks - the heat that can be felt is coming from the power supply - not overly hot, but then again I haven't had cranked up yet.
So now I have nice looking clean, almost totally refurbished receiver, that sounds.....
EXACTLY the way it did before the re-cap 🙁.
I hear no improvement what so ever - no crisp treble (the main reason I went ahead), lots of bass (hard to tell if the bass is muffled as well). General sound experience is muffeled, contained un-inspiring .
I had my cheap speakers hooked up to the temporary SANSUI 6060 (year 1976) substitute, and it (the SANSUI) made them sound really good - much better than the SX-1080 did. This goes to proof that both my hearing (even though it isn't what it used to be 😉 ) AND the speakers are OK - the SX-1080 doesn't perform, even with my ELAC 253s connected...
What I wonder now is, if there is any thing more I can do - obviously the Tone Control board could be investigated, but all electrolytes have been replaced here - could it be replacing that the two trannys and the ceramics and mylars ( C5-C12) will help?
As it is now all the effort has had no effect....
Attachments
Strange thing is, that there is a nice open tone (with treble) in the head-set output - is this a clue?
Hi Ole, actually the signal for the head-set goes from the same place as for the speakers - power amp output. So no difference should be there, unless quality decreases with the higher load (speakers) is connected.
Did you try to bypass the bass/treble adjustment circuit as well as all the filters?
Did you try to bypass the bass/treble adjustment circuit as well as all the filters?
OK
Don't know how I can do that.
edit: Unless you mean flipping the switch, obviously. And, yes I did all that can be done at the switches, knobs etc...
I saw something about by-passing "something" (sorry) by setting a source in to the preamp? Does that make sense - or what is that preamp thing? I never comprehended that...
Last edited:
Yes, I meant switches and knobs...
This is strange - I looked at Sansui 6060 schematic - simpler amp topology. SX-1080 has got more potential for better sound.
With tone control switch "off", preamp is bypassed. There is only "flat amp" section engaged, but this one is very transparent.
"Loudless" switch - better keep it "on" - it will raise the highs and lows a bit at low volume.
I don't have any other ideas so far 🙄
This is strange - I looked at Sansui 6060 schematic - simpler amp topology. SX-1080 has got more potential for better sound.
With tone control switch "off", preamp is bypassed. There is only "flat amp" section engaged, but this one is very transparent.
"Loudless" switch - better keep it "on" - it will raise the highs and lows a bit at low volume.
I don't have any other ideas so far 🙄
What if ...
I been thinking
What I imagine is that maybe I can pinpoint the problem a bit by using the sx1080 in a pre-amp function? If I remove the pre-amp bridge and plug a cable in pre-amp-out on the sx1080 and plug the other end in, for example, the AUX on another amplifier, which will be the power amplifier, will it not show if the sx1080 pre-amp or power amp is the problem? (Tone controls set to neutral on (power-)amplifier 2, and tone is adjusted on sx1080)
And vice versa, move the cable from the pre-out to pre-inp on sx1080 and the other end of the cable (source) to for example Tape-rec (out) from amplifier 2? (Tone controls set to neutral on sx1080, and tone adjustment on amplifier 2)
Yes, I know I don't know, so if this a big laugh
, please be gentle 
I been thinking
What I imagine is that maybe I can pinpoint the problem a bit by using the sx1080 in a pre-amp function? If I remove the pre-amp bridge and plug a cable in pre-amp-out on the sx1080 and plug the other end in, for example, the AUX on another amplifier, which will be the power amplifier, will it not show if the sx1080 pre-amp or power amp is the problem? (Tone controls set to neutral on (power-)amplifier 2, and tone is adjusted on sx1080)
And vice versa, move the cable from the pre-out to pre-inp on sx1080 and the other end of the cable (source) to for example Tape-rec (out) from amplifier 2? (Tone controls set to neutral on sx1080, and tone adjustment on amplifier 2)
Yes, I know I don't know, so if this a big laugh
, please be gentle
I been thinking
What I imagine is that maybe I can pinpoint the problem a bit by using the sx1080 in a pre-amp function? If I remove the pre-amp bridge and plug a cable in pre-amp-out on the sx1080 and plug the other end in, for example, the AUX on another amplifier, which will be the power amplifier, will it not show if the sx1080 pre-amp or power amp is the problem? (Tone controls set to neutral on (power-)amplifier 2, and tone is adjusted on sx1080)
And vice versa, move the cable from the pre-out to pre-inp on sx1080 and the other end of the cable (source) to for example Tape-rec (out) from amplifier 2? (Tone controls set to neutral on sx1080, and tone adjustment on amplifier 2)
Yes, I know I don't know, so if this a big laugh
In fact - not a bad idea
Take some amplifier that sounds the way you like. And try it the way you just suggested. Important thing - keep the volume as equal as possible when listening. The brain tends to prefer the one which is louder, even if in fact it's not the best one 😉
In fact - not a bad idea
Take some amplifier that sounds the way you like. And try it the way you just suggested. Important thing - keep the volume as equal as possible when listening. The brain tends to prefer the one which is louder, even if in fact it's not the best one 😉
OK, thanks - now I will have to reclaim the old Sansui from junior then, at least a little while...😀
If I can get your comments/corrections to my thoughts on the setup, before i get going?
Testing 1080 pre-amp:
Testing 1080 power-amp:
Alternatively, can f.inst. the CD-player safely be plugged directly to the pre-inp on 1080, instead of using the Sansui as source?
Br
Ole
Testing 1080 pre-amp:
- power OFF 1080 and Sansui
- remove preamp bridge plugs
- connect 1080 pre-amp out to Sansui AUX
- move speaker cables from 1080 to Sansui
- set bas/treble to neutral on Sansui
- set volume on 1080 to 0 initially?
- activate source (CD) on 1080
- power on 1080 and Sansui
- turn volume on Sansui to desired level pos. 12:00 ?
- carefully increase volume on 1080
- play with bas & treble on 1080 ? (and make a mental note of sound flavour)
Testing 1080 power-amp:
- Power off 1080 and Sansui
- Power off 1080 and Sansui
- move RCA cable from pre-out to pre-inp on 1080
- move RCA cable from AUX to Tape rec on Sansui
- move speakers to 1080
- set bas/treble to neutral, de-select loudness and tone on Sansui
- set volume on Sansui to 0
- set volume on 1080 to 0 ?
- activate source on Sansui (CD or tuner)
- power on 1080 and Sansui
- turn volume on 1080 to desired level
- carefully increase volume on Sansui to desired level ?
- play with bas & treble on 1080 ? or Sansui ? (and make a mental note of sound flavour)
Alternatively, can f.inst. the CD-player safely be plugged directly to the pre-inp on 1080, instead of using the Sansui as source?
Br
Ole
Hi Ole, just thought today - it would be interesting to ask how it goes - and here you are 🙂
A question. Do both 1080 and Sansui have pre-amp bridge plugs?
A question. Do both 1080 and Sansui have pre-amp bridge plugs?
🙂 Won't have the Sansui till late tomorrow, so testing starts thursday at the earliest
Nope - only the 1080 do.
http://www.elektroonika24.ee/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/s/dscn2688.jpg
You think my suggested set-up & sequence is OK?
I'm not 100% sure which unit will have the tone control on 2nd test, Sansui it should be, right?
The setup looks ok. Yes, for the second test tone control has to be on Sansui.
But also test both options with tone control off. Just pure power amp.
Well, I just had this response from Tapeheads:
Most receivers are at unity gain at around the 12:00 position. This means that the preamplifier is neither attenuating nor adding gain to the signal that is going to the power stage. Since we are essentially wanting the Sansui to act as a power amplifier, fed from the Pioneer (which is where volume control is being done), that's where volume needs to be set in the first test (Pioneer preamp)
If I recall correctly, the Sansui does not have pre-out and main-in jacks, so this can't be done in both directions. You need to send a variable signal into the Pioneer main-in jacks, and have no way to control volume with the setup you have now. This can't work.
Seems I lack the proper equipment to execute the desired setup.
I'm not even sure if he says that not even set-up #1 will work (I'll ask him), but I'll try it just the same.
Yes, the last sentence is very reasonable there
Yep.
Would you care to take s ahot on what to look in to?
The flat amplifier?
Done
Finally I'm done with this project 🙂
After replacing the two 2SA726 trannys on the Flat amp (GWG-112) with KSA992Fs, and the two 2SC1919 on the Tone control (AWG-056) with KSC1845Fs, I can say that this old guy is back at its former strenght. It was evident when the first tones came out of the speakers, that this last (resort 😱) replacements made the difference I was hoping for. It has been an unexpectedly long, and very winding road, that has lead to a satisfactory conclusion. Along the way I suffered a few setbacks, including 3 times fixing the power supply, and endless trouble shooting of the power amps.
The power supply is very very beaten - some places the printed lead have gone off the board, and I have had to make a jumper wire on the component side, to fix that. One of the power amps fried the 5-lead Q1 - this was solved with the combo-fix MTF (who else) has posted somewhere (I don't recall where), and also the horror of a broken-off wire on one of the D5 (STV4H) was in there for me. I'm lucky to have a good colleuage who did a perfect repair!
Even though I am aware that there is lot of the deeper understanding of how the different elements interact and work, that I still don't have, I have learnt a lot in this process, and this just goes to tell how invaluable these forums are. Without the help I have received here on diyaudio, on Tapeheads and AK, it would have been mission impossible.
A great 'Thank You' to valery
, and for those of you who just have been listening in, I hope that there has been something of value for you as well.
Bye for now
Finally I'm done with this project 🙂
After replacing the two 2SA726 trannys on the Flat amp (GWG-112) with KSA992Fs, and the two 2SC1919 on the Tone control (AWG-056) with KSC1845Fs, I can say that this old guy is back at its former strenght. It was evident when the first tones came out of the speakers, that this last (resort 😱) replacements made the difference I was hoping for. It has been an unexpectedly long, and very winding road, that has lead to a satisfactory conclusion. Along the way I suffered a few setbacks, including 3 times fixing the power supply, and endless trouble shooting of the power amps.
The power supply is very very beaten - some places the printed lead have gone off the board, and I have had to make a jumper wire on the component side, to fix that. One of the power amps fried the 5-lead Q1 - this was solved with the combo-fix MTF (who else) has posted somewhere (I don't recall where), and also the horror of a broken-off wire on one of the D5 (STV4H) was in there for me. I'm lucky to have a good colleuage who did a perfect repair!
Even though I am aware that there is lot of the deeper understanding of how the different elements interact and work, that I still don't have, I have learnt a lot in this process, and this just goes to tell how invaluable these forums are. Without the help I have received here on diyaudio, on Tapeheads and AK, it would have been mission impossible.
A great 'Thank You' to valery
, and for those of you who just have been listening in, I hope that there has been something of value for you as well.Bye for now
Ole, this is great! You had enough courage to bring it to success and now you're praised with second life of your metal "friend", some knowledge gained throughout the process and some new contacts somewhere in the world, which are always good to have 😉
It was pleasure to participate
All the best!
Cheers,
Valery
It was pleasure to participate
All the best!
Cheers,
Valery
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