Thanks. Those voltages are in line with expectations, by the way. the excel worksheet I uploaded previously predicts all the circuit voltages correctly to within 100 mV.
Here's something that might be helpful: rev. 31n board, with the component values labeled and C11-14, Q1 and Q2 fixed for the correct orientation for the components listed.
Larger image attached below.
/R
PS. @GerardA, nice work: that looks like the very first prototype phonoclone I built, which was also point-to-point. I wish I could say it brings back fond memories, but ... no. It was hell from start to finish. Circuit boards are well worth the modest investment, as they make construction faster, easier and less stressful - as well as being more professional looking.
The notion that PCBs sound worse than point-to-point is actually softof true: a 24 AWG wire used in point-to-point has much lower resistance than a similar length of PCB trace, so ground loops and other unpleasantness, if present, will be more noticeable on the circuit board, as I found. On the other hand things like ground planes and other low-noise / high speed circuit techniques can only be properly implemented from a PCB.
Here's something that might be helpful: rev. 31n board, with the component values labeled and C11-14, Q1 and Q2 fixed for the correct orientation for the components listed.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Larger image attached below.
/R
PS. @GerardA, nice work: that looks like the very first prototype phonoclone I built, which was also point-to-point. I wish I could say it brings back fond memories, but ... no. It was hell from start to finish. Circuit boards are well worth the modest investment, as they make construction faster, easier and less stressful - as well as being more professional looking.
The notion that PCBs sound worse than point-to-point is actually softof true: a 24 AWG wire used in point-to-point has much lower resistance than a similar length of PCB trace, so ground loops and other unpleasantness, if present, will be more noticeable on the circuit board, as I found. On the other hand things like ground planes and other low-noise / high speed circuit techniques can only be properly implemented from a PCB.
@rjm Thanks. It sure looks far less professional, but it is meant for me as a kind of proof of concept. It is built with cheap parts that I could find in the local store.
When it really sings I'm planning to repeat it with boards, double heavy trafo's and better parts. But then it will take weeks/months to find all the parts and listen to the alternatives.
In the meantime I can enjoy the music!
And maybe more people can share their experiences with different parts? Would be much appreciated!
Gerard.
When it really sings I'm planning to repeat it with boards, double heavy trafo's and better parts. But then it will take weeks/months to find all the parts and listen to the alternatives.
In the meantime I can enjoy the music!
And maybe more people can share their experiences with different parts? Would be much appreciated!
Gerard.
I get this feeling that another group buy of Phonoclone 3 boards will soon be in order.
The thing is though, the final unit cost will be nearly the same regardless of whether I order a lot from Olimex and distribute them or you order individually from Olimex directly. The volume discount is not great and there is an extra shipping cost if I act as intermediary.
If there is sufficient interest for 12 or more stereo sets the story changes somewhat, but otherwise I'd be charging $45 for a set of boards, including shipping. By yourself it would cost about $50.
However I understand that ordering boards directly from the manufacturer can be intimidating. So I'm willing to do it: if I get 5 people or more email me with requests, I'll go out and make a group order.
/R
The thing is though, the final unit cost will be nearly the same regardless of whether I order a lot from Olimex and distribute them or you order individually from Olimex directly. The volume discount is not great and there is an extra shipping cost if I act as intermediary.
If there is sufficient interest for 12 or more stereo sets the story changes somewhat, but otherwise I'd be charging $45 for a set of boards, including shipping. By yourself it would cost about $50.
However I understand that ordering boards directly from the manufacturer can be intimidating. So I'm willing to do it: if I get 5 people or more email me with requests, I'll go out and make a group order.
/R
GerardA said:
You certainly have a rigorous methodology. I was just surprised to see you using the original four vregs per channel version, the same one I started with back in early 2005.
All things considered it might be more efficient to take advantage of the considerable advances made since then and skip up to the most recent version. Grab a set of Phonoclone 3 boards and start your experimentation from there...
Richard
@rjm,
as i have previously placed an order for this board, i should be able to get a nice discount for repeating the order, even if there are some minor changes to the silk.
Let me know.
as i have previously placed an order for this board, i should be able to get a nice discount for repeating the order, even if there are some minor changes to the silk.
Let me know.
@ rjm
To late, I already finished the x-reg!
When I get the two missing OP27's I'll see if I can do the surgery and make everything to the last standards.
I think you can make a lot of people happy with a groupbuy, or better a store of spare boards? And somebody volunteering a webshop with all the needed parts in different qualities?
Before PC's got popular every town had a couple of electronic parts-shops, but now it is so difficult to find your parts.
I hope to report soon...
Gerard
To late, I already finished the x-reg!
When I get the two missing OP27's I'll see if I can do the surgery and make everything to the last standards.
I think you can make a lot of people happy with a groupbuy, or better a store of spare boards? And somebody volunteering a webshop with all the needed parts in different qualities?
Before PC's got popular every town had a couple of electronic parts-shops, but now it is so difficult to find your parts.
I hope to report soon...
Gerard
Attachments
Gerard,
It looks like you've been busy! Once you remove the vregs and the vreg input caps from the original point-to-point board and hook up the Xreg you'll be all set!
I'm happy to see someone actually do that mod. Let us know how it works out.
****
Rhys, and others, if I get a commitment for 3 stereo sets I'll go ahead and make an order with Olimex for 5 sets of the latest revision, keeping remaining 2 sets in stock. Other alternatives are welcome, just decide amongst yourselves what you want to do.
It looks like you've been busy! Once you remove the vregs and the vreg input caps from the original point-to-point board and hook up the Xreg you'll be all set!
I'm happy to see someone actually do that mod. Let us know how it works out.
****
Rhys, and others, if I get a commitment for 3 stereo sets I'll go ahead and make an order with Olimex for 5 sets of the latest revision, keeping remaining 2 sets in stock. Other alternatives are welcome, just decide amongst yourselves what you want to do.
Phonoclone 32e board orders
Today I placed a small order with Olimex for five sets of revision pc32e. The cost is $43 US per set of two boards, including shipping, payable to me via Paypal. Email if interested.
Richard
Today I placed a small order with Olimex for five sets of revision pc32e. The cost is $43 US per set of two boards, including shipping, payable to me via Paypal. Email if interested.
Richard
RJM:
how critical is matching R2 to the cart impedance. eg If I had a cart with an internal impedance of 50R, what range of values could I use and it not make any sonic difference?
Oddball I know!!
Fran
how critical is matching R2 to the cart impedance. eg If I had a cart with an internal impedance of 50R, what range of values could I use and it not make any sonic difference?
Oddball I know!!
Fran
I remember there was a comment to the effect that leaving it out entirely had a negative effect on the sound. I haven't played around with it.
As a rough estimate, lets say Zcart/2 < R2 < Zcart*2.
Board order update: one set left.
Richard
As a rough estimate, lets say Zcart/2 < R2 < Zcart*2.
Board order update: one set left.
Richard
Ok, Kits are ready to be ordered! I will send out a group email shortly, before requesting payments.
Re: Phonoclone 32e board orders
RJM -
This is great!!! Paypal Sent.
I'm going to be ordering my parts in the next few days and I'm going to be sticking with the values from the 32e schematic, EXCEPT for R11-14 I'm going order BOTH 33k and 30k and see which I like better.
Would there be anything else I should consider varying from the values on the schematic???
Everyone else, please feel free to chime in with your suggestions.
Thanks.
rjm said:
RJM -
This is great!!! Paypal Sent.
I'm going to be ordering my parts in the next few days and I'm going to be sticking with the values from the 32e schematic, EXCEPT for R11-14 I'm going order BOTH 33k and 30k and see which I like better.
Would there be anything else I should consider varying from the values on the schematic???
Everyone else, please feel free to chime in with your suggestions.
Thanks.
Just go with 30k for R11-14.
Main choices for the circuit components now boils down to:
1. What you use for C3.
2. What type of electrolytic capacitors: audio type, regular type, or low impedance type?
3. What values for R1 and R2 (depends on cartridge and desired gain)
see attached worksheet (Office 7 format)
Main choices for the circuit components now boils down to:
1. What you use for C3.
2. What type of electrolytic capacitors: audio type, regular type, or low impedance type?
3. What values for R1 and R2 (depends on cartridge and desired gain)
see attached worksheet (Office 7 format)
The small attached zip archive contains the following useful info for building the phonoclone:
pc32e schematic .png image
pc32e board .png image with parts values
word file showing connections for power supply and phono chassis
excel file containing three sheets: the BOM, the phonoclone gain calculator for determining R1 and R2, and the xreg output voltage calculator
(office 7 formats)
questions/comments/corrections welcome
pc32e schematic .png image
pc32e board .png image with parts values
word file showing connections for power supply and phono chassis
excel file containing three sheets: the BOM, the phonoclone gain calculator for determining R1 and R2, and the xreg output voltage calculator
(office 7 formats)
questions/comments/corrections welcome
RJM -
Thanks, the info you provided in the two previous posts will come in very handy when ordering parts (and building my phoneclone).
Regards,
Thanks, the info you provided in the two previous posts will come in very handy when ordering parts (and building my phoneclone).
Regards,
I realised I haven't redone some of the earlier demonstrations since I fixed the capacitors on my Phonoclone 3. Thus -
Some new music:
Leonard_Cohen_Hey_that's_no_way_to_say_goodbye_1644.wav
enya_orinoco_flow_1644.wav
Time_Out_Kathys_Waltz_1644.wav
And a new noise measurement: (output noise, unity recording gain, dB scale for 1 V RMS = 0dB)
phonoclone_noise_2496_new_54.wav
[Denon DL-103 attached, turntable, internet router powered off, nominal phonoclone gain configuration: 58 dB at 1kHz]
Some new music:
Leonard_Cohen_Hey_that's_no_way_to_say_goodbye_1644.wav
enya_orinoco_flow_1644.wav
Time_Out_Kathys_Waltz_1644.wav
And a new noise measurement: (output noise, unity recording gain, dB scale for 1 V RMS = 0dB)
phonoclone_noise_2496_new_54.wav
[Denon DL-103 attached, turntable, internet router powered off, nominal phonoclone gain configuration: 58 dB at 1kHz]