Jkeny,
Thanks for this info.
Ok, your next mod is... setup the unit in Bi-amp mode and remove Speaker PCB and wire direct (following schematics) to bi-amp speakers via new binding posts/caps/wiring. I bet this will be one of the most important mods to be done!!! (getting rid of that stock junk wire, all that pcb trace and the relays/etc...!
Thanks for this info.
Ok, your next mod is... setup the unit in Bi-amp mode and remove Speaker PCB and wire direct (following schematics) to bi-amp speakers via new binding posts/caps/wiring. I bet this will be one of the most important mods to be done!!! (getting rid of that stock junk wire, all that pcb trace and the relays/etc...!
Hi CrazyD,
I'm ahead of you! I've done all those mods already - bypassed speaker PCB - I changed the 0.47uF caps to ground after the inductor to polyproylene film & foil. I will nee to give a long audition!
Did you ever identify where to connect the external clock - the DSP board is double sided & I can't find anywhere to easily connect with pin 30 of the DIR AK4114?
I'm ahead of you! I've done all those mods already - bypassed speaker PCB - I changed the 0.47uF caps to ground after the inductor to polyproylene film & foil. I will nee to give a long audition!
Did you ever identify where to connect the external clock - the DSP board is double sided & I can't find anywhere to easily connect with pin 30 of the DIR AK4114?
Hi,
Yes I have indentified where to connect external clock (it is definiately needed bad!!).
You have to take off the DSP board (1 screw, squeeze the plastic hold-downs, and pull up to release it since it has a daughter board connection underneath it.)
Look for IC10005, near top right corner with the bottom of the board looking at you. There is a resistor (R1024) that is near the very top corner of the board. You can see this is going into IC1005 very close nearby. You remove R1024 which is marked 330 (33ohm). You solder you clock wire carefully to the lead that is NOT going to IC1005, so the lead that looks to go into the white area of the top of the circuit board. You can take a multi-meter and do a continuity test from Pin30 of IC1008 to that solder pad at the very top corner of the board and you will see it will be a dead on contact since this is the clock line to that chip. Solder there and make sure you clock output is 3.3v (not 5v) and you should be rocking and rolling!!!!!!!
The stock jitter must be very high, two crystals? What were they thinking? I think the clock mod might be one or the largest improvments based on what I am seeing here and the jitter must be so high the player is losing bits of info and we are never getting the true potential from these units??? Test it out and report back. The clock needed is 24.576mhz.....
Yes I have indentified where to connect external clock (it is definiately needed bad!!).
You have to take off the DSP board (1 screw, squeeze the plastic hold-downs, and pull up to release it since it has a daughter board connection underneath it.)
Look for IC10005, near top right corner with the bottom of the board looking at you. There is a resistor (R1024) that is near the very top corner of the board. You can see this is going into IC1005 very close nearby. You remove R1024 which is marked 330 (33ohm). You solder you clock wire carefully to the lead that is NOT going to IC1005, so the lead that looks to go into the white area of the top of the circuit board. You can take a multi-meter and do a continuity test from Pin30 of IC1008 to that solder pad at the very top corner of the board and you will see it will be a dead on contact since this is the clock line to that chip. Solder there and make sure you clock output is 3.3v (not 5v) and you should be rocking and rolling!!!!!!!
The stock jitter must be very high, two crystals? What were they thinking? I think the clock mod might be one or the largest improvments based on what I am seeing here and the jitter must be so high the player is losing bits of info and we are never getting the true potential from these units??? Test it out and report back. The clock needed is 24.576mhz.....
Do you mean the R1047 33 ohm which comes from pin 5 of IC1005 - I have circled in the attached schematic - you have an XR57?
I looked at this before but was worried that taking it out because it cuts out another circuit which goes through C1012!
I traced the continuation of R1047 circuit to the top of the board where it disapperas through a via but i can't pick it up on the other side of the board (where the AK4114 IC is) and find out how it gets to pin 30 of this IC. I figured it best to connect as close to IC as possible but if not possible then cutting the trace before it goes through via & maybe soldering into via would be a safe connection!
What after-market clock are you using?
I looked at this before but was worried that taking it out because it cuts out another circuit which goes through C1012!
I traced the continuation of R1047 circuit to the top of the board where it disapperas through a via but i can't pick it up on the other side of the board (where the AK4114 IC is) and find out how it gets to pin 30 of this IC. I figured it best to connect as close to IC as possible but if not possible then cutting the trace before it goes through via & maybe soldering into via would be a safe connection!
What after-market clock are you using?
my bad, yes I meant R1047, I have a XR57 sitting in front of me right now. IC1008 pin 30 just wants to see 24.576mhz to operate. I only see the stock clocking circuit feeding pin30 of IC1008 and no where else here on my XR57 schematic. There is no circuit on the other side of C1012, that is GROUND, that is just a decoupling cap for the stock junky clock system output. You can remove C1012 and R1047, and inject a 24.576mhz freq. from outboard clock into solder pad of R1047 that feeds to Pin30 of IC1008 and your good to go!
I am using DEXA D-Clock, which has a built in isolation transformer so it isnt subject to main noise injection with the isolation of the power supply ground to the clock ground. I tried a battery on it but it didnt make that much if any difference unbeleiveably compared to the other clock I have used.
I am using DEXA D-Clock, which has a built in isolation transformer so it isnt subject to main noise injection with the isolation of the power supply ground to the clock ground. I tried a battery on it but it didnt make that much if any difference unbeleiveably compared to the other clock I have used.
Hi Crazyd,
Did you look at the schematic page I attached? If you trace the signal back from pin 30 of AK4114 it connects to R1047 but just before this R there is a branch through C1012 (10pF cap) to pin 7 of the IC1005 and on to pin 4 (gnd).
Now maybe this is all just a gnd connection!
Is your DSP board different to mine - here's the pcb layout for both sides - oops can't post it here - too big - It's page 97 in my service manual!
I'll post a pic when I get a chance
Did you look at the schematic page I attached? If you trace the signal back from pin 30 of AK4114 it connects to R1047 but just before this R there is a branch through C1012 (10pF cap) to pin 7 of the IC1005 and on to pin 4 (gnd).
Now maybe this is all just a gnd connection!
Is your DSP board different to mine - here's the pcb layout for both sides - oops can't post it here - too big - It's page 97 in my service manual!
I'll post a pic when I get a chance
Hi,
C1012 is just a decoupling capacitor, there is ground on the other side of that cap. That and R1047 can both be removed and all you do is inject a new clock into the pad going to pin30. simple. We have the same board. My board is stampdated August 4th 2007 with a black stamp. I bet this is the most beneficial improvement in the unit.
C1012 is just a decoupling capacitor, there is ground on the other side of that cap. That and R1047 can both be removed and all you do is inject a new clock into the pad going to pin30. simple. We have the same board. My board is stampdated August 4th 2007 with a black stamp. I bet this is the most beneficial improvement in the unit.
Cool Crazy_D,
I was hoping that was the case. Minimising the length of trace going to the IC1008 will help to keep the amount of introduced jitter to a minimum. I think I have identified a point on the dsp pcb closer to the IC which has continuity with pin 30 - it's too big to post here - it can be downloaded from here under the name "XR57 DSP PCB board.pdf" :http://www.4shared.com/dir/5422093/4db6362a/Digital_Amps_Service_Manuals.html
Dexa clock looks good - what other clocks have you tried?
I agree, this may well be the most significant upgrade! When are you planning this install? Report back when you have done some listening..
Have you done any other mods?
Edit: I have a crystek low jitter 25.476Mhz clock coming to me which I may try to use! But I may go with a Guido Tent module instead!
I was hoping that was the case. Minimising the length of trace going to the IC1008 will help to keep the amount of introduced jitter to a minimum. I think I have identified a point on the dsp pcb closer to the IC which has continuity with pin 30 - it's too big to post here - it can be downloaded from here under the name "XR57 DSP PCB board.pdf" :http://www.4shared.com/dir/5422093/4db6362a/Digital_Amps_Service_Manuals.html
Dexa clock looks good - what other clocks have you tried?
I agree, this may well be the most significant upgrade! When are you planning this install? Report back when you have done some listening..
Have you done any other mods?
Edit: I have a crystek low jitter 25.476Mhz clock coming to me which I may try to use! But I may go with a Guido Tent module instead!
Hi,
that point might work but it is touchy, compared to using the solder pad on the other side right on the edge. But the whole point here too is the stock clocking circuit must be so high in jitter that this trace is really a negligble thing when a ultra low jitter clock is induced after the resistor/cap have been removed. I feel information is being lost in the AKM IC1008 chip with the stock clocking. I wish I had a way of measureing jitter here at the moment but I bet any money that its really high. This should be stunning!
I had used the Audiocom Superclock 4. But I like the DEXA D-Clock so much better.
I will be using HDMI Audio input from a HDMI 1.2a source and running straight pure PCM, or DSD into the XR57. Also, there is a clock for the HDMI RX chip that I am VERY curious about as well as chaning since its 27mhz chip.....
that point might work but it is touchy, compared to using the solder pad on the other side right on the edge. But the whole point here too is the stock clocking circuit must be so high in jitter that this trace is really a negligble thing when a ultra low jitter clock is induced after the resistor/cap have been removed. I feel information is being lost in the AKM IC1008 chip with the stock clocking. I wish I had a way of measureing jitter here at the moment but I bet any money that its really high. This should be stunning!
I had used the Audiocom Superclock 4. But I like the DEXA D-Clock so much better.
I will be using HDMI Audio input from a HDMI 1.2a source and running straight pure PCM, or DSD into the XR57. Also, there is a clock for the HDMI RX chip that I am VERY curious about as well as chaning since its 27mhz chip.....
Are you not using the SPDif input then?
The input circuitry on the XR57 is different from all previous models (other models use a pulse transformer circuit). I don't know if it's better/worse than previous or just a cost cutting exercise?
Another area that might be worth addressing for improved sonics!
The input circuitry on the XR57 is different from all previous models (other models use a pulse transformer circuit). I don't know if it's better/worse than previous or just a cost cutting exercise?
Another area that might be worth addressing for improved sonics!
NO SPDIF HERE! Only for computer audio down the road with my lossless files and a USB to SPDIF converter, or maybe a actual soundcard with HDMI outs......
I am running nothing but HDMI from a modified DVD player at HDMI 1.2a.
SACD-DSD through HDMI 1.2a into XR-57 is stunning! (this was when everything was stock!)
I am running nothing but HDMI from a modified DVD player at HDMI 1.2a.
SACD-DSD through HDMI 1.2a into XR-57 is stunning! (this was when everything was stock!)
This is the ultimate goal for me also - a PC based Music Server - I'm thinking along the lines of PeuFeu's Ethernet based delivery of I2S & eventually tapping into the I2S inputs inside the XR57. Haven't really looked at this yet!
SACD - DSD is interesting - I have one SACD disk Steely Dan, Gaucho - can only play it on a Sony DAV DZ500 (HT ina a box) - a self contained DVD + s-master digital amp Home theatre amp - but no outputs from this to feed to panny.
What modded DVD player you using - Oppo?
"They" say HDMI is technically more flawed than even SPDIF! HAve you compared both?
SACD - DSD is interesting - I have one SACD disk Steely Dan, Gaucho - can only play it on a Sony DAV DZ500 (HT ina a box) - a self contained DVD + s-master digital amp Home theatre amp - but no outputs from this to feed to panny.
What modded DVD player you using - Oppo?
"They" say HDMI is technically more flawed than even SPDIF! HAve you compared both?
Hi,
Yes using a modified Oppo DV-980.
I compared both coaxial SPDIF and HDMI going into XR57 and just changed inputs from the front faceplate to switch back and forth.
HDMI wins hands down. So much more detail and emotion in the music. SPDIF sounded compressed in comparison. Also since the only way to send SACD signals to the XR-57 (besides HDMI) is just using the standard Analog outputs R&L, I compared SACD's going out analog to the XR-57, and then compared the SACD going through the HDMI into the XR-57. What a huge difference! HDMI was so much clearer, detalistic and present.
What type of information exactly is HDMI sending? PCM for Redbook? DSD for SACD? or I2S to a receiver chip???? If you know let me know.
Yes using a modified Oppo DV-980.
I compared both coaxial SPDIF and HDMI going into XR57 and just changed inputs from the front faceplate to switch back and forth.
HDMI wins hands down. So much more detail and emotion in the music. SPDIF sounded compressed in comparison. Also since the only way to send SACD signals to the XR-57 (besides HDMI) is just using the standard Analog outputs R&L, I compared SACD's going out analog to the XR-57, and then compared the SACD going through the HDMI into the XR-57. What a huge difference! HDMI was so much clearer, detalistic and present.
What type of information exactly is HDMI sending? PCM for Redbook? DSD for SACD? or I2S to a receiver chip???? If you know let me know.
CrazyD,
You are the first to give an impression of SPDIF Vs HDMI - well done - I asked this question earlier in the thread!
There is a soundcard that outputs HDMI, Sapphire, I think which I might get to test out but apparently sound over HDMI has not settled down yet!
I think my tweaking at this point needs a better, cleaner input signal - I'm just running off a cheap DVD player with SPDIF output so maybe battery PS is not showing nuances in the sound.
As you say there is a crystal on the HDMI board which might be worth replacing with a low jitter version or an external low jitter clock. I know you mentioned the speed of this clock but I can't find it!
Edit: scrap that, i found it 27MHz clock - are you sure, I seem to remember that HDMI operates at 65Mhz?
Actually, I just see that Asus has announced 2 new HDMI souncards
You are the first to give an impression of SPDIF Vs HDMI - well done - I asked this question earlier in the thread!
There is a soundcard that outputs HDMI, Sapphire, I think which I might get to test out but apparently sound over HDMI has not settled down yet!
I think my tweaking at this point needs a better, cleaner input signal - I'm just running off a cheap DVD player with SPDIF output so maybe battery PS is not showing nuances in the sound.
As you say there is a crystal on the HDMI board which might be worth replacing with a low jitter version or an external low jitter clock. I know you mentioned the speed of this clock but I can't find it!
Edit: scrap that, i found it 27MHz clock - are you sure, I seem to remember that HDMI operates at 65Mhz?
Actually, I just see that Asus has announced 2 new HDMI souncards
CrazyD,
Meant to ask - was this 2 channel you were comparing between SPDIF & HDMI?
Did you connect the dexa clock yet?
Meant to ask - was this 2 channel you were comparing between SPDIF & HDMI?
Did you connect the dexa clock yet?
I've been through some tests while waiting for my parts to arrive & here's my findings, mainly on battery power:
My initial trial of battery power was not as positive as reported in the thread "Anyone interested in a digital amplifier project". I wondered if it was because I was missing some parallel caps on this PS or because I'm running the amp off a stepdown trafo which cleans up the PS?
I tried some large caps (10,000uF) between PS & main board & boy does it make a difference! A lot more punch & bass presence with the PS but the battery PS lacks this (and no extra smoothness or sparkle) - so I'm staying with PS at the moment!
I tried a number of caps I had here including the Elna(Cerafine?) I took out of an old Pioneer amp cap, some reportedly good Roe caps & BHC which was the best.
I then tried 2 of these & I noticed that the front panel doesn't light up - the 2nd relay switch doesn't trip! - the double click when you turn on the unit - the second one seems to be the relay switch for the front panel lights etc. The extra 10,000uf must have slowed down some voltage that trips this second relay. It didn't make the sound any punchier & I think lost some of the sparkle at the top end!.
I haven't split the PS as Eld did so all my PS is going through this cap. I will try the PS split.
Any news on clock upgrade CrazyD? I'll PM you about Oppo mods!
Edit: Oops your not accepting emails - I just wondered about the Oppo mods you did (I have one on order) but I didn't want to hijack this thread
My initial trial of battery power was not as positive as reported in the thread "Anyone interested in a digital amplifier project". I wondered if it was because I was missing some parallel caps on this PS or because I'm running the amp off a stepdown trafo which cleans up the PS?
I tried some large caps (10,000uF) between PS & main board & boy does it make a difference! A lot more punch & bass presence with the PS but the battery PS lacks this (and no extra smoothness or sparkle) - so I'm staying with PS at the moment!
I tried a number of caps I had here including the Elna(Cerafine?) I took out of an old Pioneer amp cap, some reportedly good Roe caps & BHC which was the best.
I then tried 2 of these & I noticed that the front panel doesn't light up - the 2nd relay switch doesn't trip! - the double click when you turn on the unit - the second one seems to be the relay switch for the front panel lights etc. The extra 10,000uf must have slowed down some voltage that trips this second relay. It didn't make the sound any punchier & I think lost some of the sparkle at the top end!.
I haven't split the PS as Eld did so all my PS is going through this cap. I will try the PS split.
Any news on clock upgrade CrazyD? I'll PM you about Oppo mods!
Edit: Oops your not accepting emails - I just wondered about the Oppo mods you did (I have one on order) but I didn't want to hijack this thread
The ASUS AV1 comes with 3HDMI ports. Looks like a nice basis
for a 6 channel raw PCM approach .
You'd just need to mod 3 XRxx. 😀
Cheers
for a 6 channel raw PCM approach .
You'd just need to mod 3 XRxx. 😀
Cheers
Thanks Soundcheck,
I will look into this Asus soundcard!
Don't know what you mean by:
Edit: Just realised I looked at these s/cards before - just waiting until they're generally available & reviewed!
I will look into this Asus soundcard!
Don't know what you mean by:
Edit: Just realised I looked at these s/cards before - just waiting until they're generally available & reviewed!
jkeny said:
If you want to have 6 channels uncompressed PCM over HDMI you need to have 3 Panasonic Amps. Since you can just transfer 2 channel uncompressed raw PCM per HDMI port. 3 amps=3*modding 😉
Cheers
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