Looking at the response of the woofer is plays at 85 dB/m and the peak at 3k Hz has a sudden drop. That drop is not visible in your simulation. The owner of the speaker complains about a muted treble and missing mid range with the stock crossover. My solution will address these problems.
That's not my simulation, that's the designer's simulation, from measurements, with phase. It probably matches reality almost exactly, except for the smoothing of course. Anyway, the mfg. page does show a breakup peak around 3kHz, but everyone else seems to measure it closer to 5kHz. Here's a sim of Paul's low pass using Parts Express' measurements. You can see it's pretty comparable to what he got with his own measurements (that being what I posted before):
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Most woofers have two peaks. After the first peak most woofers are no longer usable. The tweeter will have to cover the mid range on its own. My solution will fix the problems. Trust me.
So, this woofer has a second nasty peak at 5k Hz? All the more reason to filter out its mid range all together and let the tweeter take over.
So, this woofer has a second nasty peak at 5k Hz? All the more reason to filter out its mid range all together and let the tweeter take over.
I'll check it out, I guess, but I don't follow what you were trying to describe. Do you want 10Ω + 2.2uF series RC connected in parallel with the 6.8uF in the woofer filter, and then the 2.2uF in the tweeter filter replaced with 6.8uF? That does this (dark line) and also leaves phase about 90° out of alignment at xover:
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Besides, I find it amusing/disturbing when people complain here about the sound of their speakers, and then others jump in and try to make them like the sound. "It's supposed to sound like that."
And remove that back-stabbing 0.22 uF capacitor. The fancy idea is that the woofer should let through some sound above 10k Hz to aid the failing response of the tweeter, but the result is two drivers totally out of phase with each other, mudding up the little sound there is to make the treble an annoying slush of noise.
That's not the idea. It's not like I think this is some kind of incredible speaker (it's designed to be cheap and easy, for goodness sake), but you should really stop spouting out crossover changes as if you know for a fact what they do, especially since all your changes seem to do the opposite of what you say.
The 0.22uF creates a notch that cuts the woofer down harder from ~7.5-14kHz. It's trying to knock down the worst of the break up more. If you remove it, you'll let through more sound in that 7.5-14kHz range, not less. Above that is where it actually lets more sound through and affects the phase, your complaints. It's like -60dB there.
If you're going to make specific technical criticisms of someone else's design, that's fine by me, but back it up.
The 0.22uF creates a notch that cuts the woofer down harder from ~7.5-14kHz. It's trying to knock down the worst of the break up more. If you remove it, you'll let through more sound in that 7.5-14kHz range, not less. Above that is where it actually lets more sound through and affects the phase, your complaints. It's like -60dB there.
If you're going to make specific technical criticisms of someone else's design, that's fine by me, but back it up.
I will be curious about many things. I would have to say, for one, that when I started this thread, the bass was heavier than the rest, but that I have flattened it out much since then. When I get the cabinets out of clear-coating and fully finally assembled, I will make a point of getting back here with a comment about the tonal balance.
Cheers,
Mark
Hi,
I got them all done and set up. These speakers must have appropriate placement. As dumptruck stated, they're cheap and easy, and so I'm glad this is my first DIY pair. I think they sound great for the use of such inexpensive drivers.
I have them positioned with two feet between them and the wall behind, and at least 2 feet from the side wall, on 14" peanut stands. I am in the process of building new stands.
As far as the sound, I'd have to say they are what they say they are - flat to 45 Hz. If anything, I'd say all the audible frequencies are there, and in the end they may be a tad bassy - maybe not. Overall, they beat the heck out of my computer speakers.
I got them all done and set up. These speakers must have appropriate placement. As dumptruck stated, they're cheap and easy, and so I'm glad this is my first DIY pair. I think they sound great for the use of such inexpensive drivers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have them positioned with two feet between them and the wall behind, and at least 2 feet from the side wall, on 14" peanut stands. I am in the process of building new stands.
As far as the sound, I'd have to say they are what they say they are - flat to 45 Hz. If anything, I'd say all the audible frequencies are there, and in the end they may be a tad bassy - maybe not. Overall, they beat the heck out of my computer speakers.
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I keep eating them. OK. So I have had a chance to break these speakers in and play them in another house- a very open space. I am currently locked into a smaller space where I can't make much noise or the neighbors will complain.
The sound today must have hit in the mid 90s (dB) because I was cranking it, and played a bunch of different music. These speaks love dub step (a lot). What I have had to do was take a step aside from what I was expecting and what I was getting. I did not think I had to respect these speakers like they were full-range, I thought I could put them on a shelf or a table-top, or some such thing. This is not the case.
These speakers have to be respected. They have to be positioned properly in the room in order to play flat. They need square footage in order to do that. They sound like some number of full-range speakers.
For the driers that are being used, I would have to say, "wow". This is a great design, and these drivers appear to be being used to their fullest. This is not the resolution of expensive gear - but the sound is of very high quality - the best that anyone can get for this amount of money. It is also fully there - bass, mid-range and treble.
Cheers,
Mark
I wanted to get back after sufficient time to listen and relax and get oriented with this new development and feel confident about the opinion I have developed.
I have, in the past, been a fan of the Tripath sound. Along with these speakers, I bought and have been using a Dayton DTA-100A, rated at 50 wpc. I no longer have my SPL meter, but I think I'm getting high 90s on peaks with clean sound.
I also found going the opposite way of anything I suggested in this thread, to add more bass on certain kinds of music, and had great success doing that. I'd guess it hit at 100 dB. I placed the speaks about 1 foot (edit: ok, less than that) in front of a wall (big framed, drywalled area), on make-shift stands, and gave a 2000-square-foot house sound throughout. You see, I work on houses during the trim-phase, and this is my boom box. The wall did add plenty of vibration. This is with good overall sound!
Perhaps one may make issues on timber - I do not hear anything notably irritating or off timber. I'm getting flat output, very good resolution and simple, enjoyable imaging in a big empty house - these little speaks work for that. In the very near-field at home (desktop), the movie watching sound is very accurate, theater-like and nice! These speakers seem to have opened up well with break-in, along with the break-in of the amp. At $145 for speaker kits and binding posts, I think this just has to be a "best buy".
Cheers,
Mark
I have, in the past, been a fan of the Tripath sound. Along with these speakers, I bought and have been using a Dayton DTA-100A, rated at 50 wpc. I no longer have my SPL meter, but I think I'm getting high 90s on peaks with clean sound.
I also found going the opposite way of anything I suggested in this thread, to add more bass on certain kinds of music, and had great success doing that. I'd guess it hit at 100 dB. I placed the speaks about 1 foot (edit: ok, less than that) in front of a wall (big framed, drywalled area), on make-shift stands, and gave a 2000-square-foot house sound throughout. You see, I work on houses during the trim-phase, and this is my boom box. The wall did add plenty of vibration. This is with good overall sound!
Perhaps one may make issues on timber - I do not hear anything notably irritating or off timber. I'm getting flat output, very good resolution and simple, enjoyable imaging in a big empty house - these little speaks work for that. In the very near-field at home (desktop), the movie watching sound is very accurate, theater-like and nice! These speakers seem to have opened up well with break-in, along with the break-in of the amp. At $145 for speaker kits and binding posts, I think this just has to be a "best buy".
Cheers,
Mark
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