AE TD6M as midrange maybe ?
With a 15 inch woofer the X-over crossover frequency with the midrange cannot be too high; 400 Hz max, dependent on the woofer characteristics in the mid frequency region.
So a 3 inch midrange combination will become at the limit.
ATC crosses at 380 Hz with their 3 inch midrange. That woofer has a Sd = 774 cm2 (they specify a diameter of 314 mm). That is already a little less than the mean 15 inch driver.
We have to find a 15 inch woofer with a not too high Le value, that it can operate up to a few hundred Hz.
With a 15 inch woofer the X-over crossover frequency with the midrange cannot be too high; 400 Hz max, dependent on the woofer characteristics in the mid frequency region.
So a 3 inch midrange combination will become at the limit.
ATC crosses at 380 Hz with their 3 inch midrange. That woofer has a Sd = 774 cm2 (they specify a diameter of 314 mm). That is already a little less than the mean 15 inch driver.
We have to find a 15 inch woofer with a not too high Le value, that it can operate up to a few hundred Hz.
Could achieve 91dB half space with 1-2 10" drivers.
Seas CA26RE4X one of these has 91 dB efficiency, should be able to get down to F3 of 36 Hz
Satori WO24P-4 two of these would work for 91dB, but expensive.
I wouldn't call anything with a driver larger then a 10" on the front a "tower".
I'm using the WO24p-4 at the moment (1 per side) together with the 5" satori and the satori Neo tweeter. It's a wonderful driver.
I'm also not the intended audience for this project ;-)
I'm using the WO24p-4 at the moment (1 per side) together with the 5" satori and the satori Neo tweeter. It's a wonderful driver.
I'm also not the intended audience for this project ;-)
That is my thought as well. I could maybe see stretching it to 12 inches... maybe. But 15 no longer qualifies as a tower in my book. I suppose we could always side mount a larger driver or two though.
+1 for AE TD6M and also I like lower XO point for woofer/mid anyways. the closest we got was the Eminence Kappa 15FLA. we do not have much options for woofer. they are just simply not many single driver out there w specs we need, so maybe we may have to look at this from another perspective, instead of looking for a driver to match our needs maybe we can find a way to get close to the goal with the drivers we have available. anyhow another driver would be FaitalPro 15PR400. needs quite large cabinet tho (~200 liters).
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you ll need a woofer with sensitivity close to 100 (98-99db) do be able to achieve close to 92db in over all sensitivity after baffle step and all that 😉 with a single 91db driver you will end up with close to about 82-83db.
But have to keep in mind that this is not a regular home hifi WAF friendly tower. a tower with this specs will be gigantic, it is just physics.
Still here! Just have a lot on my plate right now...
What about using two Faital 12FH500? They can be had in 16ohm impedance, so may be possible to use in the same chamber because of parallel connection, and they seem well suited for this application?
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WTF....? Won't Tinkerbell Ffffffffffff.... forget? Or insert other suitable f-word.
What about using two Faital 12FH500? They can be had in 16ohm impedance, so may be possible to use in the same chamber because of parallel connection, and they seem well suited for this application?
Edit:
WTF....? Won't Tinkerbell Ffffffffffff.... forget? Or insert other suitable f-word.
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Hi Aatto,
Probably, one of the two drivers option below will achieve the targets for the LF driver, but I think they are available just here in Brazil, the costs wouldn't be a problem with the current ratio (4,20 R$/U$), but I don't know if this constrain is too much for a world wide project.
Snake HPX2150 (Price = ~U$180 )
Sensitivity: 99dB SPL
Fs: 41,00 Hz
Re: 4,7 ohms
Qms: 9,627
Qes: 0,245
Qts: 0,239
Vas: 150,8 L
Sd: 0,088 m²
Xmax: 8,5 mm
Le: 1,08 mH
Bl: 20,157 T/m
No: 4,4%
Mms: 105,0 g
Pe: 800 W
Snake ESX155 (Price = ~U$160 )
Sensitivity: 97dB SPL
Fs: 35,00 Hz
Re: 5,0 ohms
Qms: 7,123
Qes: 0,362
Qts: 0,345
Vas: 193,0 L
Sd: 0,088 m²
Xmax: 9,5 mm
Le: 0,92 mH
Bl: 18,5 T/m
No: 2,6%
Mms: 107,0 g
Pe: 600 W
WTF 😀 good one.
Hey KaffiMann.
Faital 12FH500 is not easy to find here also, it is 300$+ which would be around 1200$ for 2 pairs 🙁
FaitalPro 15PR400 looks ok, but a 15 incher...
How bad would it be if we use 2x 4 ohms in series 😀
like 2x ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 or SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-4 not so bad QMS and we probably will be close to 90-91db half space 😀 (haven't done any sims yet)
Hi LORDSANSUI
the first one has very low QTS and large VAS, f3 would be around 60Hz +,
second one has low sensitivity, and also f3 would be around 40-41Hz with such huge VAS.
ok, i'm learning and trying to help at the same time.
So the QTS needs to be > 0,4 with the lowest VAS as possible. What is the target for F3?
Which formulas are you using to calculate f3?
for Vb specified: (150L?)
lpha (a) = Vas/Vb
F3 = Fs*a^0.44
Fb = Fs*a^0.31
or
Vb=20*Vas*Qts^3.3
Fb=Fs*0.42*Qts^-0.96
F3=Fs*0.28*Qts^-1.4
or other
So the QTS needs to be > 0,4 with the lowest VAS as possible. What is the target for F3?
Which formulas are you using to calculate f3?
for Vb specified: (150L?)
lpha (a) = Vas/Vb
F3 = Fs*a^0.44
Fb = Fs*a^0.31
or
Vb=20*Vas*Qts^3.3
Fb=Fs*0.42*Qts^-0.96
F3=Fs*0.28*Qts^-1.4
or other
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this is kinda off topic, but there are a lot of factors playing here, the simplest way ( i don't remember where did i pick this up but this usually works for me ) is : FS/QTS*0.39 . this will give you the a good guess of what f3 would be in given volume (usually equals to VAS). but learning how to simulate this is the way to go.
I m learning too as we progress 🙂 I certainly have better understanding since a few month back. I m sure you will have better answers if you search or start a new topic 😉
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TD12S would maybe a better option here, AE TD15H has such enormous VAS of 467 liter :O based on Paul's calculation TD12S will have 89db full space, which is fine IMO 😀
It's mostly under 200$ here.
2 x 4ohm in series is OK, but then you should make a separate volume for each, not a big problem, will make the bracing job easier.
I gave you 3 options, not one. I use the 15S and X and have useful sealed Qts in much smaller boxes, circa 45Hz / 140L and 60Hz / 60L IIRC.
89dB is in boring domestic box territory.
Regarding 4ohm 12" drivers, the Eminence Delta Pro 12-450-4 might work, but it is not optimal... The hunt continues...
Edit:
Beyma 12WR400 looks nice.
Edit:
Beyma 12WR400 looks nice.
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Thanks for feedback. I was trying to understand your point of view to be more helpfull and pricise, I will apply the mentioned equation in the database I have and see if there is any good option. No need for other thread.
I thought this might be a helpful resource for the driver search. I think some of the drivers here might not be available anymore, but still should help.
Loudspeaker Database
Loudspeaker Database