Open source speaker project?

[mordikai]

My, my. Did we get up on the wrong side of the bed today?

I really think you have misjudged the intent of my post. I was not trashing the idea of "DIYaudio speaker projects" or trying to suggest that there be only one "uber alles" loudspeaker project attempted. It just struck me that unless you narrow down the scope for such an effort you cannot really expect to achieve your goal. Like amplifiers, loudspeakers can be many different things and not everyone will be interested in the same project concept.

My point was just that you need to come up with a list of design goals for DIYaudio project #1, #2, #3, and so on. Whom ever is skilled at designing loudspeakers that fit the description of each project can contribute to that project. For example there may be one DIYer who really knows how to make a great closed box mini-monitor with a passive crossover but has no clue about designing an open baffle system with an active crossover. Etc. Everyone has their sweet spot or comfort zone. I think that a POLL would be a great way to get input and rank what type of loudspeaker project should be done first, second, third, etc...

I was hoping that my post would generate some discussion about WHAT should be the first project attempted as a group effort DIYaudio loudspeaker. And then what should be the second, etc. But I guess it missed the mark. You are welcome to go back and re-read my post and revisit this idea. I think it is a good one. I never intended to dis-incentivize anything, just to focus the efforts into productive paths.

Charlie- I reread you're post and still think my take was more or less accurate in accessing your condescending tone. Toward the end you do offer words of encouragement but the overall jest suggested this project was naive and futile.
I will however take your word as to what your intentions were because you are an asset to diyaudio in many ways and I really have appreciated your efforts at Burning Amp.
So my apologies if I seemed overly bugged, I'm not really. I'm sitting on my bed listening to Fred Anderson on diy continuums with a pair of diy parallel 86 amps. What could be better?

 

[mordikai]

A low cost BIG Classic studio monitor

Classic studio monitors are BIG.
18" woofer + (10" -12") midwoofer + 1' CD_horn.
Troels Gavensen now loves BIG. @ $2500 in drivers
Carefull selection can find 3 good quality drivers for ~$400.
Passive and DSP crossover options.

To aid cabinet construction, a CNC file and a table saw cutsheet would be available.

----------idea 2------
Use the power of this audio community for a group purchase of hard to obtain SEOS-24 or Klipsch K402 horn, and maybe BMS 4594Nd, as part of a large modern horn project.

I love both these ideas! I do worry that the cost of the Seos 24 and 4594's may be cost prohibitive for many though. This is why I was trying to split the difference between size/cost/easy to drive with my earlier suggestion for a:
3 way
12" woofer
90db min
8ohm
responce to 40hz

I really love the idea for an even bigger speaker like Troels latest project so if thats the way it goes I am fine with it!

 

[Lojzek]

I suspect that "to each his own" principle will be the most likely what potential loudspeaker builders desire for themselves. There is lots of room for anyone wishing to get involved in it. We need pretty much all loudspeaker types and configurations present nowadays. The budget will have to be inspected more closely though.

 

[Qts]

A high fidelity speaker requires clean output above about 50 Hz and this dictates something like a 12" woofer to handle transients. 2 x 8" can be a more domestically acceptable alternative. High fidelity deep bass requires distributed subs and room control and cannot be delivered by the mains. A case can be made for the mains to do something reasonable with deep bass on their own or in support of subs but not high fidelity on their own.

The size of the woofers dictates a proper efficient midrange driver (or two midwoofers).

The tweeter would normally require a waveguide to match the directivity of the midwoofer and reduce the beam width at higher frequencies.

This could be nice (and simple) in 2-way using compression driver and proaudio midbass.

 

[andy19191]

This could be nice (and simple) in 2-way using compression driver and proaudio midbass.

What would you do about the rough response and resonances to achieve high fidelity? This type of speaker has its strengths but I doubt there is any competing with the billion posts in the Econowave speaker design thread.

 

[Qts]

I would use good quality drivers, not cheapest.

I have no experience of 8 inchers, but my 18Sound 15NCX750´s sound very good.

 

[andy19191]

I would use good quality drivers, not cheapest.

I have no experience of 8 inchers, but my 18Sound 15NCX750´s sound very good.

This is the problem with 2 ways in nutshell: the drivers are required to work over a wider range than is appropriate. Expensive drivers tend to have significant benefits in a way they don't when drivers are kept within appropriate bounds for their size. Even then the expensive drivers still tend to be outperformed by appropriately sized standard range drivers despite the high cost.

If a diysound project required 600 Euro drivers like the one you mention I doubt many people would get involved and build one. Contrast this with the large interest in Econowave-type speakers.

 

[Borus]

Yes what andy19191 said the Econowave has already done this with great outcomes. This is why I suggested a small project. I'm not thinking of those of us that have been doing this for years. Our hobby has a demographic that is dwindling daily. New blood is our only hope. Building a project that is to expensive or has the need for special tools is not going to generate interest. I could see this as a way for us that think we know how to do this to help others get started whether we need another set of speakers or not and probably learn something along the way.
Is it only me or does it bother anyone else that when we as a group think of building a high efficiency horn we start of with a large woofer that is already vary efficient? Its been bugging me for years.

 

[NealJ]

I would assume the Amp Camp Amp is the gateway for many novices here.


From the store page:
"It likes efficient speakers that present an easy load to the amplifier. The right pairing will give you great sound full of audiophile buzz-words, and more than adequate volume for everyday listening or to annoy your neighbours (8W with 91db speakers gives 93db at the couch)."


Would a speaker specifically designed and 'marketed' to complement this amp be a way forward for an intial DIYAudio speaker project?

 

[invaderzim]

I like the idea of a speaker for the ACA.

One of the key questions that needs to be answered is if the speaker project is being designed to get those that haven't done one before into building their own or if it is going to be a higher end one.

The other question is if something with as many variables as a speaker can be designed by popular vote and built by enough people to make it worth while.

What the speaker forum needs is an equivalent of 6L6's build guides in the pass labs forum. Detailed builds with enough information to help the novice work their way through. Along with good information on the speaker. Granted build guides like that take a lot of work.

I'm hoping to build the SR71 speakers in the near future and in my search on it I've seen a couple posts commenting on how there are better speakers out there but no posts referenced any good build documentation on the other options. For those that aren't up to speed in speaker design the documentation and parts list are everything. Plus it is nice having loads of videos of the speaker, especially comparing it to others like: YouTube

 

[raul_77]

Yes, the ACA could be considered the diyaudio amplifier, a speaker designed for the would be the diyaudio speaker.

 

[Aatto]

thanks everybody for the support, I m hoping to come up with more than one version to satisfy more group of people.
looks like it is time to add a poll since we have some different ideas of what to start with, if you guys agree i m going to add a poll for :

3 way classic - limited budget.
3 way classic - High end.
3 way horn loaded - limited budget.
3 way horn loaded - High end.
2 way classic - limited budget.
2 way classic - High end.
2 way horn loaded - limited budget.
2 way horn loaded - High end.

any suggestions ?

 

[Aatto]

if I may, there are a lot of very good designs out there that people can use to build, there s no shortage of choices, so maybe something that is unique in a way, that can stand out as something from this DIY community, not necessary crazy expensive or exotic, but maybe something more complex and high end and then we can modify it to a lower budget version or come up with another design for lower budget one.

 

[Pano]

Would be nice to see an ACA speaker in that list, as mentioned in several posts above.

 

[Aatto]

if it get enough votes can one of the choices designed around ACA ?

 

[Pano]

I suppose so, although maybe the request was the other way around. ACA compatible, then decide on the details.

 

[Pano]

FWIW, then I first joined diyAudio this forum was dominated by MTM, bookshelf and small line arrays. Things have certainly changed in the past 14 years, with far more high efficiency pro drivers, open baffle and other designs outside the Hi-Fi mainstream of small dual woofer narrow baffle style. Nice to see how diverse the builds have become, but it makes the choice a lot messier.

 

[andy19191]

I suppose so, although maybe the request was the other way around. ACA compatible, then decide on the details.

Personally I have no interest in the type of speaker that would be appropriate for the ACA but the reasoning looks good. It gives the project a diyaudio relevant purpose and defines a set of pretty tight constraints to work within. But is anyone interested enough to pick it up, drive the project along and build some?

 

[Aatto]

I suppose so, although maybe the request was the other way around. ACA compatible, then decide on the details.

I understand, but maybe designing an speaker around one certain amp is not the best solution since a lot of us including me don't have the ACA or plan to build one, and even if i build one, i m not gonna build an speaker just for one amp, because we keep building more and more different amps and having spend a lot of money for one single purpose doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

[bwaslo]

There are actually already a number of speaker designs fully fleshed out in various threads here, parts lists, crossover schematics, cabinet designs. Some are even collaborative (or at least had some collaboration in their specification). But speaker tastes tend to be very subjective, particularly for DIY -- everyman type speaker designs are pretty well covered already in commercial kits.

Since there are literally dozens of types of speakers that diy people could want to build, or might love, or might absolutely hate (!), maybe a better approach would be a sticky place here for a number full designs? How a design might be designated that status and be allowed that placement would be something that would need defining though.