It would be nice to compare manufacturer's graph to real world findings.
I'm sure you'll have fun in the coming weeks! We'll be on the look out for that new thread.
I'm sure you'll have fun in the coming weeks! We'll be on the look out for that new thread.
The Tang Band 5" ( W5 1611) and the paper come version (W5 2143) are two of my favorites. I may have to give th is SB a go because the 5's are rather beamy which is about their only fault in my opinion. They are smooth but not boring especially when you turn them up. If you have any experience with them I would be interested to know how the SB compares.
I have the W5-1611, and they do beam horribly. So much so that I gave up trying to use them alone. The sweet spot is like 1/2" !
I'm trying to find out if my distributor has the SB12 in stock right now.
I'm trying to find out if my distributor has the SB12 in stock right now.
I've listened to larger full ranges, but I much prefer the polar response of something 4" or smaller with assistance in the volume displacement department down low.
Latest project I've been listening to in the shop is an active 4 way dipole using the Satori wo24 9.5" under a dayton dma105 mid, which is exceptionally open and has very similar rear response, and a 3 inch grs planar for the tweeter. Only the satori has any baffle at all, and it's minimal while the other two drivers are suspended above it. The mid-bass cross is around 350 or so, can't remember exactly.
There are 12" peerless dipoles on sub duty, but even without them it sounds excellent, shutting their amp off is only noticed when cranking electronic music. My shop is pretty large and it sounds exactly the same no matter where I am in relation to the speakers. I grabbed a dozen SB 12" 16ohm open baffle drivers when they were on sale, and these will be used in the final subs for that system, with 3 drivers in parallel likely...maybe all dipole, or 1 mono and 2 dipole...dunno it's going to fun experimenting.
A 3 or 4" full range combined with a 10"can make a very satisfying and simple small dipole in my experience. The best (most uniform) rear response I've gotten have been from scan 10f and dayton dma so far, which are on opposite ends of the spectrum price wise, but the dma is filling it's gap very well right now and the scans are in a box.
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I'm happy I took these sb12 out to listen to them instead of throwing them in a drawer with the rest. This is the largest driver I've liked full range, the sd is just about double the scan 10f, but the back is not open enough for a dipole of my liking. I'm thinking I'll use them in a small sealed system with 8" woofers, likely 2 in parallel to keep the spl up there with the sb12, which is another great thing about this driver that I can easily hear. I'm going to turn the baffle for the sb12 on my lathe, so I can make niiiice big roundovers. I want to make a toroid and a sphere to measure, so I'll probably build two systems at once.
Latest project I've been listening to in the shop is an active 4 way dipole using the Satori wo24 9.5" under a dayton dma105 mid, which is exceptionally open and has very similar rear response, and a 3 inch grs planar for the tweeter. Only the satori has any baffle at all, and it's minimal while the other two drivers are suspended above it. The mid-bass cross is around 350 or so, can't remember exactly.
There are 12" peerless dipoles on sub duty, but even without them it sounds excellent, shutting their amp off is only noticed when cranking electronic music. My shop is pretty large and it sounds exactly the same no matter where I am in relation to the speakers. I grabbed a dozen SB 12" 16ohm open baffle drivers when they were on sale, and these will be used in the final subs for that system, with 3 drivers in parallel likely...maybe all dipole, or 1 mono and 2 dipole...dunno it's going to fun experimenting.
A 3 or 4" full range combined with a 10"can make a very satisfying and simple small dipole in my experience. The best (most uniform) rear response I've gotten have been from scan 10f and dayton dma so far, which are on opposite ends of the spectrum price wise, but the dma is filling it's gap very well right now and the scans are in a box.
.
I'm happy I took these sb12 out to listen to them instead of throwing them in a drawer with the rest. This is the largest driver I've liked full range, the sd is just about double the scan 10f, but the back is not open enough for a dipole of my liking. I'm thinking I'll use them in a small sealed system with 8" woofers, likely 2 in parallel to keep the spl up there with the sb12, which is another great thing about this driver that I can easily hear. I'm going to turn the baffle for the sb12 on my lathe, so I can make niiiice big roundovers. I want to make a toroid and a sphere to measure, so I'll probably build two systems at once.
The satori MW16P 4ohm is probably the best larger driver I've heard full range. When I first got them I threw them on a small open baffle and boosted the bass a little...for a 6", that one did surprise me. Very open back also, and the rear radiation corrects the polar response a bit and evens out the room.
If you have the chance, do try the SB12 in the TABAQ.
The best I have done so far is with the TB W4-1052SD, needing a small notch.
They impress everyone that stops by for a listen.
I can't wait to try the SB12 in there.
I really like SBA. Their ratio price/performance is amazing.
Lately, my favorite little woofer is the 5x8 racetrack SB15SFCR39-8. It's been great in dual configuration on OB with EQ (they can take a beating without breaking a sweat!), and also in a MLTL design I made for them. They're quite cheap as well!
The best I have done so far is with the TB W4-1052SD, needing a small notch.
They impress everyone that stops by for a listen.
I can't wait to try the SB12 in there.
I really like SBA. Their ratio price/performance is amazing.
Lately, my favorite little woofer is the 5x8 racetrack SB15SFCR39-8. It's been great in dual configuration on OB with EQ (they can take a beating without breaking a sweat!), and also in a MLTL design I made for them. They're quite cheap as well!
Agree on SBA, they have some of the best motors out there and some great values too. I will definitely give those drivers a try, they seem to have baffle step compensation built in.
Hmm... I am a beginner but I have read the Tabac thread a few times and it seems that it prefers drivers with a QTS of about .5. I think that it was said that it gives you a shallower roll-ff. The SB12 has a posted QTS of .27. Should this be a concern?
As a general rule of thumbs... yes.
But as with everything audio, there is always more to it, and in doubt (or I should say "always") use a sim app to see how it turns out.
I have done so on page 1, post #12, and that's why I think it looks mighty good in that design.
Perceval, I dont mean to derail this thread but I have a pair of Tang Band W8-2145 that need a home. Could you do a sim, please? I realize that it would be quite large and I may have to fold it. Thanks.
I just purchased a 10" pro driver, nothing fancy, just a GRS from Dayton but I'm gonna tune it 40 in a TL line. The plan was to run the 1611 and a Faital Pro 3fe25 as the top with it to get more dispersion. They play good together full range, but it would be fun to try something new. Plus the Faital is positively ugly.
The SB12MNRX2-25-4 OHM I have is the newer round version and has a Qts of .32
How much does the air mass load of a tabac type enclosure raise the Qts? A peaky bottom end must be an intentional design element that helps to extend the bass response.
It's the weekend and I don't have much time, but I plugged in the "rue of thumbs" numbers for a driver like that (1000cm2, 145cm line, a hole in the baffle as a vent). It's not stellar, but I didn't have time to play around. Right now, I see a 10dB hump between 40 and 100Hz, which would not be great, unless you are a bass head.
Unfortunately, you'd run out of XMax at 50Hz, so not good.
Give me a couple of days and I'll see what I can do.
And some bad news... my local distributor does not have and does not plan to have the SB12.
I will either have to order through Madisound and ship across the world or try to talk to SBA directly.
I will either have to order through Madisound and ship across the world or try to talk to SBA directly.
My local distributor takes special orders of models of brand he have, if he does not have them in stock. It takes some time to get them, but i can. Does yours not do that?
unfortunately, no. They order either once a year, or at best every 6 months.
Special orders are difficult. They are not very excited when I ask them something out of the ordinary.
I've been having good relationships with them, so I don't want to push it.
Special orders are difficult. They are not very excited when I ask them something out of the ordinary.
I've been having good relationships with them, so I don't want to push it.
Take 2!
It was a rainy afternoon it kind of threw out our plans.
And never mind the first post... I had some wrong figures imported into HornResp.
So... a 1000cm2 cross section, line is 132 cm long, driver placed at 30cm from top, vent at the bottom being a 26cm2 hole in the baffle. Filling as shown. Looks good to me!
Attachments
Shouldn't the system you have described look more like the one shown in the attachment?
