Ignoring the times i've detected DC while testing an amplifier, i've only ever partaken in the loss of 1 midwoofer in over 30 years. That was the 8" Audax in a set of Tangent RS4 driven by a Bryston 4B. John Greenbank (the top dog at Tangent) kept saying turn it up... we siad its gonna blow... and it did, in spectacular fashion, setting the damping foam on fire and thick white smoke poring out of the sqaure port, filling the room with tear drawing acrid smoke. 15 minutes later with a fresh midbass installed we ere back at it 🙂
dave
I remember hearing about that demo, IIRC, the speaker wouldn't have been the only thing thoroughly well smoked by the evening's close.
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Joined 2002
curious about your recent tag line:
If this is an exact quote, does Neslon mean - DIYers making for themselves such a device? or is it a zen koan - we make ourselves into a passive device?
nothing passive about this thread
cheers
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Joined 2002
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Look like something you gave me ? yup still use this as my favorite volume pot, no pre-amp at all, Of course the wire is fixed tho 🙂
Soon ill have my B1 running. Will find out if i like the B1 Or if i will stick with the Passive pot 🙂
Yes the quote os from Nelson Pass in the B1 manual 🙂
J'
Fostex FE138ES-R!
Hi Guys,
Always disturbing you with my questions 😱. I was about to get the FE167E drivers with a bunch of other material from an online shop in order to begin my somehow first DIY, but my main holdback was the FE167E size (6 inch) and enclosure sitting in my TV cabinet. so i was looking at the 5 inch drivers from Fostex and it seems they are all at the high priced edge, but nevertheless if they are worth it, they might be better aesthetically for my needs and possibly as well from point of view sound.
For example, how does the Fostex FE138ES-R compare to the FE167E? Would i gain something by using it? mainly in a bass reflex enclosure? it seems to have a higher frequency response but little less at the lower frequency side then the FE167E. However i see a lot of work seems to have been put in the design.
Hi Guys,
Always disturbing you with my questions 😱. I was about to get the FE167E drivers with a bunch of other material from an online shop in order to begin my somehow first DIY, but my main holdback was the FE167E size (6 inch) and enclosure sitting in my TV cabinet. so i was looking at the 5 inch drivers from Fostex and it seems they are all at the high priced edge, but nevertheless if they are worth it, they might be better aesthetically for my needs and possibly as well from point of view sound.
For example, how does the Fostex FE138ES-R compare to the FE167E? Would i gain something by using it? mainly in a bass reflex enclosure? it seems to have a higher frequency response but little less at the lower frequency side then the FE167E. However i see a lot of work seems to have been put in the design.
The FE138eSR is a limited edition driver, people have had mixed results.
If you want to look smaller the Fostex FE127e... but i will continue to point out, despite the FE127eN being my favorite driver, that for your system CSS EL70, or Mark Audio CHR-70 are probably a better match.
dave
If you want to look smaller the Fostex FE127e... but i will continue to point out, despite the FE127eN being my favorite driver, that for your system CSS EL70, or Mark Audio CHR-70 are probably a better match.
dave
Hi goldorak,
Dave's advice about the CHR-70 is right on. It's a meaty little monster and seems to go nicely with any amp (that I tried). Be careful, though (I accidentally blew mine but will replace them.) They are quite sturdy but I put them in an inappropriately tuned BR and cranked them too loud because I was having waaay too much fun with them.
Dave's advice about the CHR-70 is right on. It's a meaty little monster and seems to go nicely with any amp (that I tried). Be careful, though (I accidentally blew mine but will replace them.) They are quite sturdy but I put them in an inappropriately tuned BR and cranked them too loud because I was having waaay too much fun with them.
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Joined 2002
This is why i suggested a different driver that could handle more abuse 🙂 The amplifier he has has a pretty handfull of power if used.
j'
as did Dave on reply #12 Dec 8th
yes, the amplifier has lots of power, but with a full 5.1 (or more) surround array and sub(s), the matter of how much abuse any individual driver can endure, particularly in a smaller domestic situation, is perhaps not the prime factor in the calculus
I thought the fostex drivers had better sound quality and better maximum SPL!!
If not then the Mark Audio would be fine. The suggestion of Dave regarding double chr70 for all channels or at least for the front seems to fit my expectations (so it is a possible solution).
If i surpass the size (i.e. if i use 6 inch drivers for the front), would 1 x alpair 10 in the front be better then double chr70? wouldn't an alpair 10 produce more bass then 2 chr70?
If not then the Mark Audio would be fine. The suggestion of Dave regarding double chr70 for all channels or at least for the front seems to fit my expectations (so it is a possible solution).
If i surpass the size (i.e. if i use 6 inch drivers for the front), would 1 x alpair 10 in the front be better then double chr70? wouldn't an alpair 10 produce more bass then 2 chr70?
"better" is certainly subjective - there definitely are flavor differences between the 2 families - if you didn't compare them side by side and get distracted by the relative sensitivities, who knows which you'd prefer
and don't forget that at the end of the day, it's the sound you like, not what some internet bloviators (including myself) have to say about it, that matters most
the last part can depend very much on enclosure volume / tuning - as with power, "more" is not necessarily "better.
For example, a near corner loaded pair (per side) of CSS EL70 in the Castle Microtower produce greater mass of bottom end, overall SPLs, and sense of envelopment when driven by a cheap 30watt Sony receiver than a single EL70 in the "Fonken" style cabinet when driven by a 5watt EL34 SET amp - but in terms of articulation, rhythm, texture, and imaging, the latter is far more to my personal taste.
I agree chrisb. However since i dont have means to listen and compare them, i am relying on your experiences (taking into account that it envolves personal taste as well) 🙂
I was looking at the FE167E mainly as well for better price tag then the Alpair 10 for example, nevertheless the recommendations of the people who responded to this post seem to prefer the Mark Audio (for the purpose of the setup and application that i have) which is fine and acceptable. My receiver would have the option to save these combinations into memory, i can lower the LR power levels for 5.1 mode)
I agree with you that a single driver produces better image. But since we opened the subject of two drivers in one enclosure (putting out comb filtering effects aside or taking them as not a problem), the center channel is the one causing me to think. If it was for me, i prefer larger drivers (if the space was not a problem).
Let me state few combinations that i have in mind, and if you can please rank them in order of preference and then it will come to me i beleive to experiment in one of the combinations that most attract me, but at least i would have got your input into this and weighed my chances 😉
The combinations are (in arbitrary order):
1 - Fostex 167E for all the front
2 - Fostex 127E pairs for all the front
3 - Alpair 10 FR for all the Front (one of the preferred choices i am thinking of taking your input into consideration)
4 - CHR 70 pairs for all the front
5 - Alpair 7 pairs for all the front
6 - Alpair 10 FR for Left Right and a pair of Alpair 7 (or CHR70) for the center (both directed forward possibly!) A combination i am thinking of as well.
7 - Alpair 12 for the Left and Right and a pair of Alapir 7 for the center (any comment or addition on this) (something i am looking at since i would love to hear two of the alpair 12s 🙂
8 - Fostex 207E for the left and right and 2 Fostex 127E for the center. (might not be a good combination) but as well i am very intrigged to hear the 8 inch drivers.
These are the combinations i have in mind with the red ones possibly more applicable (taking the info assimilated through this post 😱)
I have included the 8 inch drivers (even though my wife might think of killing me - joking) into the picture for the fact that in 5.1 mode, i am possibly not going to use their full power (i.e i can power them enough to match the center), however i might like to use them for music listening in stereo and at that time, i might use more power in them. My receiver would be able to have a memory for each of the combinations, i can lower the power input to the LR channels in 5.1 mode to match the smaller center!)
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I would think that the alpair 10 would sound better than the 167e.
But I havn't heard either driver.
Norman
But I havn't heard either driver.
Norman
that's where the danger lies, but sooner or later one does need to take a leap of faith.
For my own part, I wouldn't say "prefer" for your application, which suggests that I've actually heard the various permutations described, but rather recommend - as much in deference to the perhaps over emphasized concern regarding power handling as to the differing sonic qualities between these makes that I have experienced.
a few thoughts about this
- the number of drivers in an enclosure design doesn't necessarily ensure image or soundstage qualities, while their dispersion characteristics, the enclosure's configuration, and room placement may
- comb filtering may be a highly over estimated "problem" - read the Floyd Toole text
- imaging "requirements" are quite different for "conventional 2 channel audio" and multi-channel movie soundtracks (including music, dialog, effects, etc.)
- it's been my personal experience that smaller diameter drivers can deliver superior imaging / soundstage dimensionality than larger ones (FWIW, the "sweet spot" size seems to be 4-4.5" )
- at the risk of repetition, space to accommodate a full surround array might very well be a problem in your case; dummy up some enclosures with cardboard boxes to get an idea of size and placement issues
Of course, any of the current crop of competent surround processors / receivers will provide all the flexibility required to adjust power levels and delays for optimal SPL levels at a specific listening window, and spectral content to suit the loudspeakers capabilities. To maintain timbral balance across the critical front soundstage, and in the attempted surround envelope, I'd try to use the exact same model of driver for the front 3, and smaller drivers from the same maker for the surrounds- the latter in a dual/splayed bipole configuration if space permits.
As noted previously, only someone who has heard all your nominated drivers, even if in a 2 channel audio only system, can do anything more than conjecture on the subject. Which is exactly what I've done.
I have heard both, each in at least a couple of enclosure designs. FWIW, in the context of the systems involved, between these 2 I'd take the Fostex - but of course subjective opinions will differ
Well talking about placement and size, the wife has liked the Davis Matisse and central MV speakers that i will show in the attached picture (which made me suggest that i can build comparable and better speakers😀). So basically anything i do should be pretty much similar. Dimensions (cm) : 100x15x20 for the LR Towers and the central speaker Dimensions (cm) : 15x22x38. A 10 to 20% increase over this size wont be a problem i think.
But what makes the WAF more difficult is that the seller offered these for a price pretty comparable to what the Alpair 10 might cost me with boxes (main price, shipment, carpentry, accessories, etc.) 🙂 the price for those Davis speakers was 920 USD.
Yes, the 8 inchers seem too much. 6 inch and below 😉
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those davis towers look like something chris made, then sold to me a few years ago, MAN i miss those towers 🙁
Brian's Gallery :: Tower's
Brian's Gallery :: Tower's
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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yes jleaman, they seem to have similarities. And by the way, they do have spikes in the base but it doesnt appear when you look at them. Very nice speakers, if i will make an enclosure for the alpair 10 or CHR70s or similar, putting curvitures give the speaker a smaller look in a small living room or saloon. i was surprised with the price to be honest, i mean each one seems to house a 1 inch dome tweeter, 1 kevlar mid range, and 2 5.25 bass units (papier graphité in french).
but what kind of "format" should the enclosure of this look and size have in order to house an alpair 10 or FE167e. is it an MLTL or what? (still not knowledgeable of these configurations)?
but what kind of "format" should the enclosure of this look and size have in order to house an alpair 10 or FE167e. is it an MLTL or what? (still not knowledgeable of these configurations)?
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Joined 2002
Planet10/ Chrisb can help with that, are you after a tower style ? if so let them know im sure they would be able to create something using those drivers in some kinda combo / box idea.
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