Yes jleaman, for the LR channels , two towers similar or same idea as those we have seen from Davis would be nice with dimensions of around length (100 to 120), width (up to 22), depth (up to 20 or 25) something like that.
As for the center channel (put horizontally),it can be depth (up to 22 cm max) length of possibly (30 to 40 cm maximum), and the width cant be more then 20cm. this will be put directly in the TV cabinet so the back will be put to the back wooden wall of the TV cabinet.
by the way, jleaman how would u consider your experience with the Davis driver you have once listened to, was it a 5.25 inch or 6? how was the sound compared to full range speakers)?
As for the center channel (put horizontally),it can be depth (up to 22 cm max) length of possibly (30 to 40 cm maximum), and the width cant be more then 20cm. this will be put directly in the TV cabinet so the back will be put to the back wooden wall of the TV cabinet.
by the way, jleaman how would u consider your experience with the Davis driver you have once listened to, was it a 5.25 inch or 6? how was the sound compared to full range speakers)?
CCM
curves cost money (either in terms of time and materials, or materials and time
)
After several attempts at getting something to sound as wonderful in these boxes as several of more conventional construction, and their getting severely damaged lugging them around for several years after Jason ran out of space, they've been "retired".
Goldorak - whether you decide on multiple fullrange or 2/3 way systems, be wary of horizontal configuration for center channel speaker; i.e. specifically MTM.
Just a suggestion to all, read the Floyd Toole book before designing a multichannel HT system and/or room treatment regimen. Worth every penny - but based on over 40yrs experience in the fields of acoustics, psycho-acoustics, and loudspeaker research/ design, and at close to 500 pages, not a Cole's Notes summary of internet bloviations.
curves cost money (either in terms of time and materials, or materials and time
)After several attempts at getting something to sound as wonderful in these boxes as several of more conventional construction, and their getting severely damaged lugging them around for several years after Jason ran out of space, they've been "retired".
Goldorak - whether you decide on multiple fullrange or 2/3 way systems, be wary of horizontal configuration for center channel speaker; i.e. specifically MTM.
Just a suggestion to all, read the Floyd Toole book before designing a multichannel HT system and/or room treatment regimen. Worth every penny - but based on over 40yrs experience in the fields of acoustics, psycho-acoustics, and loudspeaker research/ design, and at close to 500 pages, not a Cole's Notes summary of internet bloviations.
it is long book 😀 yes i recall seeing a picture possibly recommending having a 3 way for the center as well, i.e. 2 woofers, 1 mid range and 1 tweeter. I "Assume" these Davis people might have done something to make the MTM better through usage of their kevlar drivers. maybe. Dunno.
But yes, the book is good but not for the impatient to build his first DIY 😉. Moreover, if I was doing the carpentry I wouldn’t do the project, I don’t have the experience, but I am using the help of a friend carpenter.
But yes, the book is good but not for the impatient to build his first DIY 😉. Moreover, if I was doing the carpentry I wouldn’t do the project, I don’t have the experience, but I am using the help of a friend carpenter.
All of the side-ways MTMs are bad. Marketing exercise only. If you have 2 drivers they need to be vertical.
dave
But Dave, if it was only one woofer and tweeter, they should be as well be put vertical? why do most manufacturers even the respected ones put them horizontal? could it be for necessity due to the fact that the center is under the TV, so it is for convenience and aesthetics?😕
bingo!
dispersion control is very important - more so as the number of sources increases
actually building the boxes is the easiest part - designing a system that works for your particular room is the challenge
I hope for the best. I mean the sound now seems ok, of course the more i learn things i get more picky, but that is the beauty of it. And the human being adapts. The receiver is good, the computer sound card upscaling and refining the media content seems to be working fine until now. I feel encouraged but then when i build the product, we will see if it is going to be good, i hope. It might end up to be ok for a first DIY. Up till now i am leaning to 3 alpair 10 for LCR, two towers, and one enclosure put horizontally for center.
To be honest the room seems to go along with the sound, i had older low quality speakers (Bose like, but not bose) and they were fine. but then as i said,the more i learn the more i can judge, i mean it is not all about SPL, it is about sustaining long hours of listening, reflections at higher SPLs, etc.
To be honest the room seems to go along with the sound, i had older low quality speakers (Bose like, but not bose) and they were fine. but then as i said,the more i learn the more i can judge, i mean it is not all about SPL, it is about sustaining long hours of listening, reflections at higher SPLs, etc.
Getting back to the MTM and horizontal speakers subject. I was on the pioneer website and was looking at their "high end" towers and centers just for information not to buy anything, they are expensive. The center has an MSRP of 3800 USD i think, it is MTM, it is not good!!!? I will attach the photo, it is nice and the beautiful is the tower 😀
I mean getting inspired by designs around is not a bad idea.
Just a second, it might not be an MTM, but it looks like, on the pioneer site they say 3 way system! the middle driver is a concentric driver, but still it is horizontal.
I mean getting inspired by designs around is not a bad idea.
Just a second, it might not be an MTM, but it looks like, on the pioneer site they say 3 way system! the middle driver is a concentric driver, but still it is horizontal.
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Member
Joined 2002
thats what you get for over prices retail stuff 🙂
if i were to buy a pair of retail speaker for HT and some decent linstening speakers, it would be Paradigm Studio's 🙂
Looking at the Fostex drivers and Mark Audio ones, i feel the Fostex are a better value for money, is that correct?
I was calculating how much it will cost me to have LCR with alpair 10 and the same with FE167E, and the difference is almost double for alpair 10. And through our dicussions here, the quality is almost the same (by meaning that some people prefer one driver over the other without saying that the other is less in quality).
I am saying this because i am trying to justify the almost double price if i choose Alpair 10 (for the sake of being more solid state friendly), so the fostex wont give good results with SS amplifiers?
moreover looking at the cone areas, it seems that FE167E has wider area then the alpair 10, the size of the alpair is taken by the frame size (i,e, the frame is big) while the fostex is not, the Vas of the fostex is higher as well, does that mean it produces better bass then the alpair 10.
Both can accept almost the same peak power values, or did i understand the power readings wrongfully, i mean the peak power in alpair 10 is 70 while the fostex is 65!!
and the fostex is much more efficient then the alpair 10, thus possibly will produce higher SPLs!!!
i am sharing this with you guys because these are the questions coming into my head.😕🙂
I went today to a local store to try to get a visaton FR10 in order to build a tower with it so that i can at least immagine the possible better sound from the CHR70 for example but unfortunately it was out of stock, the only remaining driver is the visaton F8SC8, which is very poor to try with. I attached the pics of the drivers here.
I was calculating how much it will cost me to have LCR with alpair 10 and the same with FE167E, and the difference is almost double for alpair 10. And through our dicussions here, the quality is almost the same (by meaning that some people prefer one driver over the other without saying that the other is less in quality).
I am saying this because i am trying to justify the almost double price if i choose Alpair 10 (for the sake of being more solid state friendly), so the fostex wont give good results with SS amplifiers?
moreover looking at the cone areas, it seems that FE167E has wider area then the alpair 10, the size of the alpair is taken by the frame size (i,e, the frame is big) while the fostex is not, the Vas of the fostex is higher as well, does that mean it produces better bass then the alpair 10.
Both can accept almost the same peak power values, or did i understand the power readings wrongfully, i mean the peak power in alpair 10 is 70 while the fostex is 65!!
and the fostex is much more efficient then the alpair 10, thus possibly will produce higher SPLs!!!
i am sharing this with you guys because these are the questions coming into my head.😕🙂
I went today to a local store to try to get a visaton FR10 in order to build a tower with it so that i can at least immagine the possible better sound from the CHR70 for example but unfortunately it was out of stock, the only remaining driver is the visaton F8SC8, which is very poor to try with. I attached the pics of the drivers here.
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Understand that in the absence of opportunity to hear any of the numerous models of drivers from either maker that have formed the prime candidates so far, you're relying on subjective evaluations of folks whose tastes and biases you've not been able to reconcile to your own.
Does that make sense?
Setting aside the price and sensitivity differences between the Fostex and Mark Audio drivers discussed so far (which are "objective" factors upon which undue significance may be placed), there are subjective differences in the presentation of a musical performance that may not be related to specifications or quantifiable measurements. Trust me, that's another of those questions upon which terrabytes of bandwidth have, and will continue to be spent debating, and I don't expect a consensus in my lifetime 😉
At the end of the day, there will be differences of "personal taste", and the willingness to submit to compromise, ( based on years or decades of experience ) that are also beyond the scope of conventional metrics. In other words, if I were to design a multichannel home theatre system for my own use, there are lots of reasons for which it could be quite different from what I might suggest for someone else.
Good luck in your quest
Does that make sense?
Setting aside the price and sensitivity differences between the Fostex and Mark Audio drivers discussed so far (which are "objective" factors upon which undue significance may be placed), there are subjective differences in the presentation of a musical performance that may not be related to specifications or quantifiable measurements. Trust me, that's another of those questions upon which terrabytes of bandwidth have, and will continue to be spent debating, and I don't expect a consensus in my lifetime 😉
At the end of the day, there will be differences of "personal taste", and the willingness to submit to compromise, ( based on years or decades of experience ) that are also beyond the scope of conventional metrics. In other words, if I were to design a multichannel home theatre system for my own use, there are lots of reasons for which it could be quite different from what I might suggest for someone else.
Good luck in your quest
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Found Infinity IRS Beta speakers!??
Hi guys.
I got a little detained from my DIY project because of work and bought as well a new SUV for the Wife & family.
Meanwhile, i found a used speakers shop near my area on the internet, he was posting the Infinity IRS Beta speakers. At first i didn't know the model but called him to get information, he said that the speakers are missing half their woofers it seems, i.e. each box has two woofers instead of 4. To be honest the info on the net seems in favor of these speakers, but i doubt they are in good condition and moreover, i feel they are missing the "external box" crossover!! DO they need BI-Amping? many questions came to my mind, and they need space.
Howeover, being a speaker and techno enthusiast, i decided to go see them (didnt go yet, possibly in weekend if they are still there). ANy idea? how to test them and check them up? are they worth to be bought with this "used" condition? do they really need biamping? i heard the woofers need more then my amp can give.
So, any ideas or thoughts regarding this? is there a possibility of renovation (worth it)? can they operate on one amplifier?
Hi guys.
I got a little detained from my DIY project because of work and bought as well a new SUV for the Wife & family.
Meanwhile, i found a used speakers shop near my area on the internet, he was posting the Infinity IRS Beta speakers. At first i didn't know the model but called him to get information, he said that the speakers are missing half their woofers it seems, i.e. each box has two woofers instead of 4. To be honest the info on the net seems in favor of these speakers, but i doubt they are in good condition and moreover, i feel they are missing the "external box" crossover!! DO they need BI-Amping? many questions came to my mind, and they need space.
Howeover, being a speaker and techno enthusiast, i decided to go see them (didnt go yet, possibly in weekend if they are still there). ANy idea? how to test them and check them up? are they worth to be bought with this "used" condition? do they really need biamping? i heard the woofers need more then my amp can give.
So, any ideas or thoughts regarding this? is there a possibility of renovation (worth it)? can they operate on one amplifier?
Member
Joined 2002
Unless you plan to buy the drivers that actually go in those boxes, they are a waste of time and money. Those boxes would be designed for the drivers that are missing.
jleaman, i wouldnt have even thought about them but the price seemed "good". it is between 350 and 400 USD for the 4 towers, but i want to see if he has the control unit as well. I have posted the pics of the salesperson ( i beleive these are for the bass units), and the original pics of the infinity IRS beta.
On one site i have seen that the weight is 1500 lbs for the 4 units,is that correct?
On one site i have seen that the weight is 1500 lbs for the 4 units,is that correct?
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Member
Joined 2002
DUde, you are allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll OVER the place with this.
Pic a set of drivers, get some help on here for box designs, then design the crossover.
Be done with it,
If you buy those boxes, it will be a complete waste of money if you don't put the original drivers in them.
By the looks of them, they are bi-amp able speakers. and probably require a HUGE room and a wide one to boot.!
I remember the IRS V as the ultimate reference speaker. I only saw pictures and read the mags. They were beautiful speakers made with rosewood (I suppose rosewood was still legal then). iirc they had 12 X 12 inch woofers, servo controlled in 2 enclosures per channel and then other enclosures for the mids and tweets which were set up as line sources. Weighing in at 1500lbs and priced in the range of US$50,000.00.
I believe they came with built in amps.
Each crossover held just short of a kazillion components.
I am sure an internet search would turn up a lot of info.
Without a complete system I am afraid you really don't have very much although you could probably use the Rosewood for another project😀
I believe they came with built in amps.
Each crossover held just short of a kazillion components.
I am sure an internet search would turn up a lot of info.
Without a complete system I am afraid you really don't have very much although you could probably use the Rosewood for another project😀
I couldnt agree more with you jleaman. I should be done with this.
The only thing that is making me search locally is the shipping hastle and charges. But as u said i should pick drivers and let it be.
But i couldn’t help myself being impressed by the IRS BEta speakers and the price at the beginning seemed attractive, i mean the midbass and treble tower by itself can reach possibly 70 Hz without the woofers. the woofers are said to reach 23 Hz, they are beautiful, you cant blame me for liking them. Even if i bought them, they wouldn’t have been put in my house, i would have put them in my mother in law mountain house, 5m meter ceiling and around 6m by 6m LxW. still small for these but not in my house, and as you said they are missing the drivers, it is a lost case in a way.
Well i should put that order and get this done as you said. I am "almost" set on 3 x alpair 12 for the front (as chrisb once suggested) and dual chr70 for the surrounds. Shipping them alone will cost 180 USD.
But hey, i will go visit the shop for the curiosity and see what he has, it seems he has some vintage audio equipment i would like to see.
And yes Andrewbee, the IRS V were 50,000 however through the reviews, they said that although the BETAs were USD 12000 almost, they were almost on par "sound" wise with the V.
The only thing that is making me search locally is the shipping hastle and charges. But as u said i should pick drivers and let it be.
But i couldn’t help myself being impressed by the IRS BEta speakers and the price at the beginning seemed attractive, i mean the midbass and treble tower by itself can reach possibly 70 Hz without the woofers. the woofers are said to reach 23 Hz, they are beautiful, you cant blame me for liking them. Even if i bought them, they wouldn’t have been put in my house, i would have put them in my mother in law mountain house, 5m meter ceiling and around 6m by 6m LxW. still small for these but not in my house, and as you said they are missing the drivers, it is a lost case in a way.
Well i should put that order and get this done as you said. I am "almost" set on 3 x alpair 12 for the front (as chrisb once suggested) and dual chr70 for the surrounds. Shipping them alone will cost 180 USD.
But hey, i will go visit the shop for the curiosity and see what he has, it seems he has some vintage audio equipment i would like to see.
And yes Andrewbee, the IRS V were 50,000 however through the reviews, they said that although the BETAs were USD 12000 almost, they were almost on par "sound" wise with the V.
Member
Joined 2002
Good good, now, start a budget first.
Then start picking drivers
then pay for them 🙂
Don't try to avoid shipping, your going to have to pay shipping anyways, parts will have to come from somewhere.
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