New Reference Speakers with Full/Wide-Range Driver

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#41
Fertin FLB20EX ?

Lynn,

this driver may be out of your budget but please look for what i posted earlier concerning the Fertin FLB20EX.

It is a fieldcoil fullranger covering easily 90Hz to 20kHz. Let's make that 50Hz. I won't repeat my ravings concerning that speaker until i have the gadget running, but its simply magic.
So is the price, unfortunantely. US$1500 a pair.
 
#43
same ears

I to notice the same problems with xover design and am glad I'm not alone.I'm trying to design a speaker using a couple of good full ranges in a bipolar array.The 13m/4535 from scan speak looks very promising .I'd also like to run the human 1"aluminum concave dome on the front of the cabinet from 14,500 on.Its my opinion that nothing produces the lower bass region more naturally that a paper kelar cone woofer.So I'm looking at a couple of hivi f8's for the bass region.
I know little about speaker design but am learning.From what I now know I Think the om series from mirage has best design.I'd like to model this project with there design in mind.Please post on opinions and how your making out.
 
#44
Lynn,
What I have been looking at for a reference speaker using a TL made for tube amps is the Eminence Beta-12LTA. The SPL is 99db with a range of 40 Hz to 10,000 Hz and the drop off at the high end looks to be around 12db or so. You just have to pick out your tweeter that has a SPL of 97-99 and do a 6db high pass at 9K or so. You end up with 2 drivers and a good capacitor. Your transmission line tuned to a 40 Hz quarter wave is 2.14 meters. Eminence drivers are very reasonably priced and you just use the tweeter type you like best. Paper with alnico would be my choice.
Thatch
 
#45
What I have been looking at for a reference speaker using a TL made for tube amps is the Eminence Beta-12LTA. The SPL is 99db with a range of 40 Hz to 10,000 Hz and the drop off at the high end looks to be around 12db or so. You just have to pick out your tweeter that has a SPL of 97-99 and do a 6db high pass at 9K or so.

However, please note that this is only IF you find linear off axis behaviour and spectral decay characteristics to be of little relevance to your design preferences. The first issue, at least, was one of surf's primary goals.

-Chris
 
#47
I am back!?!?!

Good day gentlemen;

I am sure that you gave up on this project ever being moved along. Well, after being ill and consquently, unable to work for 4 months, I had to dedicate all my time to getting my finances back to normal. So things have started to resume to some semblence of normalcy, so I am back on track to get thhis project moving forward.

I have collected about a dozen drivers, from 4" to 12", all vintage and second-hand. I want to try this on a limited budget, read real cheap, before I start committing serious sums of money. Also I still do not have any extra funds to sink into this project.

So I am planning to use a 6" full-range with a 12" for lows and I will determine the tweeter along the way.

I am going to run T&S parameters & response charts for all my drivers, and work from there.

I am going to let the 6" run full, the 12" will also run full and I will attempt build in a mechanical low-pass into the cabinet design. I will bleed the tweeter in around 7 - 8kHz. All driver will be impedance compensated out 40kHz or beyond.

So a quick question, should I compensate for the drivers for just the rise in vioce coil inductance due to frequency rise or should I also compensate for the Fb/Fs at the bottom end of the scale. Remember we want to keep this as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Again we are trying the have the following XC points, 60-70Hz & 7-8kHz, leaving the critical range of the human voice free of crossovers. I know that I will have to due with some of the beaminess that comes from a larger diameter driver, but life seems full of compromises.

Enough for now.

Lynn
 
#49
Well, I hate to give you more driver suggestions now that you have made your mind up. But I have thought about this from time to time, and I thought I would just add the idea of a 4" X 6" driver. You were thinking of a 4" but decided that it was too small for the low end. Well, a 4" X 6" has twice the cone area of a 4", with the same horizontal dispersion.

Frankly, I don't know of any 4" X 6" specifically to recommend. I believe that MB Quart makes some for it's automotive division. since MB Quart also makes highly rated home speakers, maybe that is a good place to look. Anyway, good luck! 🙂
 
#50
I Think So....

So a quick question, should I compensate for the drivers for just the rise in vioce coil inductance due to frequency rise or should I also compensate for the Fb/Fs at the bottom end of the scale. Remember we want to keep this as simple as possible, but no simpler

IME, the first thing to do is RC networks to null (compensate) the inductive impedence rise and that this gives very great benefit in smoothing and extending driver response both both up and down, and giving a load that a high NFB amp is much happier with (cleaner throughout if using very low inductance cable).
When you have to this stage you can then experiment with resonance compensation (RLC network).
The resonance of the bass driver is often usefull to provide bouncy and stronger low bass, and therefore optional to compensate this impedence hump.
Resonance compensating mid and tweeter will allow higher power operation and lessen the chance of thermal/physical/flex leads damage when overdriven.

Eric.
 
#51
kelticwizard said:
Well, a 4" X 6" has twice the cone area of a 4", with the same horizontal dispersion.
Click to expand...

I wonder why oval mids don't get the attention they should. I run across quite a few 4x6, and 5 x7" alnico full-ranges. And this 4x8 Sony was a recent find:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


As to non-vintage ovals, you almost have to go looking at automotive drivers (some of those can be quite the sleepers -- there is a 4 ohm Delco 6x9 with whizzer that is outstanding)

dave
 
#52
What about the Monacor Number One MSH-115 or MSH 116/4.
These chassis are from very good quality you can hear at
various places. Seems no problem to get a ribbon to it.
Everybody can buy it with ease and 35$ is still cheap
enough.

Wombat
 
#53
what about using a ESL fullrange XO to a TL woofer. it has been done a few times.

actually i am also trying to look at drivers that would cover 20-100hz, 90-4k and 3-20k. for a 3 way. the added spec I have is that the mid should be open backed. this makes it very diffcult to go down to 90Hz so i mgiht revise my specs to a 4 way.

20-100, 90-400, 400-4000, 4000-20k

20-100 12" CSX or 10" SS in TL
90-400 7" SS8530, 854x, SEAS W18E, or 150mm Jordan
400-4000 SS 13m, Vifa 10/11m, Focal 5W or 6W, Audax HDA
4000+ leaf/ribbon, SS9700/9800, Vifa ring, Audax gold egg shaped dome

1st order. box aesthetics much like the Vandersteen 3.

any opinions? sorry about the vague driver specs but i use a very foggy memory.
 
#57
well...last I remember hearing from Mr. Surf Sun he wanted wide dispersion and high efficiency in addition to wide range just bracketing the human voice. In fact he finally suceeded in describing the perfect driver. IT is true the world of speajkers is fraught with compromise.


I don't think the Jordan is very efficient and being 8" isn't going to have great dispersion, but the tweeter will help I guess. HOw do the Seas Excel drivers work in this capacity? I know they have that resonance, but that is pretty well documented by now. Not cheap either of course...
but they are reputed to have very low distortion, source says lower than the Jordans but hard to work with

http://www.snippets.org/ldsg/sect-2.php3#MIDBASS

What is that other brand run by Jordan's ex-wife?

Oval speakers...... I never thought about their dispersion advantages- thats a pretty interesting observation
Car speakers really need to be carefully studied by someone!!

The MB Quart subwoofers being sold as a special by Parts Express look suspiciously like they are made by Selenium in Brazil.
Similar baskets, similar cone material similar appearance.



The



http://www.snippets.org/ldsg/vendors/jordan.php3
 
#58
Variac said:
I don't think the Jordan is very efficient and being 8" isn't going to have great dispersion, but the tweeter will help I guess.
Click to expand...

Because of Ted's controlled cone decoupling dispersion isn't too bad, but it is only of average efficency.


What is that other brand run by Jordan's ex-wife?
Click to expand...

Doreen's company is called Bandor.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


dave
 
#59
Wow! I just looked at the Bandor 150 and that is some driver.

This might infuriate some, but a D'apollito might give more area and improve the bass distortion and give greater efficiency ? Does the very high tweeter crossover make this configuration less workable?

Maybe Daves Bipole fixation 😀 would accomplish the same....😀
I'll bet he is saving up for this very experiment!!

Latest Flash: it come in 4,8and 16 ohm versions making pairing them easier, That way two 16 ohms can be combined for 8 ohm.
Then the combined Spl would only rise 3 db I think, but still gets them into a much more efficient range, and an 8 ohm impedance even fussy amps would like
 
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