GM said:
I haven't compared the 1197s, but there is sure a difference between the similarily treated FE127 & the EnABLed version --enough that i can't justify continuing the old one -- althou i am considering doing an apply the spots yourself version for the guys in Europe who'd spend the same for local drivers as i could get them matched drivers with the pre-coat.
I mentioned 1197s because i have lots of them. I have a pair of 1354s (that Woody sent me) & some FR125 but they are the new SR RoHS version so i don't think that would be valid.
dave
planet10 said:
A strong enough recommendation for me, but with my 'shakes' and increasing arthritis, no hope of doing it except as a free-form bunch of squiggles. 🙁 Historically, I made a pattern I could hold in front of the driver, but that won't work here.
SR RoHS? I didn't find any info on the CSS site.
GM
GM said:
I don't spend much time on Bob's site... the last batch had to switch to RoHS for Europe plus with all the manufacturers switching over the future was clear. The 4-legged basket FR125 are the RS (i like the new basket -- it is more open than the 6-legger.
dave
Kurt,
It was a pleasure to meet you at Burning Amp as well. I was really looking forward to hearing your setup, but realized I missed it when I came back from eating my 3:30 pm brunch. 🙁
I would love to hear the Bamboo drivers! Perhaps you have some thoughts on the discussion about which small drivers pair well with the eminence woofers in OBs. I can guess based on what you brought to Burning Amp, but have you tried the others (bamboo, jordan, fostex...) in that setup? I've got some FR125s but the sensitivity is a little low for the MJK design.
I am thinking of putting my new 8" Lyecos (that Nelson and Colin kindly sent me home with) into OBs with the alpha 15a woofers. I would have to pad them down a bit (or use more woofers), but that would not really resemble Martin's current design at all. I just need to order my own set of the woofers (and not bug my friend about trying stuff out on his), then let the games begin...
best regards,
PSz.
It was a pleasure to meet you at Burning Amp as well. I was really looking forward to hearing your setup, but realized I missed it when I came back from eating my 3:30 pm brunch. 🙁
I would love to hear the Bamboo drivers! Perhaps you have some thoughts on the discussion about which small drivers pair well with the eminence woofers in OBs. I can guess based on what you brought to Burning Amp, but have you tried the others (bamboo, jordan, fostex...) in that setup? I've got some FR125s but the sensitivity is a little low for the MJK design.
I am thinking of putting my new 8" Lyecos (that Nelson and Colin kindly sent me home with) into OBs with the alpha 15a woofers. I would have to pad them down a bit (or use more woofers), but that would not really resemble Martin's current design at all. I just need to order my own set of the woofers (and not bug my friend about trying stuff out on his), then let the games begin...
best regards,
PSz.
planet10 said:
Greets!
OK, found RoHS in a Google search, I wasn't aware of this latest Euro manufacturing code.
For sure more open back the better! I don't understand why the industry hasn't standardized on three legged cast for all but the cheapest PA driver markets where it doesn't matter.
GM
Bamboo 4" v. FX120
PSz,
The OB speakers I brought to the Burning Amp were built for the very purpose of trying the Eminence Alpha 15A woofers. After reading Martin's whitepaper I just had to give them a try. The Alpha 15A's provide a good fundation of bass that can be coupled with many fullrange drivers, and the sound of the system will be determined mainly by the fullrange drivers.
I've tried both the FX120 and the TB 4" bamboo drivers on the acrylic baffles. Actually, I switched between them back and forth just the day before the Burning Amp event. They both worked. The FX120 sounded fuller, while the TB 4" seemed to have clearer highs. In the end, the selection between the two was based on my subjective assessment of which one sounded closer in tonality to what I heard in the practice sessions and performances of the Stanford University Chorus.
In this regard, I have to say that real human voices and instruments never sounded "clear" or "dynamic" to me ears in the Hi-Fi sense. For example, did you ever think: "Wow, the clarity and dynamics of his voice is incredible!", when a person talked to you or sang two feet away from you? Also, have you ever been impressed by the clarity, details, and/or dynamic impact of a flute, harp, or cello? It appears to me that the super-clarity or dynamics most audiophiles are obsessed with is some kind of artificial flavor that, albeit pleasant or exciting to listen to, is not found in reality. I had been thinking about this for a while, but reached this conclusion only recently, after singing in the Stanford University Chorus for nearly a year.
Have fun with the Lyeco drivers. I think they deserve to be on larger baffles with two Alpha 15A's on each baffle. Martin's design using 4" fullrange drivers is good for a small room, but an 8" driver might be more satisfying if you like to play the music loud.
You can send PM to ykurtchang at yahoo dot com if you'd like to talk off-line.
Best regards,
Kurt
PSz,
The OB speakers I brought to the Burning Amp were built for the very purpose of trying the Eminence Alpha 15A woofers. After reading Martin's whitepaper I just had to give them a try. The Alpha 15A's provide a good fundation of bass that can be coupled with many fullrange drivers, and the sound of the system will be determined mainly by the fullrange drivers.
I've tried both the FX120 and the TB 4" bamboo drivers on the acrylic baffles. Actually, I switched between them back and forth just the day before the Burning Amp event. They both worked. The FX120 sounded fuller, while the TB 4" seemed to have clearer highs. In the end, the selection between the two was based on my subjective assessment of which one sounded closer in tonality to what I heard in the practice sessions and performances of the Stanford University Chorus.
In this regard, I have to say that real human voices and instruments never sounded "clear" or "dynamic" to me ears in the Hi-Fi sense. For example, did you ever think: "Wow, the clarity and dynamics of his voice is incredible!", when a person talked to you or sang two feet away from you? Also, have you ever been impressed by the clarity, details, and/or dynamic impact of a flute, harp, or cello? It appears to me that the super-clarity or dynamics most audiophiles are obsessed with is some kind of artificial flavor that, albeit pleasant or exciting to listen to, is not found in reality. I had been thinking about this for a while, but reached this conclusion only recently, after singing in the Stanford University Chorus for nearly a year.
Have fun with the Lyeco drivers. I think they deserve to be on larger baffles with two Alpha 15A's on each baffle. Martin's design using 4" fullrange drivers is good for a small room, but an 8" driver might be more satisfying if you like to play the music loud.
You can send PM to ykurtchang at yahoo dot com if you'd like to talk off-line.
Best regards,
Kurt
I haven't seen this mentioned in the thread so far (maybe I missed it) but has anyone thought of rear mouting the FE103 on the baffle and using a front roundover? Rear mounting would better time align the drivers, be less restricting on the rear wave, and facilitate better (possibly) mounting methods (i.e. clamping the driver to the baffle instead of using 4 screws).
That may be true but it's still quite doable. The hole in the baffle would only need to be as big as the inner diameter of the paper ring around the outer edge of the surround. The paper ring would actually act as a gasket too.
Here's a good shot of a driver where you can see the paper ring I'm talking about.
http://www.ellecizen.com/immagini_diy/fe103/fe103_singola_fronte.jpg
Here's a good shot of a driver where you can see the paper ring I'm talking about.
http://www.ellecizen.com/immagini_diy/fe103/fe103_singola_fronte.jpg
Leaning the baffle back may do better in the time-alignment department, and the baffle edge in front may act like a very shallow horn messing with the response. I think it looks better though.
best regards,
PSz.
best regards,
PSz.
The ~0.75" long horn's cut-off is well above the driver's beaming point, so it just needs to be beveled at > ~9 deg to keep standing waves from forming across it.
GM
GM
Re: Bamboo 4" v. FX120
Yes, I've been deeply impressed by the texture clarity, fluidity, dynamic impact of vaious musical instruments. Especially when I'm near enough.
Of course you have to listen to them in the stereophile's way😀
Sounds from a flute has a powder-like texture caused by the air escaping by player's lips. Sometimes it can be played quite loud in front of you, instead of commonly heard weakness in the records.
The clarinet & oboe, so lovely, rich and dense sound in person. Through playback, I always find the density and richness in the sound are missing (at least to some degree).
And the cello, in person nearby, you can surely be moved by the bow-string rubbing, with every micro vibration and seamless mixed with rich resonance of the box.
As to the human voice, professional singers in person always impress me very much. Some of them just blow me away. So much energy!
The dynamics, impact and scale of a piano in person, except "WOW", what else can I say?
Following all above, naturally, I'm totally speechless in front of a set of drums.
Facing the "real things", hifi stuff are only poor imitators🙁
KCHANG said:
Yes, I've been deeply impressed by the texture clarity, fluidity, dynamic impact of vaious musical instruments. Especially when I'm near enough.
Of course you have to listen to them in the stereophile's way😀
Sounds from a flute has a powder-like texture caused by the air escaping by player's lips. Sometimes it can be played quite loud in front of you, instead of commonly heard weakness in the records.
The clarinet & oboe, so lovely, rich and dense sound in person. Through playback, I always find the density and richness in the sound are missing (at least to some degree).
And the cello, in person nearby, you can surely be moved by the bow-string rubbing, with every micro vibration and seamless mixed with rich resonance of the box.
As to the human voice, professional singers in person always impress me very much. Some of them just blow me away. So much energy!
The dynamics, impact and scale of a piano in person, except "WOW", what else can I say?
Following all above, naturally, I'm totally speechless in front of a set of drums.
Facing the "real things", hifi stuff are only poor imitators🙁
Kurt, I am now even more upset that I missed your setup. I too have found much hi-fi to be a caricature of natural sound. As you noted it can be pleasant, but I wouldn't call it natural.
I think that I'm gonna try the lyecos on some quick baffles by themselves mounted fairly low to get an idea of their character. They are reasonably high Q drivers, but will still be limited by their excursion. For playing loud I've got some BIG speakers already. Some speakers for playing relatively quietly would be ok.
I want to explore MJKs design further, and would like to listen to your version. Time is tight right now as my wife and I prepare for our first child, but I will contact you offline soon.
best regards,
Paul
I think that I'm gonna try the lyecos on some quick baffles by themselves mounted fairly low to get an idea of their character. They are reasonably high Q drivers, but will still be limited by their excursion. For playing loud I've got some BIG speakers already. Some speakers for playing relatively quietly would be ok.
I want to explore MJKs design further, and would like to listen to your version. Time is tight right now as my wife and I prepare for our first child, but I will contact you offline soon.
best regards,
Paul
PSz. said:
The lyecos are best suited to an OB, but scottmoose did come up with a double mouth BVR for them -- Loreena. I think i still have version 1.1 on my plate to redo.
The US distrib had a contest on the Full Range Forum, you should have a look to see what transpired.... the 8s got good review
I think it was spread over 2 threads -- here is one of them http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1057
I ended up with a pair of the 4". I was not much impressed with them
dave
I just finished a set of baffles for the MJK O/B design. Mine use the older Fostex 108 sigma and the Eminence 15A. I used the spec 20 x 38 recommended baffle size. I'm currently using a Behringer 2310 active crossover at 350 Hz and bi-amped.
First impression...wow, big bold sound from the woofers and very nice integration to the Fostex. Suprising bass. A definite keeper. Although, I need much more listening time for a proper impression. I don't have the bases built yet so my current placement is propped up against my audio rack. Additional tweaks to follow. I will also build the passive crossover with about 2db of padding for the Fostex (I'm running about a 2db cut now with the active crossover and it sounds about right).
There is something special to the open baffle sound. I am a believer!
My thanks to MJK for posting his work.
First impression...wow, big bold sound from the woofers and very nice integration to the Fostex. Suprising bass. A definite keeper. Although, I need much more listening time for a proper impression. I don't have the bases built yet so my current placement is propped up against my audio rack. Additional tweaks to follow. I will also build the passive crossover with about 2db of padding for the Fostex (I'm running about a 2db cut now with the active crossover and it sounds about right).
There is something special to the open baffle sound. I am a believer!
My thanks to MJK for posting his work.
Isn't crossover too high at 350 Hz or i've missed something? How high could Alpha's be crossed over on such baffle?
My choice of 350 Hz is rather abritrary right now. MJK low passes the 15A at 200 Hz with second order and hi passes the 103 at 500. He states the effective crossover point is around 400 (as I recall). My Behringer only offers 4th order and there is an easy to read mark at 350. I haven't played with it just yet. I intend to build his passive crossover and trust his wisdom on the values.
I don't know how high the Eminence Alpha will go and still sound good. The plot shown for it on the ParstExpress site suggests it may go as high as 1000 with a fairly flat response. I just dialed up the Behringer to about an 800 Hz crossover for a quick 5 minute listen and my initial reaction was not favorable. I may fool around with the crossover some more after I get more dialed into the baseline sound with the 350 Hz cross.
I don't know how high the Eminence Alpha will go and still sound good. The plot shown for it on the ParstExpress site suggests it may go as high as 1000 with a fairly flat response. I just dialed up the Behringer to about an 800 Hz crossover for a quick 5 minute listen and my initial reaction was not favorable. I may fool around with the crossover some more after I get more dialed into the baseline sound with the 350 Hz cross.
The Emerald Physics OB speaker at RMAF crossed two Alpha 15A's over to a waveguide loaded tweeter ar about 1000 Hz. The speaker got very positive feedback from people who visited that room. I think MikeR is very safe with a crossover at 350 Hz. I bet his combination of the FE-108 Sigma and Alpha 15A is a great pairing.
Sounds like it should be good to me. 🙂
FWIW, 500Hz was one of the favourite XO points in the pre T/S days for high-end setups, typically consisting of a couple of 15in woofers crossed to mid - HF horns. It's still a good point IMO, though it's not often used anymore.
FWIW, 500Hz was one of the favourite XO points in the pre T/S days for high-end setups, typically consisting of a couple of 15in woofers crossed to mid - HF horns. It's still a good point IMO, though it's not often used anymore.
I am starting to get cold feet with the plans of using the 103 driver.
it is to handle 5 watts music power, and the alpha 15 is good for 200.
i have a pr. of old fe164 drivers i could use - maybe with a 3 watt resistor to
pad them down? suggestions for resistor values please, and should i go
across the terminals or series. much thanks
it is to handle 5 watts music power, and the alpha 15 is good for 200.
i have a pr. of old fe164 drivers i could use - maybe with a 3 watt resistor to
pad them down? suggestions for resistor values please, and should i go
across the terminals or series. much thanks
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