I started building mine and got many of the pieces of wood cut along with the baffle holes, etc., but then I got distracted with building my tube amp. And then Mr. Teramoto has been encouraging me to build the cabinet he likes, so the pieces of Baltic birch I had cut are still sitting in my garage, waiting for me to come back and finish the project.
I think that Phil loves his Baltic birch Maiko cabinets, and I think that Rich is building another pair with some special thick wood boards that he's constructing himself.
I was thinking that I might wait until CES in January, when I'll be able to hear the new cabinets that Clark built for the NF5ex drivers. Those cabinets are somewhat similar to the cabinets that Mr. Teramoto likes, which apparently sound good with all the Feastrex 5-inch drivers.
In the meantime, I'm happily listening to my D5nf drivers in Freddie cabinets that Rich built with 3/4" pine boards. They sound really good, actually. Mr. Teramoto listened to them while he was here for RMAF, as did Mr. Akiyama (the president of Feastrex) and the other three Japanese representatives of Feastrex who came for the show. They all loved these pine Freddies! Mr. Teramoto went into detail about how much he liked them, and how different they sound from the Baltic birch Freddie cabinets he had built in Japan. They were all very impressed with the amount of bass they produced, too. Mr. Akiyama was particularly impressed with the bass.
Phil and Rich, if you're there, how would you characterize the differences between the Freddie and the Maiko? I'm really curious about that.
My feeling is that the Maiko cabinets would sound better, but since I haven't ever heard them I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions, especially since you've now spent a good amount of time listening to them. For one thing, do they have more bass than the Freddie cabinets? I'd assume they do since they have two horns, but I'd love to hear if that's actually the case or not. Sorry to ask this in an open forum; if you're reading this and would rather send me an email, feel free to do that.
Thanks,
Mike
I think that Phil loves his Baltic birch Maiko cabinets, and I think that Rich is building another pair with some special thick wood boards that he's constructing himself.
I was thinking that I might wait until CES in January, when I'll be able to hear the new cabinets that Clark built for the NF5ex drivers. Those cabinets are somewhat similar to the cabinets that Mr. Teramoto likes, which apparently sound good with all the Feastrex 5-inch drivers.
In the meantime, I'm happily listening to my D5nf drivers in Freddie cabinets that Rich built with 3/4" pine boards. They sound really good, actually. Mr. Teramoto listened to them while he was here for RMAF, as did Mr. Akiyama (the president of Feastrex) and the other three Japanese representatives of Feastrex who came for the show. They all loved these pine Freddies! Mr. Teramoto went into detail about how much he liked them, and how different they sound from the Baltic birch Freddie cabinets he had built in Japan. They were all very impressed with the amount of bass they produced, too. Mr. Akiyama was particularly impressed with the bass.
Phil and Rich, if you're there, how would you characterize the differences between the Freddie and the Maiko? I'm really curious about that.
My feeling is that the Maiko cabinets would sound better, but since I haven't ever heard them I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions, especially since you've now spent a good amount of time listening to them. For one thing, do they have more bass than the Freddie cabinets? I'd assume they do since they have two horns, but I'd love to hear if that's actually the case or not. Sorry to ask this in an open forum; if you're reading this and would rather send me an email, feel free to do that.
Thanks,
Mike
mluckow said:
Yeah, in a phone call the other day he reiterated how recently he has been so impressed by the sound of solid wood enclosures (as opposed to plywood or MDF). He is also a big fan of the solid Bubinga enclosures that were recently built in Japan.
I think he is reaching the tentative conclusion that there are times when it is hard to improve on the sound of natural wood doing its natural wood thing. Which can be a mixed blessing as natural wood doing its natural wood thing also has the potential to sound horrid . . .
But from another perspective it just adds to the challenge and the romance of creating an original and hugely delightful loudspeaker.
-- Chris
I have been meaning to ask him specifically what his current personal favorite enclosure is, but I either forget or get too busy. I know he likes those urushi-finished enclosures, and he also really likes the Bubinga enclosures. I have not heard directly from him about Mike's all-pine Freddies. I'll try to find out.
I suspect he may try to rebuild from plain boards enclosures that were previously made only out of plywood, just to see what happens to the sound.
It occurs to me that field coils give off heat, and plain boards may have a tough time handling that heat, so plain board enclosures may end up being only for permanent magnet drivers.
-- Chris
I suspect he may try to rebuild from plain boards enclosures that were previously made only out of plywood, just to see what happens to the sound.
It occurs to me that field coils give off heat, and plain boards may have a tough time handling that heat, so plain board enclosures may end up being only for permanent magnet drivers.
-- Chris
kmaier said:
Kevin,
They're also known as "Feastrex 50-liter ported enclosures." Here's a drawing, but it's my understanding that they should be 3 cm deeper than shown in the drawing at the link below. Is that right, Chris?
The drawing is currently on The Lotus Group's website, but I think that Clark Blumenstein might be planning to put it on Feastrex's website as well. (I'm not sure what all he's putting on Feastrex's website, but I know he's been adding lots of content to it.)
http://www.lotusgroupusa.com/Cabi D5_5e.pdf
cdwitmer said:
Mr. Teramoto and Mr. Tanaka talked a lot about that at RMAF. Mr. Tanaka was telling people that he wanted to make his urushi lacquer cabinets out of hardwood, and indeed he did make several prototypes with hardwood, but they cracked due to the high heat of the field coil drivers. That's why he had to make his enclosures out of high-grade plywood. (Those field coil drivers get up to 70 degrees Celsius when played continuously at maximum voltage, they said.)
However, it should be noted that compared to the 50-liter ported enclosures, Mr. Tanaka's enclosures are quite a bit narrower and less deep, and the drivers are also right at the top of that narrow "pipe," right where the heat would rise. So, I think the wood around the driver would probably get quite a bit hotter in Mr. Tanaka's cabinets than they would in the 50-liter enclosures.
Clark is currently making hardwood cabinets for the Feastrex NF5ex field coil drivers that are loosely based on the Feastrex 50-liter ported enclosures, so he may already know if heat is a problem with them or not. In fact, I think his enclosures might be a little bit narrower at the top than the Feastrex cabinets, so if he doesn't have any heat problems then the 50-liter Feastrex cabinets should be okay, too.
Mike
mluckow said:
Assuming that's the old drawing, yes, the enclosure should be 3cm deeper, and the port size and position are changed slightly.
Regarding the temperature, I wonder if they would even use the drivers at maximum voltage in any case.
For many years, before moving it into a dehumidified room, I kept a heater inside my piano to keep the humidity down. I don't think heat inside an enclosure is necessarily death to wood planks, but it is certainly true that the construction has to take the presence of heat into account.
-- Chris
By the way, Mike, thanks for the hot sauces! They are a lot of fun!
Unfortunately, I kicked Satan's butt with one hand tied behind my back. (I should have known Satan would be a liar.)
There is no comparison with the most powerful stuff you gave me last time, when the heat turned into such extreme pain that I seriously wondered if I was having a heart attack.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go snort some hot sauce.
-- Chris
Unfortunately, I kicked Satan's butt with one hand tied behind my back. (I should have known Satan would be a liar.)
There is no comparison with the most powerful stuff you gave me last time, when the heat turned into such extreme pain that I seriously wondered if I was having a heart attack.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go snort some hot sauce.
-- Chris
mluckow said:
Thanks Mike (and Chris),
I do have the PDF from the Lotus site and the earlier one Chris has described. I guess my concern is that a few slight changes have happened so it's not 100% clear which enclosure is being touted as Mr. Teramoto's preferred one. Again, I think it would a great idea to have a couple detailed enclosure drawings on the site. I would like to build both the 30-liter and 50-liter enclosures and do some listening tests against the Freddie Chang BVRs I built in solid oak end of last year. Hopefully Clark posts what he's doing for enclosures as well so the DIY guys can have yet another alternative.
Regards, KM
PS - hot sauce? Which ones did you get him??
How very ironic, and a trifle irritating considering the considerable pressure I was put under to massively increase Vb for Maiko 'because it [Freddie] was too small.' Hopefully, there might be a little more faith in old Scott now, so I shall say no more on the subject, other than that I am glad you are enjoying them Mike, and that Mr Teramoto & Mr Akiyama liked them too, now that they've heard Rich's / your properly built & tuned pair.
FYI, as I've indicated in the past, Maiko should have about 10Hz more extension than Freddie, but, if you're interested, that's actually nothing to do with it having twin horns -it's just tuned lower. More significant is the way it will present the soundstage -Maiko should have superior front-back imaging due to the different radiation pattern (think MTM configuration) & sound much 'larger', especially WRT height.
Giving a kind of design critique of Maiko, as is, what it won't have is the kind of driver control I wanted to give it, had I been able to use the Vb I wished -at high SPLs, there will probably be more distortion, particularly but not exclusively in the LF. This sort of large Vb is reminiscent of trad BR design & is good for pro audio applications, but it's not something I personally favour for hifi. YMMV.
Scott
Freddy vs Maiko
Hi all....
Well what can I say...
I've been listening to the Maiko for 6 months.
But I'm going back to the Freddy.
Its going to rebuilt in spruce by Clark and Jason at Lovecraft/ Blumenstein/ Cain& Cain
I have been listen to both over a long period of time...I like the Freddy best.
Phil
Santa Fe
Hi all....
Well what can I say...
I've been listening to the Maiko for 6 months.
But I'm going back to the Freddy.
Its going to rebuilt in spruce by Clark and Jason at Lovecraft/ Blumenstein/ Cain& Cain
I have been listen to both over a long period of time...I like the Freddy best.
Phil
Santa Fe
kmaier said:
Right, it's not quite clear to me how the design has changed, too. I need to see if I kept some of the information that was circulated back when the changes were suggested. I know that Laurence Platt recently built these for his D5nf drivers, but I think that he may have altered his design in a different way.
As for the hot sauce, I sent 10-12 bottles back for Chris with some of the Feastrex folks who came over for RMAF. I didn't make a list of all the different kinds, but two of them were supposed to be hotter than Hell, and perhaps they meant that literally since Satan was on the label of one. Sounds like one of those I brought over for Chris last year kicked Satan's a*s, though. Poor Satan. He should have known better than to tango with Chris!
Scottmoose said:
Sorry about this. The only difference between my Freddies and Mr. Teramoto's is the material. Rich built mine out of pine, while Mr. Teramoto's were made of Baltic birch. That made all the difference in sound. Also, this is what Rich was saying all along, and why he never liked the BB Maiko cabinets he built.
The other day a long-time audiophile friend of mine came over and we listened to these pine Freddies critically for five or six hours. After listening to all kinds of music on them (music that he and I had listened to many times already on his $15,000 audio system), he and I concluded that the Freddies (played by my nice tube amp) indeed sounded better than his with some types of music, especially vocals and acoustic instruments (acoustic guitar, percussion, winds, strings, etc.), while his *might* sound better with hard rock and maybe big orchestral music in which lots of instruments are playing. (And that might only be because my amp doesn't have enough headroom for that kind of music.)
At any rate, Mr. Teramoto had never heard my Freddies until now, and it was a big surprise to him that they sounded as good as they did. Mr. Akiyama was also very surprised at all the bass. (I played a couple songs with some low bass to demonstrate this.)
Well, we all live and learn. But it does seem that consensus is building for solid wood rather than plywood whenever possible.
If I had time, I'd love to drive down to Santa Fe to listen to Phil's Maiko speakers! It would be great to compare them with the pine Freddies side by side! Hey, Phil, do you have room in your yard for me to pitch my tent?? ;-)
Mike
Re: Freddy vs Maiko
I'm not all that surprised Phil, as the existing Maiko enclosure is not all it should be. From my POV as the designer, it was compromised from the off because I was effectively forced to use dimensions which I said at the time would not give the kind of performance I consider satisfactory. A public forum isn't the place for post mortems, but Freddie, despite the simplicity, is the better realised of the two designs IMO.
Last night I started on a Mk2 version of Maiko; this time it's going to be basically what I personally wanted to do in the first place, and should be a step forward.
Phil Townsend said:
I'm not all that surprised Phil, as the existing Maiko enclosure is not all it should be. From my POV as the designer, it was compromised from the off because I was effectively forced to use dimensions which I said at the time would not give the kind of performance I consider satisfactory. A public forum isn't the place for post mortems, but Freddie, despite the simplicity, is the better realised of the two designs IMO.
Last night I started on a Mk2 version of Maiko; this time it's going to be basically what I personally wanted to do in the first place, and should be a step forward.
Re: Re: Freddy vs Maiko
I for one may be very interested in that design. I'm only in the early stages of building mine--it may be possible to use some of the boards I already cut, especially if your new design is smaller. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks, Scott.
In the meantime, I'll soon be trying out my NF5ex field coil drivers in these pine Freddie cabinets since the driver dimensions are identical. I wonder how that will sound . . . .
Mike
Scottmoose said:
I for one may be very interested in that design. I'm only in the early stages of building mine--it may be possible to use some of the boards I already cut, especially if your new design is smaller. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks, Scott.
In the meantime, I'll soon be trying out my NF5ex field coil drivers in these pine Freddie cabinets since the driver dimensions are identical. I wonder how that will sound . . . .
Mike
Re: Freddy vs Maiko
Phil,
Very interested to hear your thoughts on these once they're completed. Spruce is nice stuff.... never even thought of it when I did mine last year which were in solid red oak. Also, if I may ask, what type of bracing did you do and what, if any, damping material was used?
Regards, KM
Phil Townsend said:
Phil,
Very interested to hear your thoughts on these once they're completed. Spruce is nice stuff.... never even thought of it when I did mine last year which were in solid red oak. Also, if I may ask, what type of bracing did you do and what, if any, damping material was used?
Regards, KM
Re: Re: Re: Freddy vs Maiko
No problem Mike. It'll take a little while to work up (probably a month), but I'll try to make sure it's worth the wait.
WRT materials, therein is the point: you have to work with it. They all need to be treated / damped / whatever in different ways, and some are better at some things than others.
mluckow said:
No problem Mike. It'll take a little while to work up (probably a month), but I'll try to make sure it's worth the wait.
WRT materials, therein is the point: you have to work with it. They all need to be treated / damped / whatever in different ways, and some are better at some things than others.
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