Liftoff! We have liftoff!
After a period of introspection, drifting (at least that's what it appeared from half a world away), and deep breaths, my friend has decided.
She's decided on the first component -- B&W 804 speakers.
She's heard KEF 300s, 700s, B&W CM10, and various other speakers. She rejected the idea of standmounts after hearing one or two, stuck to auditioning only floorstanders. I have tried not to express too many opinions, because I feel the most important thing for a first-time investor is that she really likes what she buys. So, B&W 804 D3 it will be. And she can afford them. $9000/pair.
She's found a shop called Chelsea, very close to her office, from where she's getting the B&W 800 series. She said that no other store she visited in Portland stocks the 800 series.
Now she's asking me, what next? The next in the firing line is the amp. I've told her, based on inputs I received from one of you, to go for the Hegel H80 as the first choice. I think it was Konzentr8 who nudged me in that direction. I told her that my initial suggestion of $1000 for amp may not be the best idea if she's going to drive 800 series floorstanders. And from all accounts on the Net, the H80 seems like a superb amp, and has the exact right mix of features: built-in DAC, lots of digital inputs. There are no Hegel dealers in Oregon.
Will the H80 drive the 804 D3 effortlessly in a smallish listening area? What about a larger listening area? Frankly, I'd have been happier if it would drive 100+ W/ch. The Cambridge Audio 851A is cheaper, has 50% more rated power, but will need an external DAC. (Which is not a problem, frankly: a lot of perfectly good DACs will fit in $500.)
The next thing she'll ask about is the source. She's firmly in the 21st century and has no audiophile aspirations, therefore a full-digital source will be perfect. If I had access to her setup to help and support her, I'd give her a RPi box with digital audio out, running Rune Audio, connected over her home network to a NAS box with all her digital music. But she may not be able to troubleshoot it by herself. So, any digital media player which can play music from a USB HDD is fine, I guess. Since I am hoping it'll pump out digital audio, there's no sound quality issue with this component.
Comments welcome. The party's just woken up again. 😀
PS: She wouldn't have been able to reach where she is today without all your help. A big Thank-You for that. 🙂
After a period of introspection, drifting (at least that's what it appeared from half a world away), and deep breaths, my friend has decided.
She's decided on the first component -- B&W 804 speakers.
She's heard KEF 300s, 700s, B&W CM10, and various other speakers. She rejected the idea of standmounts after hearing one or two, stuck to auditioning only floorstanders. I have tried not to express too many opinions, because I feel the most important thing for a first-time investor is that she really likes what she buys. So, B&W 804 D3 it will be. And she can afford them. $9000/pair.
She's found a shop called Chelsea, very close to her office, from where she's getting the B&W 800 series. She said that no other store she visited in Portland stocks the 800 series.
Now she's asking me, what next? The next in the firing line is the amp. I've told her, based on inputs I received from one of you, to go for the Hegel H80 as the first choice. I think it was Konzentr8 who nudged me in that direction. I told her that my initial suggestion of $1000 for amp may not be the best idea if she's going to drive 800 series floorstanders. And from all accounts on the Net, the H80 seems like a superb amp, and has the exact right mix of features: built-in DAC, lots of digital inputs. There are no Hegel dealers in Oregon.
Will the H80 drive the 804 D3 effortlessly in a smallish listening area? What about a larger listening area? Frankly, I'd have been happier if it would drive 100+ W/ch. The Cambridge Audio 851A is cheaper, has 50% more rated power, but will need an external DAC. (Which is not a problem, frankly: a lot of perfectly good DACs will fit in $500.)
The next thing she'll ask about is the source. She's firmly in the 21st century and has no audiophile aspirations, therefore a full-digital source will be perfect. If I had access to her setup to help and support her, I'd give her a RPi box with digital audio out, running Rune Audio, connected over her home network to a NAS box with all her digital music. But she may not be able to troubleshoot it by herself. So, any digital media player which can play music from a USB HDD is fine, I guess. Since I am hoping it'll pump out digital audio, there's no sound quality issue with this component.
Comments welcome. The party's just woken up again. 😀
PS: She wouldn't have been able to reach where she is today without all your help. A big Thank-You for that. 🙂
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The biggest thrill for me, in driving this entire activity, is that we'll all get one more member of our dying breed: the breed of people who actually sit and listen to music, doing nothing else, for some time every week.
I feel like such an anachronism in this regard -- in my darker moments, I feel people like us should best just die out, leaving the world free for those who want to listen to Buddha Bar Lounge EDM and Justin Bieber on their $12 earphones while they jog or do homework.
I feel like such an anachronism in this regard -- in my darker moments, I feel people like us should best just die out, leaving the world free for those who want to listen to Buddha Bar Lounge EDM and Justin Bieber on their $12 earphones while they jog or do homework.
Although the Hegel would be a good match the only official dealer listed is in Springfield MA
Going down a different path and putting the Hegel on ' standby ' for a minute , what amp was used for the demo that persuaded her to go for the 804 's ?
For source Cambridge AZUR 851 N would be my choice .
Going down a different path and putting the Hegel on ' standby ' for a minute , what amp was used for the demo that persuaded her to go for the 804 's ?
For source Cambridge AZUR 851 N would be my choice .
Don't you agree the exact opposite would be a far better solution? I'm musing on the subject as I type listening to a system that is 100% non WAF, never really understood that as I have a woman who understands. After much consideration, there appears to be no downside. I'm so happy now, thanks! 😀
I had a vistor a few weeks ago that upon seeing my system said " oh my god !! don't you have internet here ?"
I explained that i did indeed have internet at which point i was ' advised ' to get rid of my 'junk' and get " one of these " ( Mp3 player ) and some Beats headphones which sound
"awesome" (apparently) " you can even get speakers with no wires now ! "
Yes we are dinosaurs TC but i refuse to become extinct🙂
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The last thing I will ever do is take audio (any) advice from someone who regards MP3 as "awesome" (putting aside the misuse of a an often used hyperbole). Do they listen to Justin Beaver (yes, I know) or Bayonse (yes, I know that too).
Since your friend is spending a fair amount on the speakers have you considered replacing the Hegel with a Benchmark DAC3 and AHB2 amp?
The DAC3 is basically a rather good convertor which also has two analogue inputs and volume control so can be used as a pre but the outstanding feature of both the dac and the amp is very, very low noise. The amp claims a signal to noise ratio of 130dB unweighted and noise is -112dB at 1W!
https://benchmarkmedia.com/pages/product
The DAC3 is basically a rather good convertor which also has two analogue inputs and volume control so can be used as a pre but the outstanding feature of both the dac and the amp is very, very low noise. The amp claims a signal to noise ratio of 130dB unweighted and noise is -112dB at 1W!
https://benchmarkmedia.com/pages/product
From what I can see, that pair of Benchmark items will add up to $5000. I'll hesitate before recommending such a budget.
If she calls Chelsea again and speaks with Kyle, she will get an update on the availability of Hegel from them.
We spoke yesterday about this very thing.
We spoke yesterday about this very thing.
In that case i would definitely go for the Hegel ,i don't think she would find a better match without spending a lot more .
Just need a network player now, preferably with balanced ouputs.
Just need a network player now, preferably with balanced ouputs.
Hi tcpip,
At this point some reality should peek through. You also have to consider service in the future, both warranty and out of warranty. A brand of equipment that isn't represented well isn't going to do her any favours at all. I really do have to recommend that she go more mainstream with her choices in electronics.
It's true there are a lot of products that don't sound very good, but the excellent ones are there to be found. Sometimes even a very "Mid-Fi" brand is actually one of the better choices even considering the one-offs out there. So she should at least audition some of the more common products out there. One example might be the top line Marantz models. I'm not sure what they have today, but from the early 2000's they had some really great sounding equipment. Many other more common brands also had some very nice sounding equipment.
Separate the sources from the amplifier. The amp will generate heat and have a lot of AC supply bounces due to the power it develops at higher levels. 99% of her listening might be at low levels, but who wants a system that falls apart when they try and have fun? Everyone will turn it up occasionally.
Manufacturers who make great amplifiers often don't make great sources. Separating these two allows her to get the best in amplification and whatever source(s) she may want in the future. Who knows what is coming down the pipe?
-Chris
At this point some reality should peek through. You also have to consider service in the future, both warranty and out of warranty. A brand of equipment that isn't represented well isn't going to do her any favours at all. I really do have to recommend that she go more mainstream with her choices in electronics.
It's true there are a lot of products that don't sound very good, but the excellent ones are there to be found. Sometimes even a very "Mid-Fi" brand is actually one of the better choices even considering the one-offs out there. So she should at least audition some of the more common products out there. One example might be the top line Marantz models. I'm not sure what they have today, but from the early 2000's they had some really great sounding equipment. Many other more common brands also had some very nice sounding equipment.
Separate the sources from the amplifier. The amp will generate heat and have a lot of AC supply bounces due to the power it develops at higher levels. 99% of her listening might be at low levels, but who wants a system that falls apart when they try and have fun? Everyone will turn it up occasionally.
Manufacturers who make great amplifiers often don't make great sources. Separating these two allows her to get the best in amplification and whatever source(s) she may want in the future. Who knows what is coming down the pipe?
-Chris
I don't know, but I am told that the dealer has been recommending Rotel amps for the 804. Models: not known.
Anyone buying B&W 800 series speakers is already past that point where safe, widely supported, just-take-it-to-Fry's brands will deliver, don't you think? If one needs that safety, one should buy speakers costing maybe one-third of the B&W 804, so that one can save money too. Any electronics which will make the B&W deliver the performance edge which those extra dollars deserve, will not be mainstream. Specially for someone living in a sleepy suburb of Oregon, not LA/SF/NYC. So, in some sense, the die has been cast.
Marantz high-end items are very good, I agree. But their lowest-end integrated amp in their Reference Series is the PM14 S1, which will probably retail for 50% more than the Hegel H80. The PM10 is $8000 list. Plus, since the PM14 S1 doesn't have a DAC, we budget another $1000 for a good DAC? So, if the Hegel H80 is a risky choice at $2000, the "safer" Marantz choice, with probably poorer performance, will be $4000 list, with DAC. Probably more. What price safety?
I think the convenience of local after-sales support may be traded off against lower price and better performance. I think this trade-off is fair.
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Hi tcpip,
I wouldn't say that. Mostly, I'm saying that well known brands shouldn't be written off. Not that you should buy it at Fry's.
I've done service professionally in the audio field in excess of 35 years now. Most rare or small distribution type equipment has design flaws and spotty service. I view that as a waste of money and something that detracts from the enjoyment of a good system. Note that I didn't say expensive system. The only thing I can recommend are products that have a competent design staff behind them. Parasound might well be worth consideration here.
Too often I am faced with repairing orphans that were terribly expensive when new (and were supposed to be "it"). If there is a common thread between them, I'd have to say they all share design defects somewhere. Big ones. Above a certain price point, that's where these disasters lurk. Rotel is falling too far in the other direction. They aren't that good, really.
Anyway, advise her as you will. I don't think your last reasoning comment works at all.
-Chris
I wouldn't say that. Mostly, I'm saying that well known brands shouldn't be written off. Not that you should buy it at Fry's.
I've done service professionally in the audio field in excess of 35 years now. Most rare or small distribution type equipment has design flaws and spotty service. I view that as a waste of money and something that detracts from the enjoyment of a good system. Note that I didn't say expensive system. The only thing I can recommend are products that have a competent design staff behind them. Parasound might well be worth consideration here.
Too often I am faced with repairing orphans that were terribly expensive when new (and were supposed to be "it"). If there is a common thread between them, I'd have to say they all share design defects somewhere. Big ones. Above a certain price point, that's where these disasters lurk. Rotel is falling too far in the other direction. They aren't that good, really.
Anyway, advise her as you will. I don't think your last reasoning comment works at all.
-Chris
Will there be a difference between, say, the $1,100 CA CXN network audio player and the $1,800 CA 851N player?
I find it hard to believe that anything generating digital audio streams and costing more than, say, a hundred dollars, will have an impact on the sound quality -- the all-important DAC is then outside the DUT. Therefore, in my limited understanding the $500 Pioneer N50 should do as well as the others.
One item which adds to the price is the feature of "headless" usability. If you want to neither connect a TV nor a mobile app to browse through lists of digital files, then the component needs its own screen and IR remote. This feature sets a kind of base price. Without this, even $25 Android-based media players would probably suffice.
So, this is a territory where I'm a bit lost. What are your thoughts? Bluesound Note 2/ Vault 2? RaspTouch audio player (this one I really like)?
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