NaO Note preview

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#82
John, at 12ft do you think that the vertical window will still be important? I mean you should be well into the reverberant field at that point I'd think. Have you ever tried to listen/measure for the vertical nulls at that distance? I can't hear them or measure them in my LR. I can at 5 and 3 ft, but not 9. My speakers do have a more broad vertical window, but not by much. It seems the Note is not intended for near field monitoring. You'd almost think that would be true for any ribbon tweeter, but many near field monitors use them. Strange really.

Dan
 
#83
has anyone built one of these yet? I'm dying to see some builds 😀

Also, isn't this more of a 4.5 way than a 3.5 way? It's confusing me... as I can't imagine spending $2000+ on a speaker without also making the first couple octaves functional!
 
#85
1) the speaker get louder than I can listen to in my 20 x 16 room without strain. It runs about a nominal 88 or 89 dB/2.83V at 1k Hz. Hard to say exactly as the sensitivity varies with frequency with the hybrid design approach. Easily handles a 125W/8 amp. Remember that SPL in a room is not the same as anechoic sensitivity.

2) I rerally don't notice much difference sitting or standing at my listening position with is 12 to 14 feet.

3) There are a number being build around the world (Sweden, England, Denmark, USA, Indonesia) but I think the recession has made a difference. Even orders for my SounEasy Guide have fallen off a cliff. Here is a link to one shown over at HT Guide HTGuide Forum - Statements vs DIY Linkwitz Orion

4) The panel is a 3.5 way. The woofer system takes the system to a 30 Hz, 4th order Bessel HP cut off.
 
#86
Thanks for the update John, and for the interesting thread linked to.

My DIY attempts are merging into a Nao Note from the following history;
B200 (on simple flat baffle)
Alpha15s+B200
Alpha15s+B200+Neo3PDR
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+Neo3 PDR
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+Monacor 3"+Neo3 PDR (inspired by Mjao speaker on this forum)
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+SS10F 3"+Neo3 PDR (Nao Note copy)

All on a four way PLLXO. Constantly improving I'm happy to say.
 
#87
SAC said:
Thanks for the update John, and for the interesting thread linked to.

My DIY attempts are merging into a Nao Note from the following history;
B200 (on simple flat baffle)
Alpha15s+B200
Alpha15s+B200+Neo3PDR
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+Neo3 PDR
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+Monacor 3"+Neo3 PDR (inspired by Mjao speaker on this forum)
Alpha 15s+Monacor 8"+SS10F 3"+Neo3 PDR (Nao Note copy)

All on a four way PLLXO. Constantly improving I'm happy to say.
Click to expand...

No problem. I'm not concerned if people try to emulate the Note or are inspired by the design approach. But I would be pleased if they mentioned the source of their inspiration if it was the Note.
 
#88
SAC, I was some insiration to you via the MJAO and I may think because I also promoted Monacor SP-8/150 PRO as a neutral midbass in various posts here and on other forums. Now just buy yourself a mini-DSP and substitute the Alpha15 for a real basspeaker and you are home. 🙂

/Erling
 
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#89
Above really, I should have written 'decent' instead of 'real'. I play nowadays with the Acoustic Elegance IB15 in my OB. Compared to the Alpha15 it is much more clean sounding, much more articulate and really neutral in its performance. And with EQ it does produce much better clean bass. It is a difference like night and day for the overall sound from the speaker. Crossover is at 277 Hz with 48 dB/oct Butterworth over a Behringer DCX2496.

/Erling
 
#90
Hi Earling, thanks for the inspiration and the further ideas. I want to try baffle changes before giving up on the alphas - probably try u-baffles as per Johns description - since the rear wall is so close to the speakers. The bass is still the weakness in these flat baffles.

I've already got six alpha15s hooked up, three per side (two forward facing, one temporarily propped up in rear), on a flat baffle. I could not justify replacing them unless I happened to find someone to buy them.

P.S. AE15 subs are not available in the UK I believe. The page below has great detail on these and the dcx;
A True Infinite Baffle Subwoofer: April 2007

My issue with the minidsp; it would come after my carefully modded dac/preamp analogue stage, then going through more ad/da stages in the minidsp which must be inferior to the previous stage, negating the quality gained from using a decent dac/preamp in the first place!?!

I want to say more about the PLLXO (with transformers) versus DCX, and other ideas, but I should get my own thread at this rate.
 
#91
Hi SAC,

Sure go ahead, remember though that some tweaking of the Alphas, like putting filt on the inside of legs and try to damp the outside of legs with bitumen or equal sounddeadening material, could be highly beneficial for the overall sound output from these units, such measures apply.

If you go the U-way I don't know the distance restrictions, but certainly you could try damping the Us into cardeoid performance, like John K is proposing, for better performance.

All Good Luck,

Erling
 
#92
skorpion said:
Hi SAC,

Sure go ahead, remember though that some tweaking of the Alphas, like putting filt on the inside of legs and try to damp the outside of legs with bitumen or equal sounddeadening material, could be highly beneficial for the overall sound output from these units, such measures apply.

If you go the U-way I don't know the distance restrictions, but certainly you could try damping the Us into cardeoid performance, like John K is proposing, for better performance.

All Good Luck,

Erling
Click to expand...

If the U is not damped it will be a dipole at low frequency and basically look something like a monopole higher up (around the U resonance peak). Damping it to be more cardioid like will make distance from the wall much less critical for bass. Dipole bass falls off as the dipole is placed closer to a wall with the dipole axis perpendicular to the wall.
 
#93
john k... said:
1)

3) There are a number being build around the world (Sweden, England, Denmark, USA, Indonesia) but I think the recession has made a difference. Even orders for my SounEasy Guide have fallen off a cliff. Here is a link to one shown over at HT Guide HTGuide Forum - Statements vs DIY Linkwitz Orion
Click to expand...

As manufacturer, what do you think the appreciation of 'general public' with regards to Dipole speakers? I suppose they're not (never be) mainstream but is it increasing, etc?
 
#94
Thanks John and Erling. I have left-over material from my DIY sound panels that I intend to use for stuffing. I also bought the damping material to stick to the alphas but it looks like a real drag having to cut it up and attach it without the drivers looking even more ugly. If they end up in a U-frame I suppose that will not matter.

P.S. I'm open to suggestions on how deep a U-frame two alphas would require in a driver width baffle🙂

Hey Gainphile. I would guess the general public would be oblivious to open baffles judging from the marketing I see here in the UK - nothing but boxes really. If the big name companies market them in magazines and the like then they would be accepted surely. More to the point, passive open baffles are going to be too big, and active open baffles are going to be too...inconvenient shall I say!
 
#95
gainphile said:
As manufacturer, what do you think the appreciation of 'general public' with regards to Dipole speakers? I suppose they're not (never be) mainstream but is it increasing, etc?
Click to expand...

I would consider myself as a manufacture. You will never see me offering turn key systems. I had the opportunity to go that route shortly after introducing the NaO II and just decided I didn't want the hassle.

I think it would be hard to comment on the general public. After all, the general public really isn't interested is high end audio in the first place. But my preference has always been for dipole and OB type speakers: Maggies, Quads, Acoustats, Martin Logans, Dayton-Wright. Still, today you can walk into a big box store like Best Buy here in the States and buy a pair of small Martin-Logans. I guess that reflects movement into the main stream. You didn't see that 10 years ago.
 
#96
Would it be possible to make an all active DSP NaONote using Bodzio Ultimate Equalizer, or Acourate, AudioLense, etc? Are the crossover slopes critical to the off-axis performance or can infinite slope filters like AudioLense work OK?

How much amplifier power is recommended for the panel amplifier when using your hybrid crossover?
Thanks!
Rich
 
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