Hi Jac,
I already posted my impressions which are pretty much identical to yours:
I also found interesting this:
That Rike S-Cap could be an alternative, though pricier, to Supremes.
The higher dynamics is probably due to the film/foil construction.
Do you think the difference justify the 2x price difference?
Thanks Jac and Dario for the cap comparisons, no way I could afford all those caps and even if I could, I don't have the patience to try them all.
I had hoped to complete a second set of boards with premium BOM but I cant really afford to, at least not at present so I'm just going to upgrade the working boards I do have to premium level (the only exception being the Mundorf AG PSU caps, probably)
I have a new DAC on it's way, an HRT music streamer 3. It's USB only but that's all I need and it has decent up to date spec so I'm keen to see what improvement it offers over my old one. This and Christmas looming meant I had to abandon the second boards but then they would be expensive items to just have around not being used.
I'm finished with vinyl records for good now.
I had hoped to complete a second set of boards with premium BOM but I cant really afford to, at least not at present so I'm just going to upgrade the working boards I do have to premium level (the only exception being the Mundorf AG PSU caps, probably)
I have a new DAC on it's way, an HRT music streamer 3. It's USB only but that's all I need and it has decent up to date spec so I'm keen to see what improvement it offers over my old one. This and Christmas looming meant I had to abandon the second boards but then they would be expensive items to just have around not being used.
I'm finished with vinyl records for good now.
Tough call. Probably not worth the 2x price. I do like them better, but the overall character is similar enough that it would be hard to justify the price. Actually, I think the Supreme's are a very good bargain, even though they have gone up about 50% since I bought mine. Now that I have looked around a bit, it looks like you guys in Europe can get a better deal on the Rike and Mundorf from HiFiCollective, but it is still 2x price between the Supreme and the S-Cap.
Actually, with the dollar so strong compared to the euro and pound, I thought I would be able to get some good deals, but it seems the price, especially on German made components, has gone up a lot.
Jac
Hi Davy,
Trust me, I had to work up to buying the more expensive ones. Also, I bought all of them a year or more ago when the prices were lower. If at some point, you want to try something different but not so expensive at C13, the Russian K75-10 hybrid paper-in-oil with the little 1 nF Amtrans bypass cap is still one of my favorites. With the bypass, it is very musical and holds up well against all but the best.
In the beginning, I was both satisfied with and never believed I would pay more than $4 for a cap. Trying them is kind of fun. You have to be careful and go back and forth, but it is interesting to hear the differences.
In the meantime, your amp will be great with the components you already have purchased. Just sit back and enjoy it.
Jac
Great to see more experimenting going on, and it's not costing me anything!
Jac, I'm so glad you got to try the Jensen and enjoy it. Since that is an electrolytic, I suspect the performance will (have) change(d) significantly over the first few dozen or more hours. We all know the BG's require a few hundred hours to settle completely. I also think that bypassing with a small film might improve the upper range if it seems a bit dull on top. Small size is the reason I initially chose the Jensen to try at C9. I do believe it could fit laying down if you rethink the lead connections outside the through hole pads.
I tried the Mundorf SIO at C13 a long time ago in a Rev C. I enjoyed the high frequency detail, but I thought it lacked adequate bass response. Seemed to tilt the entire spectrum upward, although the highs were gorgeously detailed and layered, not at all etched. This was with BG std at C9, which became my standard early on. Perhaps the Jensen gives the sound more body. The proper combination is really what it's all about. You seem to have found one you like a lot.
You posed a question in an earlier post about why parts quality matters so much more in this amp than in other amp designs, especially discreet types. I don't have an answer, but only a guess that simplicity of the circuit, purity of output devices, etc may play a role, lowering the threshold at which these passive components are audible.
Regarding Vishay Z-foil: I used those for R12 back in the Rev C, and salvaged them to use in the FE. I soldered the through-hole part leads to the surface mount pads, and it works fine. The combination of Z-foil at R12 and R10 is NOT too much of a good thing. I cannot detect any coloration from the Z-foil, so using them in more than one place does not seem to produce any cumulative effect other than greater transparency. I cannot say if either position is more important, but I would now guess R10.
There certainly are other types of parts that cannot be used in multiple places because their summed coloration will become objectionable. I believe this is what contributes to the "house sound" of brands of commercial gear.
Peace,
Tom E
Jac, I'm so glad you got to try the Jensen and enjoy it. Since that is an electrolytic, I suspect the performance will (have) change(d) significantly over the first few dozen or more hours. We all know the BG's require a few hundred hours to settle completely. I also think that bypassing with a small film might improve the upper range if it seems a bit dull on top. Small size is the reason I initially chose the Jensen to try at C9. I do believe it could fit laying down if you rethink the lead connections outside the through hole pads.
I tried the Mundorf SIO at C13 a long time ago in a Rev C. I enjoyed the high frequency detail, but I thought it lacked adequate bass response. Seemed to tilt the entire spectrum upward, although the highs were gorgeously detailed and layered, not at all etched. This was with BG std at C9, which became my standard early on. Perhaps the Jensen gives the sound more body. The proper combination is really what it's all about. You seem to have found one you like a lot.
You posed a question in an earlier post about why parts quality matters so much more in this amp than in other amp designs, especially discreet types. I don't have an answer, but only a guess that simplicity of the circuit, purity of output devices, etc may play a role, lowering the threshold at which these passive components are audible.
Regarding Vishay Z-foil: I used those for R12 back in the Rev C, and salvaged them to use in the FE. I soldered the through-hole part leads to the surface mount pads, and it works fine. The combination of Z-foil at R12 and R10 is NOT too much of a good thing. I cannot detect any coloration from the Z-foil, so using them in more than one place does not seem to produce any cumulative effect other than greater transparency. I cannot say if either position is more important, but I would now guess R10.
There certainly are other types of parts that cannot be used in multiple places because their summed coloration will become objectionable. I believe this is what contributes to the "house sound" of brands of commercial gear.
Peace,
Tom E
I placed an order with Mouser yesterday for components but they don't have 2 of the 3 listed Caddock Mk132 resistors. According to Mouser they are out of production, I ordered some from Parts Connexion.
Anyway they wont have any NXP BAV99W diodes in stock till next April and while I'm not in a hurry, I don't fancy waiting that long!
Ebay sellers list either BAV99 Sot-23 OR BAV99W Sot-323
I cant seem to find any BAV99W Sot-23
What is the significance of the 'W' can I use the ones listed - NXP BAV99 Sot-23
Cheers
Anyway they wont have any NXP BAV99W diodes in stock till next April and while I'm not in a hurry, I don't fancy waiting that long!
Ebay sellers list either BAV99 Sot-23 OR BAV99W Sot-323
I cant seem to find any BAV99W Sot-23
What is the significance of the 'W' can I use the ones listed - NXP BAV99 Sot-23
Cheers
Ok the BOM listing for D1&2 is NXP BAV99W in a SOT23 package.
According to the data sheet, BAV99W has a SOT232 (very small) package.
BAV99 comes in the SOT23 (small) package.
I'm confused now, is there a misprint in the BOM? does it matter which one I use, will the larger version fit and work just as well, there are differences in spec and I don't want to screw up here.
Anyone?
According to the data sheet, BAV99W has a SOT232 (very small) package.
BAV99 comes in the SOT23 (small) package.
I'm confused now, is there a misprint in the BOM? does it matter which one I use, will the larger version fit and work just as well, there are differences in spec and I don't want to screw up here.
Anyone?
Davy,
I am in the process of soldering together some Fremen Edition rev 1.02 boards that I have been sitting on. The BAV99W parts that I soldered on fit properly and are very small (about the size of an 0805 capacitor like C34). They carried the Mouser part number (purchased more than 1 year ago) of;
771-BAV99W-T/R
and are described as a 75V double diode. I haven't powered up yet, but they match the parts on my original boards which worked just fine. By the way, that part number has been in various FE BOMs for more than 2 years. I checked some older BOMs that were the basis of my original order.
Based on the attached datasheet and the Mouser description of that part number, they are BAV99W which are SC-70 package or also known as SOT323 package. I think you found a typo in the BOM. Hopefully, Dario will confirm, but he sometimes travels for work and can't easily respond.
I would be tempted to go for the SOT323.
Jac
I am in the process of soldering together some Fremen Edition rev 1.02 boards that I have been sitting on. The BAV99W parts that I soldered on fit properly and are very small (about the size of an 0805 capacitor like C34). They carried the Mouser part number (purchased more than 1 year ago) of;
771-BAV99W-T/R
and are described as a 75V double diode. I haven't powered up yet, but they match the parts on my original boards which worked just fine. By the way, that part number has been in various FE BOMs for more than 2 years. I checked some older BOMs that were the basis of my original order.
Based on the attached datasheet and the Mouser description of that part number, they are BAV99W which are SC-70 package or also known as SOT323 package. I think you found a typo in the BOM. Hopefully, Dario will confirm, but he sometimes travels for work and can't easily respond.
I would be tempted to go for the SOT323.
Jac
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Thanks Jac, I came to the same conclusion and ordered these BAV99W SOT323
NXP - BAV70W - DIODE, DUAL, SOT-323 Price For 10 | eBay
NXP - BAV70W - DIODE, DUAL, SOT-323 Price For 10 | eBay
Dam I'm making a mess of this. I originally meant to order these BAV90W
NXP Diode Dual Sot-323 BAV99W | eBay
And instead I ordered BAV70W by mistake and I'm still not sure if either of them would do
NXP Diode Dual Sot-323 BAV99W | eBay
And instead I ordered BAV70W by mistake and I'm still not sure if either of them would do
Possible C14 Alternative
Looking at Mouser, at least here in the US, the Nichicon Fine Gold cap that is specified for C14 in an older BOM (220 uF, 50V, dia 10 mm, lead spacing 5 mm) is currently out of stock and new stock is not expected until mid January. I checked out the FW that is in the current BOM, but found that the tan delta was higher than the old Fine Gold. That might not matter in the power supply for speaker protection, but I thought I would check out alternatives.
I did a little research on alternative caps that are in stock at Mouser and found;
667-EEU-FR1H221
which is a Panasonic FR series (220 uF, 50 V, dia 10 mm, LS 5 mm) that has the same tan delta as the Fine Gold. It also has a relatively low 30 mOhm ESR at 100 kHz. It is the same part as Dario has specified from Elfa Distrelec in the current BOM, just available at Mouser, at least in the US.
Enjoy your build when the boards arrive.
Jac
Looking at Mouser, at least here in the US, the Nichicon Fine Gold cap that is specified for C14 in an older BOM (220 uF, 50V, dia 10 mm, lead spacing 5 mm) is currently out of stock and new stock is not expected until mid January. I checked out the FW that is in the current BOM, but found that the tan delta was higher than the old Fine Gold. That might not matter in the power supply for speaker protection, but I thought I would check out alternatives.
I did a little research on alternative caps that are in stock at Mouser and found;
667-EEU-FR1H221
which is a Panasonic FR series (220 uF, 50 V, dia 10 mm, LS 5 mm) that has the same tan delta as the Fine Gold. It also has a relatively low 30 mOhm ESR at 100 kHz. It is the same part as Dario has specified from Elfa Distrelec in the current BOM, just available at Mouser, at least in the US.
Enjoy your build when the boards arrive.
Jac
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Dario,
Interesting. I'm curious. Why do you prefer the Nichicon FW over the Panasonic FR? Obviously, I haven't compared them, but the specs of the FR are better and the price difference is small.
Jac