Payment Sent.
Race update:
- BMCBob
- SoIL4x4
- Lehmanhill
- b.veneri
- billo44
- arthur
- StefanoSan73
- Suburra
- KSTR (ongoing)
- Randytsuch
- diymax62
- mrsavage
Tomorrow I'll send to Suburra my beta modules with all alternate parts so to have a further opinion on my choices.
Suburra also have acces to 97dB sensitivity speaker so we'll empirically know if the possible hum is audible at all in addition to KSTR's measurements.
Delay with Film
Andrew T,
First an off topic response. Regarding the Scotsman with the Italian name that won Indy, it seems like there were a lot of Italian men in Scotland having babies with Scots women 30 or so years ago. What was going on?
Back on topic.
It looks like your modification to R21, C16, + remove R20 is something that one could do without modification to the PCB, as long as 22 seconds is an acceptable delay time. That way, individuals could decide to try on their own. Do I understand that correctly?
Andrew T,
First an off topic response. Regarding the Scotsman with the Italian name that won Indy, it seems like there were a lot of Italian men in Scotland having babies with Scots women 30 or so years ago. What was going on?
Back on topic.
It looks like your modification to R21, C16, + remove R20 is something that one could do without modification to the PCB, as long as 22 seconds is an acceptable delay time. That way, individuals could decide to try on their own. Do I understand that correctly?
Swapped BG STD 330uf at C9 for BG NX 6.3v 470uf. Wow, its not a subtle improvement. Soundstage is indeed deeper and bigger. BG STD sounds kind of grainy in comparison. Excellent upgrade!
It's a pity they're no longer manifactured and hard to find...
Race update:
- BMCBob
- SoIL4x4
- Lehmanhill
- b.veneri
- billo44
- arthur
- StefanoSan73
- Suburra
- KSTR (ongoing)
- Randytsuch
- diymax62
- mrsavage
- badrisuper
I have a Pieracini as a friend. He is third generation. His Grandad had the license for importing Coca Cola into Scotland.
Yes the remove r20 and change the electro to film is easy done.
The RC is 20seconds. The delay is only a tiny part of that due to the voltage only have to rise to ~ 2*Vbe to trigger ON. The RC takes a lot longer because the voltage has to rise to ~62% of the charging emf.
If you didn't read the thread from our friend Uriah Dailey, please do. We all wish him well and anticipate a bright and productive future.
First FE Review
After a long delay I finally got a review of the Fremen Edition amps. It was not all I had hoped for but informative none the less. The reviewer had it for over a week without auditioning so I went back and put on the squeeze. In all fairness, the market for “audiophile” equipment has really dried up in this area and the proprietor has drastically shifted his inventory and interests toward high-end HT system home integration accordingly.
We did a quick 30 minute session with the amps being driven by flac files played on my Galaxy S II phone. Actually that’s not really a bad thing because that particular unit can outperform many CD players as long as uncompressed media is used. It is just a little limited in gain.
The speakers used were the Paradigm Signature S6 (~$3,500 /pr) and the location was their prime acoustic treated stereo room. I played a variety of music, about seven selections, at what I would guess to be the in range of 74 – 78 db. The speakers were about ten feet apart and the listening position ten to twelve feet away.
For some reason I couldn’t get a lot from the owner (maybe he thought I was a supplier plant of some kind) but what I got was good.
Q: So what do you think?
A: Your right, I was indeed quite surprised. Didn’t expect that at all.
Q: What’s your general impression?
A: Very clean and clear. For the low end they really reach down there, very nice.
Q: Did you hear any electronics/transistor type of distortion?
A: None at all, again I was not expecting that good a sound quality.
Q; From what you heard, would you call the sound more transistor or tube like?
A: Oh no, they definitely lean toward the vacuum tub.
Q: Can you compare it to other amps? Either what you carry or other brands you know?
A: No, I won’t do that, but what you have there is very good. Quite a surprise.
Q: Can you put a comparative dollar value on the amps. I’ve got a little under $600 there as it sits.
A: If a factory rep brought that to me and my cost was $1,000 or in that neighborhood, I’d be very comfortable with that.
That’s about it. I didn’t ask him about the stage because I had no doubt he couldn’t hear what these amps are capable of. In his setup there were few if any reflecting surfaces, which I believe are necessary, in a balanced proportion, to produce proper ambiance. His room was almost like an anechoic chamber with no rear reflecting wall- great for detail but not so good for realistic spacial reproduction in the home. There wasn’t anything bad about the stage, just a bit confined to the speakers in term of width. I’m probably spoiled by my open back Sunflowers that extend that stage well beyond the cabinets.
All in all, though disappointed with the depth of the audition, I’m very pleased with the results of this little review. The owner did say he wished he had more time to listen to some of the music he is more familiar with, but had store duties to attend to. I thanked him for the time he could give and brought the amps home. Don't laugh, but it was like sending your kids off to summer camp - you know they are in good hands, but you still miss them.
Next up – Comparing the FEs to my friend’s Big Buck tube amp – hopefully this weekend.
After a long delay I finally got a review of the Fremen Edition amps. It was not all I had hoped for but informative none the less. The reviewer had it for over a week without auditioning so I went back and put on the squeeze. In all fairness, the market for “audiophile” equipment has really dried up in this area and the proprietor has drastically shifted his inventory and interests toward high-end HT system home integration accordingly.
We did a quick 30 minute session with the amps being driven by flac files played on my Galaxy S II phone. Actually that’s not really a bad thing because that particular unit can outperform many CD players as long as uncompressed media is used. It is just a little limited in gain.
The speakers used were the Paradigm Signature S6 (~$3,500 /pr) and the location was their prime acoustic treated stereo room. I played a variety of music, about seven selections, at what I would guess to be the in range of 74 – 78 db. The speakers were about ten feet apart and the listening position ten to twelve feet away.
For some reason I couldn’t get a lot from the owner (maybe he thought I was a supplier plant of some kind
) but what I got was good.Q: So what do you think?
A: Your right, I was indeed quite surprised. Didn’t expect that at all.
Q: What’s your general impression?
A: Very clean and clear. For the low end they really reach down there, very nice.
Q: Did you hear any electronics/transistor type of distortion?
A: None at all, again I was not expecting that good a sound quality.
Q; From what you heard, would you call the sound more transistor or tube like?
A: Oh no, they definitely lean toward the vacuum tub.
Q: Can you compare it to other amps? Either what you carry or other brands you know?
A: No, I won’t do that, but what you have there is very good. Quite a surprise.
Q: Can you put a comparative dollar value on the amps. I’ve got a little under $600 there as it sits.
A: If a factory rep brought that to me and my cost was $1,000 or in that neighborhood, I’d be very comfortable with that.
That’s about it. I didn’t ask him about the stage because I had no doubt he couldn’t hear what these amps are capable of. In his setup there were few if any reflecting surfaces, which I believe are necessary, in a balanced proportion, to produce proper ambiance. His room was almost like an anechoic chamber with no rear reflecting wall- great for detail but not so good for realistic spacial reproduction in the home. There wasn’t anything bad about the stage, just a bit confined to the speakers in term of width. I’m probably spoiled by my open back Sunflowers that extend that stage well beyond the cabinets.
All in all, though disappointed with the depth of the audition, I’m very pleased with the results of this little review. The owner did say he wished he had more time to listen to some of the music he is more familiar with, but had store duties to attend to. I thanked him for the time he could give and brought the amps home. Don't laugh, but it was like sending your kids off to summer camp - you know they are in good hands, but you still miss them.
Next up – Comparing the FEs to my friend’s Big Buck tube amp – hopefully this weekend.
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Interesting. Personally, I think anechoic chamber is the best way to evaluate audio systems. They should stand tall like that, and should be pretty much holographic in terms of sound stage. I generally ask people if they can detect anything wrong with the amp rather than comparing against something on the market, this opens the room for a whole bunch of opinions. Some of the places that I listen at, the minute they power up, I can detect whether it's what my goal is within 1 minute. 90% of the time I find things that are terribly wrong in about 30 minutes. Reviewers sometimes point out things that I may have missed.After a long delay I finally got a review of the Fremen Edition amps. It was not all I had hoped for but informative none the less. The reviewer had it for over a week without auditioning so I went back and put on the squeeze. In all fairness, the market for “audiophile” equipment has really dried up in this area and the proprietor has drastically shifted his inventory and interests toward high-end HT system home integration accordingly.
We did a quick 30 minute session with the amps being driven by flac files played on my Galaxy S II phone. Actually that’s not really a bad thing because that particular unit can outperform many CD players as long as uncompressed media is used. It is just a little limited in gain.
The speakers used were the Paradigm Signature S6 (~$3,500 /pr) and the location was their prime acoustic treated stereo room. I played a variety of music, about seven selections, at what I would guess to be the in range of 74 – 78 db. The speakers were about ten feet apart and the listening position ten to twelve feet away.
For some reason I couldn’t get a lot from the owner (maybe he thought I was a supplier plant of some kind
Q: So what do you think?
A: Your right, I was indeed quite surprised. Didn’t expect that at all.
Q: What’s your general impression?
A: Very clean and clear. For the low end they really reach down there, very nice.
Q: Did you hear any electronics/transistor type of distortion?
A: None at all, again I was not expecting that good a sound quality.
Q; From what you heard, would you call the sound more transistor or tube like?
A: Oh no, they definitely lean toward the vacuum tub.
Q: Can you compare it to other amps? Either what you carry or other brands you know?
A: No, I won’t do that, but what you have there is very good. Quite a surprise.
Q: Can you put a comparative dollar value on the amps. I’ve got a little under $600 there as it sits.
A: If a factory rep brought that to me and my cost was $1,000 or in that neighborhood, I’d be very comfortable with that.
That’s about it. I didn’t ask him about the stage because I had no doubt he couldn’t hear what these amps are capable of. In his setup there were few if any reflecting surfaces, which I believe are necessary, in a balanced proportion, to produce proper ambiance. His room was almost like an anechoic chamber with no rear reflecting wall- great for detail but not so good for realistic spacial reproduction in the home. There wasn’t anything bad about the stage, just a bit confined to the speakers in term of width. I’m probably spoiled by my open back Sunflowers that extend that stage well beyond the cabinets.
All in all, though disappointed with the depth of the audition, I’m very pleased with the results of this little review. The owner did say he wished he had more time to listen to some of the music he is more familiar with, but had store duties to attend to. I thanked him for the time he could give and brought the amps home. Don't laugh, but it was like sending your kids off to summer camp - you know they are in good hands, but you still miss them.
Next up – Comparing the FEs to my friend’s Big Buck tube amp – hopefully this weekend.
Have you been inside an anechoic chamber for more than 5 minutes?
If you did, would you call that a "natural environment"?
I agree with you there, but would not recommend testing within an anechoic environment.
Not only mechanical noise should be kept within acceptable limits, but also typical acoustical anomalies introduced by the room itself should be minimized.
(acoustical consultant hat off)
I agree with you there, but would not recommend testing within an anechoic environment.
Not only mechanical noise should be kept within acceptable limits, but also typical acoustical anomalies introduced by the room itself should be minimized.
(acoustical consultant hat off)
I guess that's why Bob puts a blanket over his TV when he's listening. Personally, I'm surprised the review was so good. Years ago, I took my car with a Vifa install to the local car stereo shop. I asked them to give it a listen to compare with what they've heard. They said if I wasn't buying anything to hit the road.
Whether anechoic chamber is required or not is determined by how critical a point we are considering. I have been in different chambers, and they do not sound the same even if you just stand in there and talk. Some studios are already pretty dead.I agree with you there, but would not recommend testing within an anechoic environment.
Not only mechanical noise should be kept within acceptable limits, but also typical acoustical anomalies introduced by the room itself should be minimized.
(acoustical consultant hat off)
Most of the time when I ask people to comment after listening in their own environment, I try to withhold my opinions unless specifically asked. It is interesting that when it sounds bad enough to me, people start having a hard time pointing out what is wrong, then I get general comments about sound balance. Then to a point when I start nitpicking myself, I get more feedback. I like to change listening locations when I get into a state of trying to form a deciding opinion on any equipment. Found lots of areas to improve on this way.
Just a couple additions.
For stage - the room was obviously set up on a hot spot arrangement with a three seat sofa ( yes, sometimes a spouse is invited) at the apex of a triangle for the customers. I wanted to tell the owner to get his butt off the couch so I could sit there and hear better, but I maintained my position about four feet off to the right . I probably would have heard more of a holographic image from there, but not much more room ambiance. One of the things I have always liked about these people is they tell the customer up front, to not completely trust what they hear in the store. They promote a free in-home audition on every piece of equipment they sell. I took advantage of that many years ago with some AR 2aX speakers and of course with the "Sonic Holography" equipped Carver preamp.
Some 15 -20 years ago, I paid an extra $35 to Madisound to have the crossovers in my previous speakers designed using the Leap System and tested in a chamber. The results were spectacular but greatly enhanced by a room analysis provided by Steve Deckert at Decware. Simple things like avoiding even number spacing divisions, distance from side and back walls, identifying early reflection targets and damping of at least segments of one wall of a parallel set - all contribute to the sound.
We can anticipate varied reviews (particularly with bass response) from new FE builders that reflect their home environment. Hopefully, the lab results from a couple of the new builders will give an accurate picture of the Fremen Edition amps the way a chamber does for speakers.
For stage - the room was obviously set up on a hot spot arrangement with a three seat sofa ( yes, sometimes a spouse is invited
) at the apex of a triangle for the customers. I wanted to tell the owner to get his butt off the couch so I could sit there and hear better, but I maintained my position about four feet off to the right . I probably would have heard more of a holographic image from there, but not much more room ambiance. One of the things I have always liked about these people is they tell the customer up front, to not completely trust what they hear in the store. They promote a free in-home audition on every piece of equipment they sell. I took advantage of that many years ago with some AR 2aX speakers and of course with the "Sonic Holography" equipped Carver preamp.Some 15 -20 years ago, I paid an extra $35 to Madisound to have the crossovers in my previous speakers designed using the Leap System and tested in a chamber. The results were spectacular but greatly enhanced by a room analysis provided by Steve Deckert at Decware. Simple things like avoiding even number spacing divisions, distance from side and back walls, identifying early reflection targets and damping of at least segments of one wall of a parallel set - all contribute to the sound.
We can anticipate varied reviews (particularly with bass response) from new FE builders that reflect their home environment. Hopefully, the lab results from a couple of the new builders will give an accurate picture of the Fremen Edition amps the way a chamber does for speakers.
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PreSapian, I couldn't agree with you more. What I reported was an accurate description of what happened. My opinion is a different matter. The entire boutique world is notoriously overpriced. I can state categorically that my DIY Sunflower speakers blow those Paradigm boxes out of the water. All the components, drivers and crossover parts, come in around $450 per pair and the cost of the cabinets is builder's option. DIY wins.
What was obviously missing in the review was a direct live comparison to other amps. The current top choices in the store are the Anthem line. A quick web search reveals Anthem is the parent company that also produces the Paradigm speaker family. I am sure those amps would have sounded excellent. I'm also sure there is a lot of necessary price padding to insure the economic survival of both the manufacturer and the retailer. It would be interesting to be able to compare the actual BOM of high end retail offerings to designs like the FE. DIY wins again. (Note: the thousand dollar mark was dealer cost not retail price. Most likely still a low-ball number.)
My other concern was the use of some giant speaker cables. I didn't get the brand or model but they were very close to being a full inch in diameter and six to eight feet long. Probably great for a 200 watt / ch amp, but possibly a challenge for any LM3886 design.
What was obviously missing in the review was a direct live comparison to other amps. The current top choices in the store are the Anthem line. A quick web search reveals Anthem is the parent company that also produces the Paradigm speaker family. I am sure those amps would have sounded excellent. I'm also sure there is a lot of necessary price padding to insure the economic survival of both the manufacturer and the retailer. It would be interesting to be able to compare the actual BOM of high end retail offerings to designs like the FE. DIY wins again. (Note: the thousand dollar mark was dealer cost not retail price. Most likely still a low-ball number.)
My other concern was the use of some giant speaker cables. I didn't get the brand or model but they were very close to being a full inch in diameter and six to eight feet long. Probably great for a 200 watt / ch amp, but possibly a challenge for any LM3886 design.
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