I'm loving that everyone is talking about.... Nothing.
No context, no specs, nothing.
Just "I'm listening to these speakers right now and they sound crap."
Which speakers, which equipment, what kind of room, what kind of expectations, etc....
I guess some people are just bored on a Sunday.
😀
No context, no specs, nothing.
Just "I'm listening to these speakers right now and they sound crap."
Which speakers, which equipment, what kind of room, what kind of expectations, etc....
I guess some people are just bored on a Sunday.
😀
A well designed bass reflex can sound very good, but i think the one that you are talking about is not well designed. One note bass ported speakers are typical when the port and the size of the cabinet are not tuned to the speaker driver.
But at the end, i also prefer sealed cabinets above them. But the margin is not that big.
OB is good for the upper range, but getting a decent bass out of an OB is very hard to impossible. I heared many that were claimed to be good, but it was always only upper bass, not the lowest octaves (below 50Hz) that i heared.
But without context (which cabinet with wich driver and so) we are just random discussing things without any usefull result...
But at the end, i also prefer sealed cabinets above them. But the margin is not that big.
OB is good for the upper range, but getting a decent bass out of an OB is very hard to impossible. I heared many that were claimed to be good, but it was always only upper bass, not the lowest octaves (below 50Hz) that i heared.
But without context (which cabinet with wich driver and so) we are just random discussing things without any usefull result...
Bass reflex speakers are exactly like front wheel drive cars - a very long way from the best possible solution, but ok for most consumers who don't really care...
A single poor example of a general enclosure type does not magically imply all such enclosures suffer from the same traits.
If the example in question was as bad as the OP claims, it was either inappropriate for the system in question, or simply badly designed / implemented. Without any description or context however, the thread has no value.
Incidentally a 'bass reflex' is not technically the same thing as a Novak or T/S type ducted vent box.
If the example in question was as bad as the OP claims, it was either inappropriate for the system in question, or simply badly designed / implemented. Without any description or context however, the thread has no value.
Incidentally a 'bass reflex' is not technically the same thing as a Novak or T/S type ducted vent box.
Ported boxes are a useful compromise between low-frequency efficiency and cabinet volume. I find them pretty ideal in the PA world, and they have their place in HiFi, too.
It's worth noting that ported boxes are minimum-phase, meaning if they're EQ'd to have the same frequency response as a sealed box, then the phase response will match.
The claims of "boomy" sound are more likely to do with the designer not considering room gain in their initial designs: ported boxes are often designed for a flat anechoic response, which isn't useful in domestic spaces.
Chris
Hi Chris,
My main problem with ported/transmission line/folded horn/tapped horn et al. is the almost universally large amount of poorly damped energy stored in the system. This can be seen clearly in the step response of such enclosures which is inevitably awful; in particular with Helmholz Resonators, or ported enclosures as we call them.
I feel that it is the stored energy which is largely responsible for the very often flabby and tuneless 'one note' sound of ported enclosures, particularly when the designer has tried to extract as low a cutoff as possible using small drivers as is so often the case - not clever. Trying to obtain the maximum bang for the buck so to speak is the main reason ported speakers often sound so terrible. Sealed enclosures do away with almost all of the above issues at a stroke, but at the expense of efficiency and the requirement for EQ and often a lot of power! One cannot mess with the laws of electroacoustics; bend them to ones will somewhat, but never break them...
I have to agree largely with the OP that, more often than not, reflex really does suck!
Cheers, Carl.
this thread has a big value for me as i now learn more about possible speakers designs. sorry for the ignorant title 'bass reflex sucks' but it seems to work well to get people here to discuss.
Experiments with more than 1 variable, like the one the topic starter mentioned (different topology and different frequency curve) are never useful. The reason is that no one can know what is the cause of the audible difference.
On top of that, there's no mention of listening protocol, so no one can even determine if there even was an audible difference in the first place.
Why do these kind of threads come up all the time?
On top of that, there's no mention of listening protocol, so no one can even determine if there even was an audible difference in the first place.
Why do these kind of threads come up all the time?
Carl,
As noted, the step response (which is a function of the frequency & phase responses) of a sealed and ported box can be identical if the two boxes are EQ'd to have identical frequency response curves.
I'll dig out some graphs. Let's see who can identify, by looking at the graphs, whether the speaker is ported or sealed.
Chris
i would change the topic but the forums do not let me (AFAIK it is not possible in this forums). anyway here is the new topic name = "my no name speakers with bassreflex suck".
well the flamawar is hopefully extinguished now.
the speakers are some no name "audiotop HLS-11" i can't even find it on the interwebs.
at least i post a pic here: Audiotop HLS 11 - Album on Imgur
You can see it is a 3-way speaker with one bass reflex hole (currently with an old tshirt inside, but i should better seal that off properly)
well the flamawar is hopefully extinguished now.
the speakers are some no name "audiotop HLS-11" i can't even find it on the interwebs.
at least i post a pic here: Audiotop HLS 11 - Album on Imgur
You can see it is a 3-way speaker with one bass reflex hole (currently with an old tshirt inside, but i should better seal that off properly)
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At least with bass reflex, you have the opportunity to easily go aperiodic, as you've done with your t-shirt!
vinylkid thank you. i wrote an "email" via the helpdesk. surprised i could not find an IRC channel of diyaudio... as this would help to fix this emergency. people are going MAD!
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Quite... Mad, and don't forget utterly insane.
We are a bunch of fanatics after all.
Saying bass reflex is bad is a bit like saying that American cars can only go fast on a straight road.
Very generalizing statement.
Any kind of design is possible to muck up, don't blame the physics.
We are a bunch of fanatics after all.
Saying bass reflex is bad is a bit like saying that American cars can only go fast on a straight road.
Very generalizing statement.
Any kind of design is possible to muck up, don't blame the physics.
anyway thanks to the wrong title i learned much more about bass reflex. title now fixed. thanks anonymous admin 🙂
The short version of it is something like:
Someone's (several, lots) been doing simplistic quick'n'dirty designs to save a bit of cash on development.
Giving bass reflex a bad reputation.
Like anything else it can be great and it can be crap.
Someone's (several, lots) been doing simplistic quick'n'dirty designs to save a bit of cash on development.
Giving bass reflex a bad reputation.
Like anything else it can be great and it can be crap.
I find it amazing how many high end speakers still use vent tube bass reflex to augment the low registers when other means are available that sound better. It’s all a matter of cost I think.