Good Evening everyone. I thought I would share these boxes I made for the Fostex FF85WK drivers.
I made these for my wife..Not perfect because.of lack of tool availability and time and a place I could build them. I have all top shelf parts and felt and wire and binding post and felt on the back of the magnet. I soldered all wires point to point soldering. The bottom feet are from home depot..They keep the boxes from moving. So I really enjoyed listing to Chet Atkins Christmas Album on Pandora. I used top of the line wire I stripped and made my self. All mono price coonecter ends that are all gold cooper coded on the wire ends. I played on a older Nad integrated amplifier through my phone for now. It sounded very nice and a nice sound stage. I had them against a brick wall but, I heard most of the notes but, the lowest bass. This me has 90% of what am looking for in a full range driver. Here are a few pictures to go with my project. David from planet 10 was right these are a real treat to listen to.. My wife loves them. She said they are the right size and sound and she can listen to her music now. So on to next project? Can the Mark Audios Alpair drivers go toe to toe with this Fostex drivers? I will find out?. Jeff
I made these for my wife..Not perfect because.of lack of tool availability and time and a place I could build them. I have all top shelf parts and felt and wire and binding post and felt on the back of the magnet. I soldered all wires point to point soldering. The bottom feet are from home depot..They keep the boxes from moving. So I really enjoyed listing to Chet Atkins Christmas Album on Pandora. I used top of the line wire I stripped and made my self. All mono price coonecter ends that are all gold cooper coded on the wire ends. I played on a older Nad integrated amplifier through my phone for now. It sounded very nice and a nice sound stage. I had them against a brick wall but, I heard most of the notes but, the lowest bass. This me has 90% of what am looking for in a full range driver. Here are a few pictures to go with my project. David from planet 10 was right these are a real treat to listen to.. My wife loves them. She said they are the right size and sound and she can listen to her music now. So on to next project? Can the Mark Audios Alpair drivers go toe to toe with this Fostex drivers? I will find out?. Jeff
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Nice job on the builds. The Markaudio drivers like the Alpair 5.3, Alpair 7ms, and Alpair 11ms will be a definite step up from the Fostex units in terms of realistic detail retrieval. The larger drivers will of course bring more bass and take up more space. Good luck on your build journey.
Thanks for the compliment..I can do better just to many
.things playing a factor. So on to the Mark Audio drivers. I had the Alpair 3' generation 1 with the blue cone when they first came out. It has a very natural midrange but the bass was limited and the highs rolled off very quickly and made the drivers sound soft. I know you can get only so much from a 3 inch driver. I don't know about micro details or how any of the new Mark Audio drivers sound? So the Alpair 7.3' comes in Paper and metal? I'm probably going to go with paper ones? Hopefully I can get a good comparison between the fostex and a mark audio..I will build them to Mark Audios spec's and use all the same parts and same Nad and speaker wire. Thanks again for reply. Jeff
.things playing a factor. So on to the Mark Audio drivers. I had the Alpair 3' generation 1 with the blue cone when they first came out. It has a very natural midrange but the bass was limited and the highs rolled off very quickly and made the drivers sound soft. I know you can get only so much from a 3 inch driver. I don't know about micro details or how any of the new Mark Audio drivers sound? So the Alpair 7.3' comes in Paper and metal? I'm probably going to go with paper ones? Hopefully I can get a good comparison between the fostex and a mark audio..I will build them to Mark Audios spec's and use all the same parts and same Nad and speaker wire. Thanks again for reply. Jeff
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Good job, Jeff.
It can get better. EnABL the driver (there are a few easier mods that can be done 1st) and a slighly more evolved box design.
The Mark Audio Alpair 5.2 (maybe a bit smoother) and 5.2 is definitly in the same league as the FF85wk, maybe a bit smoother. I listened to µFonkenSET and µMar-KenSET (same box, Fostex or MA) for an afternoon and i could not choose a winner.
If you want some bass helpers, i am wanting to draw up a design for a pair of W14 in a Woden TL that are form fitting stands for small boxes such as these. If you want to takle another project email me… basically a development of the successful TL in Tysen V2.
dave
Thanks David it's been a long time coming. I have seen pictures of the tyson speaker and I really like it. I am interested in my next build to build the tyson v2. With bass helpers. The only problem is what driver to use? I just would like to get a little more micro detail? It's hard to choose because I have no idea how the new Mark Audios sound? I Could do a Alpair 11ms drivers on the side and the Alpair 5 in.the front? Would this work? Or the Alpair 7p or the Alpair Pluvina 7 PHD or the HD? Please let me know what your thoughts are on these drivers for my next project.. Also I have no small kid in the house now she grown up..So I don't mind spending a little more on drivers these days. Jeff
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If you want bass, you want bass drivers in that dedicated role. We have been very pleased with the Silver Flute W14 we use in Tysen V2. I have a number of small miniOnkens for them, but i would like to reshape them for use with the micro & milli size boxes. They are good and amazingly cheap (for about $100 you can get 4). They provide performance on par with the 2 x as pricey Peerless 830870 we use in these.
These are impetous to do a W14 version of the woofer (it will be a bit awkward for the trapezoids).
BTW, Tysen V2.2 is the same but for substituting A5.2/3 for the FF85wk. One would have to rework the high pass if you wanted a passive XO and not bi-amp.
There are many good MA drivers. And a few that are not (at least compared to the others). I expect you would be happy with A5.2/3, A6.2m, A7.3, A7ms, P7HD. A7p is OK but has some issues that take a long break0in at least to minimize.
The paper cone drivers (like the blue A6.2p you had) have what i call a vintage top end, soft & rolled of smoothly) probably not to your taste.
How big, how much budget?
As to clarity & detail, the metal Alpairs are best, if you can ease the bass they have to do it gets even better. The larger drivers typically have the capability to go lower, but the smaller ones tend to have an edge up top. Do note that the P7HD is a development of the A7.3, but i have yet to listen to mine.
dave
These are impetous to do a W14 version of the woofer (it will be a bit awkward for the trapezoids).
BTW, Tysen V2.2 is the same but for substituting A5.2/3 for the FF85wk. One would have to rework the high pass if you wanted a passive XO and not bi-amp.
There are many good MA drivers. And a few that are not (at least compared to the others). I expect you would be happy with A5.2/3, A6.2m, A7.3, A7ms, P7HD. A7p is OK but has some issues that take a long break0in at least to minimize.
The paper cone drivers (like the blue A6.2p you had) have what i call a vintage top end, soft & rolled of smoothly) probably not to your taste.
How big, how much budget?
As to clarity & detail, the metal Alpairs are best, if you can ease the bass they have to do it gets even better. The larger drivers typically have the capability to go lower, but the smaller ones tend to have an edge up top. Do note that the P7HD is a development of the A7.3, but i have yet to listen to mine.
dave
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Well this is what I am thinking? If you want to rework the box design I am all for it. I can wait I still have to buy the drivers. I am leaning towards the Mark Audio's Alpair 7MS drivers. Now for the low end Can it be a 6 1/2 or 7 inch driver? or do you want to stick with a 4 inch. So I will go ahead and buy the Mark Audios this weekend and get the other low end drivers next week some time. Let me know what you thought is about this Tysen fast design? Also the crossover has to be passive due for the time being. Ugh sorry if its a rework for you David. Jeff
The Tysen V2 is our secound small WAW. Its performance is superb. And the drivers can be had for about $200.
The woofers are decidedly way better than their price would indicate and teh Woden TL gets you down to about 35 Hz.
We tend to prefer pairs of woofers, and in Tysen the push-push loading leads to extremely low box structural load.
I do not do XOs so i am not able to revise it.
Scott did do an XO for A7ms in Nanosaurus. It uses a single A12pw in an MLTL, and is definitly better than W14 but many times pricier.
The same XO would probably be a good 1st pas sfor A7ms and A12pw in the p10-hifi big Mar-Ken plus matching midTL for the A7ms.
Scott might be able to work up a 1st pass XO for A7ms and the W14.
There are a huge number of potentially good woofers out there. Biamping makes things so much easier (and can be cheaper, especially if you already have a spare amp lying around). Passive XOs are much harder and limit the choice of bass drivers.
dave
The woofers are decidedly way better than their price would indicate and teh Woden TL gets you down to about 35 Hz.
We tend to prefer pairs of woofers, and in Tysen the push-push loading leads to extremely low box structural load.
I do not do XOs so i am not able to revise it.
Scott did do an XO for A7ms in Nanosaurus. It uses a single A12pw in an MLTL, and is definitly better than W14 but many times pricier.
The same XO would probably be a good 1st pas sfor A7ms and A12pw in the p10-hifi big Mar-Ken plus matching midTL for the A7ms.
Scott might be able to work up a 1st pass XO for A7ms and the W14.
There are a huge number of potentially good woofers out there. Biamping makes things so much easier (and can be cheaper, especially if you already have a spare amp lying around). Passive XOs are much harder and limit the choice of bass drivers.
dave
Wow David a lot to think about? Am going to still buy the Mark Audios Alpair 7Ms and then the woofers? Yes lots of canadets? Yes biamping is the way to go but, I just don't have a extra amp laying around. I will be getting a extra amp in 2021 towards the summer or sooner. I think am going to do the Tyson v2..I have always liked the way they looked. I think I can figure out the crossover between the drivers? So the Alpair 12p might be to much for me right now unless something changes? Let me look around for the woofers this weekend? Is there something Pacific that I need to look for in the woofers I'm going to be using David? Jeff
Alpair 12pw. Looks the same, a quite different driver.
Tysen, named after my godson.
You need to put the A7ms into a good box and see where you are at. Don’t get ahead of yourself. What were you thinking?
Earlier you suggestted A11ms as woofers, the A7ms has greater LF extention potential.
dave
Re The FF85WK vis a vis any of several Mark Audio approximately equivalent drivers; if you’re happy with the former in the enclosure shown, then adding bass support-along with high pass filtering for the Fostex- would likely improve your smile quotient more than linearly. The little Woofer towers Dave showed were two cheap little 4” Peerless per side, and crossed over IIRC somewhere in the 200-300hz range. I don’t think we ever did a passive XO for that combo - they were PLLXO and bi-amped. Even though a total of 4 of those little Peerless aren’t certified THX compliant, they seemed to blend quite nicely with the 85WKs .
I would like the 11ms as side woofers and the 7ms as the front driver. Will this work for a fast design? Yes am getting a head of my self. If not I can use the 7ms as the front driver and pick another low end woofer out? What's your thoughts on this David? Jeff
I was waiting for you to chime in? Thanks for your advice and what you thought of the fostex with the woofer combo. Yes wish I had a extra amp around. Something to save for this coming new years. Jeff
If the Alpair 7ms is used alone in a CGR style box, will the LF extension potential be optimized in a 9 liter box or a 13 liter box or a box of some other size. This is very interesting information. Does this optimized box design actually exist ? I like the 11ms very much but the 7ms in an optimized cabinet might have more potential given a proper amplifier. I guess the question is, how does one optimize the 7ms in a CGR style box that actually edges out the performance of the larger 11ms in any CGR style box ?
Given that the optimum miniOnken for A7ms is the same one as A11ms but for the driver details and the venting is tuned lower (ie bigger box for the driver size). With the A7s one can also fit the driver on the “side” or “top” (which then become the front.
A larger BR can be tuned a bit lower with a circular vent (aka plumbing pipe), but one loses a bit of (or a lot if badly done) finesse.
To get more you need a TL (Pensil) or FH3. Max out with Maeshowe.
The miniOnkens make good satelittes as one can acoustically adjust the roll-off with damping in the vent (pushing it even more aperiodic).
The CGR is a good place to start. F10 near 40 Hz anechoic.
dave
A larger BR can be tuned a bit lower with a circular vent (aka plumbing pipe), but one loses a bit of (or a lot if badly done) finesse.
To get more you need a TL (Pensil) or FH3. Max out with Maeshowe.
The miniOnkens make good satelittes as one can acoustically adjust the roll-off with damping in the vent (pushing it even more aperiodic).
The CGR is a good place to start. F10 near 40 Hz anechoic.
dave
The Pluvia 11 CGR box you sometimes show. I am not sure of the box volume. Would this be close to an optimized box for the Alpair 7ms only with the vent widths adjusted and of course a smaller driver hole ? What is the volume of this box ?
I dropped some 3" computer speakers into a Woden Lance "baby labyrinth" enclosure that I built. I am not set up to make measurements, but the bass is surprisingly deep, clean, and satisfying. The Lance was actually designed for the FF85wk so the results might equal or surpass your bass reflex design (which looks really nice!). Good luck in your quest!
Optimum miniOnken volume for the A7ms is the same as teh A11ms at 9 litres, the CGR Pluvia 11 is 9 litres and the same (but for driver & venting) as the 2 drivers above. A7ms tuned lower than A11ms which is tuned just a bit lower than the P11.
dave
dave