^^^^^
2 of these isobaric Parallel wired
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830667-8-Paper-Cone-SLS-Subwoofer-264-1102?quantity=1
BOOM!
Isobarik has nothing to do with push-push.
The Q on that driver is even a bit high for sealed (unless EQ), Isobarik would be 14 litres + overhead, Push-push would be 56 litres (by PEs suggestion).
I have a pair of vintage Philips AlNiCo 10s downstairs,someone doesn’t take them off my hands i might have to make a woofer.
dave
The Q on that driver is even a bit high for sealed (unless EQ), Isobarik would be 14 litres + overhead, Push-push would be 56 litres (by PEs suggestion).
I have a pair of vintage Philips AlNiCo 10s downstairs,someone doesn’t take them off my hands i might have to make a woofer.
dave
They ARE nicer. But they eat up a limited budget. So can you explain why this is such a hard limit?
- You said 6" to 8"-Physics says generating bass SPL means moving air, more and more at lower frequencies. I would not consider 6" to be a SUBwoofer at all, nor really an 8" though maybe with a port for more low frequency output and not expecting big SPL.
- In very small boxes it almost doesn't seem to matter what driver you shove in there. Somewhere I have a thread I can't find oh wait https://www.avsforum.com/threads/what-driver-for-a-0-83-cubic-foot-sub.3293881/page-2#replies Some simulations I haven't posted yet show little difference from cheapie to massive-cone subs, like 1-2 dB at the lowest frequencies.My working hypothesis is the stiffness of the air in the small box just chokes off the response.
- Hence to riff on @weltersys mention of Hoffman's Iron Law, the first and most important point is to make the box as big as you can tolerate.
In 2021, I was in a similar situation as yours @svp: .
I even never had any subwoofer before, and I borrowed some to my friends for tests, Celestion, Klipsch, etc... All in a BR or ASW -type enclosure.
Not amazingly convinced by the tone quality, I tested the Ripole Subwoofer, as described and patented by its creator Axel Ridtahler, a German acoustic engineer. Here's the general principle :
And here's my take on the subject : the Omega Ripole.
I even declined it in smaller versions for testing :
The only issue on these smaller versions was to find a quality compact integrable subwoofer module, and it's where I failed : I found none...
Other than that, the performance is very interesting : very low, deep, floating bass extension (think 10Hz below the resonance of the speaker), no boxy sound at all, swift impulse response in attack and decay, amazing compactness...
The only drawback is the reduced efficiency, which is circa 6 (2 spkrs) to 10dB (1 spkr) under the nominal efficiency of the speaker, and if you are not listening to the loud usual earthquakes, explosions and thunder from the Home Theater, but simply music, even quite louder, this is easily compensated by the subwoofer module.
T
Ripoles are good as nearfield subs. They give directional bass and can be tuned quite low. Few people have the luxury to put two speakers right at their seat though. I like the smallest one in your picture. It may be a good idea to put it on top of a regular sub and measure the polars.
Yes. According to Axel Ridtahler, the Ripole offer an even front dispersion of 90°, but with a minimum of pressure level placed perpendicularly, that is to say at each L and R sides of the Ripole. The ideal position of the Ripole is centered between the speakers, with some distance from the wall to free the back openings.
But as you note it, placement speaker is not so ideal for most people, and subwoofer placement is often in an angle of a wall, somewhere in the room, where a discrete place is available... This is usually fine with BR and sealed SW, but not premium for Ripole : that's a drawback too.
I tested successfully my Omega Ripole Micro with this configuration below :
The result was amazing : a deep, natural bass extension to 25-30Hz was possible for such a small setup, without any boxy sound, BUT the SW module was the serious one used on my bigger Omega Ripole 2x12", used here as a stand. And it made all the difference...
With the small SW module originally intended for this Micro-Ripole, it was merely catastrophic : LPF frequency and slope setups possibilities were poor, and therefore, the result was simply awful in comparison... That's why I abandoned this project, otherwise, it would have worked very fine !
T
Any updates? I think these are workable requirements.
I built subs with an Eminence Lab 12 driver in a sealed 28 liter cabinet, with calculated F3 of 37hz. The sound quality is excellent. I think I paid $250 (usd), so a bit out of budget....but I think most drivers with a cast frame will exceed the budget.
While designing, I found there were not many drivers that would achieve low frequency in a small sealed enclosure, atleast not without a lot of DSP. I wanted the "natural" response to match my target.
I think there are high excursion subwoofers capable of this, but I did not like the aesthetics of a huge rolled surround many of them have. So the Lab 12 was the perfect driver for me.
Hi, fredygump,
No, still no updates...
Was on long vacation-workation and now have lots of work and other responsibilities. No time for hobbies. Life.
Now looking for all the available info about the subwoofers, especially about the quality bass without EQ, but the info scares me - subwoofers is the most discussed topic in audio, but the ratio of (discussion) quantity vs quality makes me sad.
No, still no updates...
Was on long vacation-workation and now have lots of work and other responsibilities. No time for hobbies. Life.Now looking for all the available info about the subwoofers, especially about the quality bass without EQ, but the info scares me - subwoofers is the most discussed topic in audio, but the ratio of (discussion) quantity vs quality makes me sad.
The only subwoofer that you can buy regular on the EU market and meets your demands are from Reckhorn.
They are way better quality than the price tag makes you expect. He doesn't promote it, but you buy direct from the designer and importer. No dealer or platform to inflate the price. There are very few chassis that match them in performance, even at +50% in price. The DIYS market has become very greedy in the last years, with prices more than double.
They are way better quality than the price tag makes you expect. He doesn't promote it, but you buy direct from the designer and importer. No dealer or platform to inflate the price. There are very few chassis that match them in performance, even at +50% in price. The DIYS market has become very greedy in the last years, with prices more than double.
I already contacted Reckhorn (Mr. Reck himself, I think). Yes, they are really a strong candidate for all the DIY subwoofer builds in this side of the pond. But the pricing on the website is without VAT and postage expenses, which are not so friendly, when add them to final price - you are in the SB acoustics territory from THLP or local supplier. No free lunch there.
BTW, SB acoustics seem to raise prices for their drivers recently.
Totally agree. I can sign with blood on those words.
I would do less reading and instead spend time with a simulation software! I like VituixCAD. It allows you to choose cabinet parameters and rapidly see how different drivers will perform in that cabinet. It has many pre-loaded, and you can add parameters for ones that are not included.Hi, fredygump,
No, still no updates...
Now looking for all the available info about the subwoofers, especially about the quality bass without EQ, but the info scares me - subwoofers is the most discussed topic in audio, but the ratio of (discussion) quantity vs quality makes me sad.
I have built several subwoofer prototypes, and even though I do something completely different every time, it always seems to work exactly how the simulation predicts. So I would trust the software more than the internet.
I have been impressed with how much better my DIY subwoofers perform compared to a manufactured subwoofer that costs approximately the same amount. I spend $200 on a driver, buy a sheet of MDF, and I end up with a subwoofer that rivals a $2,000+ subwoofer.
I assume you know about soundimports.eu? They sell Dayton Audio subwoofers, which do come in 12", 15", and 18" versions. They cost more for you before VAT than here in the states, but they are considered to be a good value. I am currently using an RSS265HF-4 (10") and Ultimax 12-22 (12"). They perform as expected.I wish Reckhorn offered 12" or even 15" subs
Yeah, I'm considering the RSS315HO-44 for a build and while it seems like a great driver, it seems to me a Reckhorn alternative might give me 90% of the performance for half the price... or even better performance if I go double, for a similar price
I have built lots of different subs using LAB12s, and measured their response.
28L is a tiny cabinet for a LAB 12. At 37Hz it's response is ~-6dB, F3 closer to 47 Hz.
I've found Hornresp simulations to match the measured response quite well.
Attachments
I don't want to contradict you, because I was lazy and I didn't re-do the simulation when I posted that. But I did glance at my measurements of the cabinet I took recently. I was playing with the subwoofer integration. Despite these spiky traces, the combined result was quite good. (Lab 12 is the green trace, measured from listening position).
But yes, it is small. The only reason I made it so small is it is part of a 4 way speaker, and I was struggling to keep the overall size under control.
Klaus Reck is a nice guy, but he may have gotten something wrong if he told you so. What I don't believe. The price of the driver is including VAT.
If your flag is correct, you are in the EU and use the Euro, so you only pay this price plus postage. That's all.
No special extra punishment for buying in the West. Even if Mr. Putler dislikes it.
Most British citizens didn't realize this fact until they left the EU to live in UK misery again. Mainly because they where told nonsense from local dealers for all the happy EU years.
Postage is 15.50 Euro to Lithuania, delivered to your doorstep. Just looked it up at reckhorn.com
So your price is 89 Euro + 15.50 for the 10" subwoofer chassis.
No extra import taxes or VAT as you may think.
I know many people like to complicate things and try to negate the advantages of the common market for some reasons...
By the way, I often buy car parts from your country.
Probably you are right. I tested pricing for smaller 165, it was smth like this:
I bit weird pricing practice, and I still did not understood 53.93EUR is for the D-165i woofer + postage + VAT?
OK; to explain: €34.99 is the speaker including VAT
Then, there are two different ways to calculate postage at reck.com. I take the one from the German website, which seems the new, increased price and is
€15.50 + €0.95 per kg (the small woofer is 3kg).
Everything gets more expensive here.
So you got a total for 3kg of €53.34 what is what you have to pay for it, delivered to your door step, no extra cost.
This contains 21% VAT, which makes €9.26
Price without VAT, only important for commercial working people with customs registration, is €44.08. They pay the VAT in their home country. In Lithuania this is 21%, just like in Germany. So nothing to win doing a complicated customs declaration.
You are a private person, so in the EU you only pay the VAT of the delivering country and NO VAT in yours!
The 10" woofer will cost you 6x €0.95 per kg + €15.50 + €89.90
Don't take the small woofer, it is for cars and very, very small rooms and will not deliver what you expect. The 10" is fine for you. Better save a little longer and get the real thing. With subs, the outer dimension for small ones is very disadvantageous, so in the end the larger chassis doesn't take that much more space as you might think. This ratio brutto/ netto get's even worse when you install a plate amp into the build.
Then, there are two different ways to calculate postage at reck.com. I take the one from the German website, which seems the new, increased price and is
€15.50 + €0.95 per kg (the small woofer is 3kg).
Everything gets more expensive here.
So you got a total for 3kg of €53.34 what is what you have to pay for it, delivered to your door step, no extra cost.
This contains 21% VAT, which makes €9.26
Price without VAT, only important for commercial working people with customs registration, is €44.08. They pay the VAT in their home country. In Lithuania this is 21%, just like in Germany. So nothing to win doing a complicated customs declaration.
You are a private person, so in the EU you only pay the VAT of the delivering country and NO VAT in yours!
The 10" woofer will cost you 6x €0.95 per kg + €15.50 + €89.90
Don't take the small woofer, it is for cars and very, very small rooms and will not deliver what you expect. The 10" is fine for you. Better save a little longer and get the real thing. With subs, the outer dimension for small ones is very disadvantageous, so in the end the larger chassis doesn't take that much more space as you might think. This ratio brutto/ netto get's even worse when you install a plate amp into the build.