I have been following this thread with great interest. I am planning to make something similar but with Eminence 12" Governor speakers, since I have ready access to these in the local market. I am contemplating Beyma horn or a Fostex supertweeter.
I do not mean to hijack this thread but will be happy if anyone can comment on the Governor speakers for this kind of a design.
Thanks.
I do not mean to hijack this thread but will be happy if anyone can comment on the Governor speakers for this kind of a design.
Thanks.
Anilva
I have tried 4 types of 12" eminence drivers, some dearer than the CAnnabis Rex. The word from those that have used Tone Tubby's and Rex Cannabis And Audio Note Hemp cones all agree that the tonal details are beyond comparison with a lot of the more 'standard' speaker drivers out there. Another thing that Hemp has provided is little or no shouting from a 12" cone providing up to 6k extension. The Cannabis REx is Ridiculously cheap for what it can do, but I would love to hear more comparisons from others who have compared these speaker drivers with others in OB arrangements.
I have tried 4 types of 12" eminence drivers, some dearer than the CAnnabis Rex. The word from those that have used Tone Tubby's and Rex Cannabis And Audio Note Hemp cones all agree that the tonal details are beyond comparison with a lot of the more 'standard' speaker drivers out there. Another thing that Hemp has provided is little or no shouting from a 12" cone providing up to 6k extension. The Cannabis REx is Ridiculously cheap for what it can do, but I would love to hear more comparisons from others who have compared these speaker drivers with others in OB arrangements.
Thanks. What about cone-breakup that is so common with guitar speakers. Do they not matter when using in a OB configuration? Are your Cannabis Rexs not breaking up?
Regards
Regards
If you read the data analysis on the rex's they were designed for minimal breakup from what I can see, i certainly have had no evidence of this.
I have a thought, musicians have suppossedly trained musical ears, so what benefits are there in using their own bass guitar cabinets/drivers and amps??? BAss to me seems to be a very hard area to get right especially in an open baffle situation.
I see Eminence have now made a 10" hemp cone bass speaker driver and there is now the Cannabis Major with alnico magnet at a whooping £270 a piece.
Got the second pair of rex's will dial them in serially over the weekend. I suspect this will be the best speaker i have ever owned.
I see Eminence have now made a 10" hemp cone bass speaker driver and there is now the Cannabis Major with alnico magnet at a whooping £270 a piece.
Got the second pair of rex's will dial them in serially over the weekend. I suspect this will be the best speaker i have ever owned.
O.K
doubled them in series. Again a big jump in the realsim factor, one each side is just not enough. At the present time I am in audio Nirvana, it really does sound that good. No shouting, no frequency aberrations, realism, presence, solidity, timbrel detail like I have never heard, tonal warmth that sounds correct, no leanness whatsoever to be found here. I feel like I have achieved what I was out to do, have a pair odf speakers that is the best I have yest come across from about 150 hz upwards and all because of a simple material called HEMP!!
I am now going to look into musicians bass set ups, I believe the truth can only lie with those who create the music themselves, not with us non musician technoheads.
So in summary then, the picture looks like this for my ABC2 DIY Speakers:
4 Eminence Cannabis rex (totally unmodified), WIRED IN SERIES 2 EACH SIDE
2 Beyma CP360M with their BACK COVERS REMOVED and crossed over at 2uf
each speaker sits on air platforms
plywood baffles as per Bastanis plans readily available from BAstanis audio
The Subwoofers are still needing a bit of work on, not least equalisation, await the Behringer DCX, but again hemp subwoofers may be the way to go or look into professional bass guitar set ups.
doubled them in series. Again a big jump in the realsim factor, one each side is just not enough. At the present time I am in audio Nirvana, it really does sound that good. No shouting, no frequency aberrations, realism, presence, solidity, timbrel detail like I have never heard, tonal warmth that sounds correct, no leanness whatsoever to be found here. I feel like I have achieved what I was out to do, have a pair odf speakers that is the best I have yest come across from about 150 hz upwards and all because of a simple material called HEMP!!
I am now going to look into musicians bass set ups, I believe the truth can only lie with those who create the music themselves, not with us non musician technoheads.
So in summary then, the picture looks like this for my ABC2 DIY Speakers:
4 Eminence Cannabis rex (totally unmodified), WIRED IN SERIES 2 EACH SIDE
2 Beyma CP360M with their BACK COVERS REMOVED and crossed over at 2uf
each speaker sits on air platforms
plywood baffles as per Bastanis plans readily available from BAstanis audio
The Subwoofers are still needing a bit of work on, not least equalisation, await the Behringer DCX, but again hemp subwoofers may be the way to go or look into professional bass guitar set ups.
Another thought.
Bass guitarits are all into timing and rhythm,in a live gig this has to happen, doesn't it?? Hence their bass speaker set ups must have the range, depth and speed. I will research this over the next week, but I believe their way may be the right way???????? I think they all use enclosed cabinets, but what drivers?? what amplification demands and cabinet designs?????
Bass guitarits are all into timing and rhythm,in a live gig this has to happen, doesn't it?? Hence their bass speaker set ups must have the range, depth and speed. I will research this over the next week, but I believe their way may be the right way???????? I think they all use enclosed cabinets, but what drivers?? what amplification demands and cabinet designs?????
Interesting, TRaskutis, but i have to be very honest I do not audibly notice it in my present set up, not yet anyway. If you read my above posts I did mention that there was a lift in the speakers upper range when I first heard them and it seems therefore I was very accurate in this audible assessment. However, in the set up as it is at present moment, I am using two of these speakers in series and also (forgot to mention) that I have added woolfibre into the rear of the chassis, not to mention various other factors associated with the room placement ,air support, open baffle board positoning etc etc. Shame I have not got measuring tools. However, I think throwing graphs into this assessment defeats the purpose, as I am only intertested in what my heart and soul gains from the music heard.... numbers will always only play a smaller role in my assessments.
Don't get me wrong, i am not criticizing, just genuinely wanted to know whether you notice it as it is quite big peak....
I think a good solution would be to to stop that driver at 1khz and to let beyma play from 1 khz up.
I think a good solution would be to to stop that driver at 1khz and to let beyma play from 1 khz up.
hi audiojoy - how's your system playing now? did you use swamping resistors across the cannabis speaker? does it do well on cello?
Yes I agree 100% with that (I am a bass player of course).
If you get this part right you won't need a sub-woofer. I am yet to hear a sub-woofer that improved the sound of bass. I avoid them at all costs.
Eden make good bass cabinets, so do Trace Elliot. My favourite is a 2 x 10" set-up.
Trace Elliot use Celestion woofers, but I am not sure what Eden use. If you can try to find out what Eden use you couldn't go wrong really.
http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/cabs/
I though I would add this quote
"When it comes to bass, most people think that bigger is better. This is not necessarily the case. Some will prefer the sound of several smaller speakers in one cabinet, others will prefer the sound of one or two larger speakers in a cabinet. Several smaller speakers in a bass cabinet delivers a tighter, more accurate sound. A larger speaker tends to be a bit heavy, perhaps even "mushy" sound."
Hopefully that is enough to get you started.
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I do not see how you can make a statement that multiple motors could possibly deliver a tighter or more accurate sound. It goes against everything I've learned about drivers and acoustics.
The mushy sound you refer to is simply a case of poor motor design. ie: inexpensive driver, high Q.
I didn't make that statement.
Those are not my words, but words from a guy a who designs speaker cabinets for professional musicians.
Having said that I have played through more different cabinets than I can recall.
Here is a list
1 x 12"
2 x 12"
2 x 10"
4 x 10"
8 x 10"
1 x 15"
1 x 18"
And here is a list of brands
Eden
Nemesis
Trace Elliot
Messa Boogie
Ampeg
Fender
Peavey
Hartke
Warwick
Ashdown
Gallien Krueger
SWR
Behringer
and many others not worth naming
It is not a coincidence that the most popular bass cabinet among professional bass players is either 4 x 10" or 2 x 10".
I would disagree with your coment regarding poor motor design eg inexpensive driver.
I was looking at buying a Messa Boogie 1 x 12" but after playing it I was totally unimpressed. I then hooked up to the cheapest 2 x 10" Hartke. The Hartke won hands down.
It may come down to personal preference, but I am yet to hear a single 15" that sounds better than a 2 x 10", and if I had to number the amount of different cabinets I have played through it would be well over 50.
Sometimes hands on experience is more important than knowledge gained from a text book.
Espescially if the experience goes hand in hand with a highly trained ear that a professional musician has (but not necessarily an engineer has).
As Nelson Pass says "The ear wants to hear what the ear wants to hear"
If you don't think what I have to say about this is worth 2 cents. Then hopefully you will reconsider that opinion when I tell you that Francis Rocco Prestia, Bass player for Tower of Power uses a 8 x 10" cabinet.
Now if you want to say that Francis Rocco Prestia doesn't know anything about bass playing and tone then go for it.
Those are not my words, but words from a guy a who designs speaker cabinets for professional musicians.
Having said that I have played through more different cabinets than I can recall.
Here is a list
1 x 12"
2 x 12"
2 x 10"
4 x 10"
8 x 10"
1 x 15"
1 x 18"
And here is a list of brands
Eden
Nemesis
Trace Elliot
Messa Boogie
Ampeg
Fender
Peavey
Hartke
Warwick
Ashdown
Gallien Krueger
SWR
Behringer
and many others not worth naming
It is not a coincidence that the most popular bass cabinet among professional bass players is either 4 x 10" or 2 x 10".
I would disagree with your coment regarding poor motor design eg inexpensive driver.
I was looking at buying a Messa Boogie 1 x 12" but after playing it I was totally unimpressed. I then hooked up to the cheapest 2 x 10" Hartke. The Hartke won hands down.
It may come down to personal preference, but I am yet to hear a single 15" that sounds better than a 2 x 10", and if I had to number the amount of different cabinets I have played through it would be well over 50.
Sometimes hands on experience is more important than knowledge gained from a text book.
Espescially if the experience goes hand in hand with a highly trained ear that a professional musician has (but not necessarily an engineer has).
As Nelson Pass says "The ear wants to hear what the ear wants to hear"
If you don't think what I have to say about this is worth 2 cents. Then hopefully you will reconsider that opinion when I tell you that Francis Rocco Prestia, Bass player for Tower of Power uses a 8 x 10" cabinet.
Now if you want to say that Francis Rocco Prestia doesn't know anything about bass playing and tone then go for it.
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The Eminence BASSLITE® CH2010 (hemp cone), maybe worth a try, since you seem to like the sound of hemp cones.
These is just an idea, not an endorsement (I haven't tried them for myself).
These is just an idea, not an endorsement (I haven't tried them for myself).
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Neither is it a coincidence that these offer relatively small packages. I had a Mesa 1x15 that I loved. It was 18"x24" tall rather than a 2x10 at 12-13" tall by same width. It was fantastic in the lows and was lively or "fast". But it was lifeless in the treble. Needed a HF driver to fill it out.
Also, wouldn't 10" drivers get more out of that range and deliver more of the "nuances" from the higher registers. Most guitar players do not go past 12" for this reason, right? Also, Eden, et al add HF drivers to their cabs. Then there is the question of directivity of larger drivers. In a live un-PA'd setting, would more folks (players/audience) get less one-note bass out of smaller drivers. (That last bit I can be talked out of...it's just a thought.)
If I would build a rig, I would go with something similar to Tony Gee's setup: 2 cabs, with 1x15 plus HF driver. Now...what was the original thread? Oh, I've got a couple of Eden 10"/4ohm drivers that I should check into the QTS and Fs.
A 2 x 10" might be a small package but a 8 x 10" is definitely not a small package.
I think Audiojoy has the right design philosophy, it often comes down to personal preference.
The only advice I would give here is find a shop that just sells bass guitars (ie specialist bass guitar shop) and ask the guy behind the counter if he can show you his best 15" cabinet and his best 4 x 10" cabinet.
Then ask the guy to play through each connected to his best amp head, and listen very carefully. Then you will know what you like best without having to pay a cent.
Then my apologies. It's the statement I take issue with, not the messenger.
It certainly does and no one can say a preference is correct or not.
Now you're talking my language
Good advice.
Good advice indeed.
Eden used to claim to be the "flattest" bass cabs on the market. Found the T/S on the drivers I've got:
Fs = 43Hz
Znom = 4 ohm
Re = 2.2 ohm
Qts = 0.16
Qms = 3.26
Qes = 0.17
SPL = 97 dB/W
Sd = 0.034 m^2
BL = 10.08 T-M
Le = 9.2 E-04 H
Vas = 2.75 ft^3
Decent in a small vented enclosure, will have to look into OB. But, with the lower QTS, doesn't the response drop slowly towards Fs rather than extending out to Fs?
Eden used to claim to be the "flattest" bass cabs on the market. Found the T/S on the drivers I've got:
Fs = 43Hz
Znom = 4 ohm
Re = 2.2 ohm
Qts = 0.16
Qms = 3.26
Qes = 0.17
SPL = 97 dB/W
Sd = 0.034 m^2
BL = 10.08 T-M
Le = 9.2 E-04 H
Vas = 2.75 ft^3
Decent in a small vented enclosure, will have to look into OB. But, with the lower QTS, doesn't the response drop slowly towards Fs rather than extending out to Fs?
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