Beyma tweeter
Hi audiojoy, how do you like the beyma tweeter? Could you describe it's character? cheers
Hi audiojoy, how do you like the beyma tweeter? Could you describe it's character? cheers
I have now expeimented with the eminance beta 12LTA and the CX with two per speaker in series as per Bastanis.
No doubt that the eminace beta 12LTA's with whizzer removed are better. More air more detail more soundstage depth, and a tremendous increase in presence. probably not surprising as they go 'higher'
The Beyma Tweeter continues to be impressive, totaly unobtrusive smooth sounding sweet and detailed. I hardly notice it is in the picture. Indeed these speakers are just so naturally and with minimal tinkering (only a single cap in the way) extremely cohesive sounding. Shame i cant measure them. They sound so alive and free from boxy colourations. I am, tempted not to even bother bringing out the Quad esl57's or the YAm NS1000's out of hibernation to compare, i feel so confident about the sound.
The dipole 12" subwoofers are just about ready to be included in the picture shortly.
I dont even feel the need to 'enable' or treat the cones which is going some, but i expect as i continue to listen more critically i may start to notice subjective frequency dominations.
No doubt that the eminace beta 12LTA's with whizzer removed are better. More air more detail more soundstage depth, and a tremendous increase in presence. probably not surprising as they go 'higher'
The Beyma Tweeter continues to be impressive, totaly unobtrusive smooth sounding sweet and detailed. I hardly notice it is in the picture. Indeed these speakers are just so naturally and with minimal tinkering (only a single cap in the way) extremely cohesive sounding. Shame i cant measure them. They sound so alive and free from boxy colourations. I am, tempted not to even bother bringing out the Quad esl57's or the YAm NS1000's out of hibernation to compare, i feel so confident about the sound.
The dipole 12" subwoofers are just about ready to be included in the picture shortly.
I dont even feel the need to 'enable' or treat the cones which is going some, but i expect as i continue to listen more critically i may start to notice subjective frequency dominations.
Thanks for the updates, audiojoy.
I would be fascinated to know your reaction to hearing the Yamaha NS1000s after you have been thoroughly acclimatized to these open baffles.
This is all very encouraging, as we are not talking a king's ransom in DIY cost, nor difficult construction.
Thanks again for sharing your results.
Russell
I would be fascinated to know your reaction to hearing the Yamaha NS1000s after you have been thoroughly acclimatized to these open baffles.
This is all very encouraging, as we are not talking a king's ransom in DIY cost, nor difficult construction.
Thanks again for sharing your results.
Russell
Hi Russell
You are right for very little outlay I believe I already have a giant killer. I will be dragging out the Yamahas as soon as the flooring is completed in the hifi room, hopefully within the next month. I would not be surprised in the least if they were better than the Yamahas. The Yamahas were better than the stacked Quads in every way except for that last bit of realism and naturalness in the midrange. The Quads in their turn were quite an eye opener and superior to my Audio note ANE Silver signatures which were again better than Avantgarde duo's , audio physic avanti's, HArbeth monitor 30 and 40's and a whole host of speakers I can now hardly remember the names of! Yet there are so many other open bafffle routes i could experiment with, I just wonder if i happen to by chance have fallen upon the optimum incarnation of this series?? Only ONE CAP in the entire speaker link minus the electronic crossover for the dipole subwoofers to be dialled in at around 120hz. Or so it was for the 8" XXL which i have now sold and about to replace with the peerless 12"xxl's.
I am still fascinated by the idea of a second opposing pair of Beyma tweeters which i have already bought and waiting to test out. Yes, eventually i will start to paint pretty patterns and lacquer the cones ever so gently. The Plywood stand still needs tweaking with feet and oils and goodness knows what else, so there is much to experiment with in the coming winter months.
Still not convinced by what i have read by the full range single drivers but yet another avenue to try in this set. Guess the eminence speakers are probably going up to 6-7k without the whizzer but will never know without measuring equipment.
You are right for very little outlay I believe I already have a giant killer. I will be dragging out the Yamahas as soon as the flooring is completed in the hifi room, hopefully within the next month. I would not be surprised in the least if they were better than the Yamahas. The Yamahas were better than the stacked Quads in every way except for that last bit of realism and naturalness in the midrange. The Quads in their turn were quite an eye opener and superior to my Audio note ANE Silver signatures which were again better than Avantgarde duo's , audio physic avanti's, HArbeth monitor 30 and 40's and a whole host of speakers I can now hardly remember the names of! Yet there are so many other open bafffle routes i could experiment with, I just wonder if i happen to by chance have fallen upon the optimum incarnation of this series?? Only ONE CAP in the entire speaker link minus the electronic crossover for the dipole subwoofers to be dialled in at around 120hz. Or so it was for the 8" XXL which i have now sold and about to replace with the peerless 12"xxl's.
I am still fascinated by the idea of a second opposing pair of Beyma tweeters which i have already bought and waiting to test out. Yes, eventually i will start to paint pretty patterns and lacquer the cones ever so gently. The Plywood stand still needs tweaking with feet and oils and goodness knows what else, so there is much to experiment with in the coming winter months.
Still not convinced by what i have read by the full range single drivers but yet another avenue to try in this set. Guess the eminence speakers are probably going up to 6-7k without the whizzer but will never know without measuring equipment.
Last edited:
What amazes me is that the midrange tonality of the 12LTAs comes even close to, let alone surpasses, all of those illustrious designs - and your ears and years of experience add still more credibility.
The efficiency and dynamic capability is just a massive gift.
The efficiency and dynamic capability is just a massive gift.
well i hope my audio memory is not failing me but the acid test will be when i at least put back the Yamaha,s for comparison. i will report back then
But that midrange toality is so seductive at the moment using just £40 drivers!!!!!!!
Luke
But that midrange toality is so seductive at the moment using just £40 drivers!!!!!!!
Luke
Last edited:
Hello Audiojoy.
Thanks for a great thread, cant wait to hear about your completed setup 🙂
I was wondering about the crossover frequency and if beaming is a problem with the woofers as the wavelengths they are producing become shorter than the driver diameter. I have heard this is a real issue and causes sound stage collapse, but from your reports the sound stage is awesome!!
I hope I'm not missing the point, is this overcome with the OB design/horn tweeter setup?
Cheers for the enlightenment.
Dean
Thanks for a great thread, cant wait to hear about your completed setup 🙂
I was wondering about the crossover frequency and if beaming is a problem with the woofers as the wavelengths they are producing become shorter than the driver diameter. I have heard this is a real issue and causes sound stage collapse, but from your reports the sound stage is awesome!!
I hope I'm not missing the point, is this overcome with the OB design/horn tweeter setup?
Cheers for the enlightenment.
Dean
HI Dean
Well there is no obvious frequency changes when moving from side to side but the sweet spot for stereo imagery has to be finely tuned unfortunately
Well there is no obvious frequency changes when moving from side to side but the sweet spot for stereo imagery has to be finely tuned unfortunately
Audiojoy, did you try putting back the cover on the compresion driver ? Where did you get your horn from?
I listened to the "real deal" (bastanis) and it sounded very good.
I listened to the "real deal" (bastanis) and it sounded very good.
O.k for those of you who have been emailling me, I can now report on the comparison between these speakers- which I will call ABC1 and the Yamaha NS 1000 with usual crossover. The house is close to finished and the hifi room is AT LONG LAST up and running, complete with seperate mains circuit run in screened copper
The ABC1 was awsome, even without the subs set up yet. The yam sounded smeared, less alive, less dynamic, less detailed and less musical. The ABC1 does lack a little bit of tonal warmth and of course bottom end oomph as well as a little bit of soundstaging without the subwoofers in place at the present time, but that hardly detracts from the tremendous pleasure I was obtaining from them. It is the best speaker i have ever owned, even without subwoofers in place.
They are almost totally unchanged from when first built! with only a single cap in the entire crossover.
I do not remember my Audio physic Avanti, Avantgarde duo or the HArbeth 30 or 40 sounding as live and realsitic as this. The Quad 57 as great as its midrange is, would not beat the ABC1 for overall frequency range, dynamics and liveliness, which means more enjoyable overall.
I had time to experiment with the floor support for the speaker. I used two Townshend Seismic sinks I happen to have lying around, and minimally inflated them. I was not surprised at the improvement. More air, more sibilance, better TONAL RANGE And even more DYnamic and alive sounding. Infact on deflating the sinks the sound lost a lot of its life which i had previously thouroughly enjoyed. If you cannot get the sinks, just get a board of plywood and inflate a bicycle tyre underneath it with some side support and you will get the same affect, I am sure. Come to think of it, did MAx Townsend not build speaker supports with this very idea several years ago???
Will report more as I experiment further. Need to get the subwoofers up and running next.
The ABC1 was awsome, even without the subs set up yet. The yam sounded smeared, less alive, less dynamic, less detailed and less musical. The ABC1 does lack a little bit of tonal warmth and of course bottom end oomph as well as a little bit of soundstaging without the subwoofers in place at the present time, but that hardly detracts from the tremendous pleasure I was obtaining from them. It is the best speaker i have ever owned, even without subwoofers in place.
They are almost totally unchanged from when first built! with only a single cap in the entire crossover.
I do not remember my Audio physic Avanti, Avantgarde duo or the HArbeth 30 or 40 sounding as live and realsitic as this. The Quad 57 as great as its midrange is, would not beat the ABC1 for overall frequency range, dynamics and liveliness, which means more enjoyable overall.
I had time to experiment with the floor support for the speaker. I used two Townshend Seismic sinks I happen to have lying around, and minimally inflated them. I was not surprised at the improvement. More air, more sibilance, better TONAL RANGE And even more DYnamic and alive sounding. Infact on deflating the sinks the sound lost a lot of its life which i had previously thouroughly enjoyed. If you cannot get the sinks, just get a board of plywood and inflate a bicycle tyre underneath it with some side support and you will get the same affect, I am sure. Come to think of it, did MAx Townsend not build speaker supports with this very idea several years ago???
Will report more as I experiment further. Need to get the subwoofers up and running next.
Traskutis
I have not as yet put back the back cover for the tweeter. I will do that in the next few days hopefully, you obviously know something I dont. I am hoping to add a second pair backwood firing shortly.
The horns are plastic bought from ebay, I just typed in horns and there happened to be a pair for sale by chance- one offs-cost £5. The Bastanis uses specially built wood horns i believe.
I would also love to hear the real deal BAstanis, as that obviously uses the very specialised drivers with a different crossover arrangment and his own specific subwoofer design very different to mine. Mr BAstanis does sell the drivers seperately as a kit i do believe, hence that is why he has the speaker template and crossover designs freely avaialble to anyone on his site. However, i have a lot of experimenting to do with my own drivers as yet, and the air suspension really has taken it further by a significant margin.
I have not as yet put back the back cover for the tweeter. I will do that in the next few days hopefully, you obviously know something I dont. I am hoping to add a second pair backwood firing shortly.
The horns are plastic bought from ebay, I just typed in horns and there happened to be a pair for sale by chance- one offs-cost £5. The Bastanis uses specially built wood horns i believe.
I would also love to hear the real deal BAstanis, as that obviously uses the very specialised drivers with a different crossover arrangment and his own specific subwoofer design very different to mine. Mr BAstanis does sell the drivers seperately as a kit i do believe, hence that is why he has the speaker template and crossover designs freely avaialble to anyone on his site. However, i have a lot of experimenting to do with my own drivers as yet, and the air suspension really has taken it further by a significant margin.
Hey Audiojoy,
Could you elaborate on the differences between the Beta LTA and Cx ?
I have the CX but am possibly going to try the LTA hoping it has a litte more "warmth".
thanks
Could you elaborate on the differences between the Beta LTA and Cx ?
I have the CX but am possibly going to try the LTA hoping it has a litte more "warmth".
thanks
NVR-
I have not tried the coaxial version so cannot comment. Personally not keen suspicious regarding quality of tweeter driver.
However, another intersting nights listening with several friends comparing the Yamaha NS1000 and ABC1.
Overall the ABC1 had great midrange and great presence with a sweet, crisp and clean sounding top end, and that classic feeling of freedom from 'boxiness'. However, it was noted that the yamaha had better harmonics in the lower mid/upper bass regions, giving instruments such as guitars a more realistic tone and tunefulness. Furthermore the Yamaha's did have lightning fast transients (??artificial sounding) and more startling dynamics compared to the ABC1's.
This made me wonder why there were less harmonics coming from the ABC1??? Is this bcause you need an enclosure to resonate, like natural wood instruments do. These resonations then create those harmonics which give the characteristic sounds allotted to instruments and hence the ability to recreate the correct emotional content. So how do you recreat those missing harmonics at those specific frequencies (subjectively evaluated i must add)?? Remember the midrange for vocals was not a culprit here and had that Quad-like sound in the ABC1's - still very very good!
I have read elsewhere that one could create an enclosure below and attached to the bass of the open baffle with its own tuning port to allow for recreation of some of these harmonics without actually enclosing the drivers. Anyone ever tried such a thing???
I have not tried the coaxial version so cannot comment. Personally not keen suspicious regarding quality of tweeter driver.
However, another intersting nights listening with several friends comparing the Yamaha NS1000 and ABC1.
Overall the ABC1 had great midrange and great presence with a sweet, crisp and clean sounding top end, and that classic feeling of freedom from 'boxiness'. However, it was noted that the yamaha had better harmonics in the lower mid/upper bass regions, giving instruments such as guitars a more realistic tone and tunefulness. Furthermore the Yamaha's did have lightning fast transients (??artificial sounding) and more startling dynamics compared to the ABC1's.
This made me wonder why there were less harmonics coming from the ABC1??? Is this bcause you need an enclosure to resonate, like natural wood instruments do. These resonations then create those harmonics which give the characteristic sounds allotted to instruments and hence the ability to recreate the correct emotional content. So how do you recreat those missing harmonics at those specific frequencies (subjectively evaluated i must add)?? Remember the midrange for vocals was not a culprit here and had that Quad-like sound in the ABC1's - still very very good!
I have read elsewhere that one could create an enclosure below and attached to the bass of the open baffle with its own tuning port to allow for recreation of some of these harmonics without actually enclosing the drivers. Anyone ever tried such a thing???
Traskutis
I have put back the cap for the Beyma Tweeter, no subjective attentuation in db noted when cap is off. Cap on leads to slightly warmer overall tone, but loss of detail and smearing in my set up....... cf cap off!
I have put back the cap for the Beyma Tweeter, no subjective attentuation in db noted when cap is off. Cap on leads to slightly warmer overall tone, but loss of detail and smearing in my set up....... cf cap off!
Do you biamp your speakers or use a Lpad as it seem 107db tweeters won't match well with the 98db from Eminence Beta....
xecluded
No I have not had to biamp at all. There has been no major audible mismatch as yet, I am still trying to get measuring apparatus as I obviously cannot rely on my hearing alone. There are frequency anomalies becoming more obvious to me the longer I listen to it. I have noticed a 'hollowness to the sound, as if the midrange has a suck out at some frequency area, again without mesurements this is not particularly helpful.
Nonetheless, that big huge soundstage and alive dynamic sound is so addictive the yamahas are up for sale!!!
I will be looking into using a second pair of Beymas firing backwards or upwards to give the sound a more dynamic/lively edge, and am going to use damnar coats very little to begin with mind. Damping around the Eminence magnet margin and the chasssis and the back of the speaker board are all due to be experimented with.
Still looking for better sounding full rangers that can be used in an open baffle, where there are clearly very strongly positive comments and universal agreement over, not read about any in this category as yet. My heart would have been set on trying Tone Tubby;'s but the results I have read again are very mixed.
No I have not had to biamp at all. There has been no major audible mismatch as yet, I am still trying to get measuring apparatus as I obviously cannot rely on my hearing alone. There are frequency anomalies becoming more obvious to me the longer I listen to it. I have noticed a 'hollowness to the sound, as if the midrange has a suck out at some frequency area, again without mesurements this is not particularly helpful.
Nonetheless, that big huge soundstage and alive dynamic sound is so addictive the yamahas are up for sale!!!
I will be looking into using a second pair of Beymas firing backwards or upwards to give the sound a more dynamic/lively edge, and am going to use damnar coats very little to begin with mind. Damping around the Eminence magnet margin and the chasssis and the back of the speaker board are all due to be experimented with.
Still looking for better sounding full rangers that can be used in an open baffle, where there are clearly very strongly positive comments and universal agreement over, not read about any in this category as yet. My heart would have been set on trying Tone Tubby;'s but the results I have read again are very mixed.
After reading your post, I put together a similar setup but using 2 Eminence Beta 10 and B&C DE10 with ME10 horn per side. With just a 4.4uf cap as crossover, I can't really listen to it as all i hear is the high from the horns/tweeters. After trying various setting, I used a 5ohm and a 4ohm resistor to lower the gain of the tweeter to about 9db. The loudness level seem to match very well that way. Furthermore, I put in a .6MH inductor in series with the woofers and now i much prefer this setup.
I haven't had the resources like audiojoy to try things like the Avantgardes, or other high-end types, but I guess I always assumed they were the best. But when I got my dipoles going I couldn't help but think 'surely it can't be much better than this?' and I take heart that some agree. Not for sheer output. Not for flatness of response. And not for the 20hz low and the 45 khz high. But for realism and enjoyment, how can you beat OB?
Well, I've said it too soon. I did some more experiment and thought that with just one woofer per side and one single 4.4uf, the sound is more involving, but that just my tin ears.. Even my wife who never really pay attention to these things think the speaker sound better with just one woofer. I will play around with the other woofer using 2.5 way to see how it would turn out.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.