If you go to Linkwitz site, you will find that the arrangement you describe is the basis for the "H" baffle.
I think that LinkWitz comment was it was an inefficient use of 2 drivers.
Cheers;
DougLinkwitz Dipole info
hrm i cant seem to find where he was talking about that...maybe if u could be more specific
and also, are u sure he was also reversed the polarity of one?
and also, are u sure he was also reversed the polarity of one?
DougL, I don't think you looked at his picture.
Shpoop, Wired out of phase you'd have a dual driver sealed sub with an extremely small box. Wired in phase you'd have an isobarik dipole with almost no baffle width and virtually all of the sound would cancel out.
Shpoop, Wired out of phase you'd have a dual driver sealed sub with an extremely small box. Wired in phase you'd have an isobarik dipole with almost no baffle width and virtually all of the sound would cancel out.
Here is the best link on his site
H Dipole Theory
Some more H baffle math here.
Theory "L"
There may be some advantages to what you propose. However, having double the area an an H baffle probably negates it.
Enjoy.
Doug
H Dipole Theory
Some more H baffle math here.
Theory "L"
There may be some advantages to what you propose. However, having double the area an an H baffle probably negates it.
Enjoy.
Doug
C.V. Specs?
Where do you get the specs for the CV15? For the money I'd rather look at Eminence.
Where do you get the specs for the CV15? For the money I'd rather look at Eminence.
Re: PE Buyout 12's?
This thread deserves a bump.
I'm almost finished with my NSB line arrays and the one thing I'm sure of is that there will be no bass. I have a lovely box subwoofer (Adire Audio Rava) that will probably blend nicely but I'm already hooked on the sound of open baffle based on my preliminary single-driver tests while building and assembling the line arrays.
The key feature of these lines is that they are cheap ($0.50/driver for those of you not following the NSB story). I want equally cheap dipole bass (with a decent chance of sounding good). Nobody replied regarding the drivers listed below. Can someone comment (please?) as at least one of them is stall available at PartsExpress for less than $10/driver.
This thread deserves a bump.
I'm almost finished with my NSB line arrays and the one thing I'm sure of is that there will be no bass. I have a lovely box subwoofer (Adire Audio Rava) that will probably blend nicely but I'm already hooked on the sound of open baffle based on my preliminary single-driver tests while building and assembling the line arrays.
The key feature of these lines is that they are cheap ($0.50/driver for those of you not following the NSB story). I want equally cheap dipole bass (with a decent chance of sounding good). Nobody replied regarding the drivers listed below. Can someone comment (please?) as at least one of them is stall available at PartsExpress for less than $10/driver.
MartinQ said:
Number 3 (299-734) due to the shallower mounting depth, so a pair will fit in a 13" wide W baffle. Keep in mind that these won't move enough air to be subs, but they have pretty good efficiency. I would just invest in a pair to start and make sure they sound good, because some cheapie woofers really sound bad. If you are thinking about the investment of 8-10 per side, after shipping, 1 IB 15" per side may be a better choice.
cytokine, after I finally finish my OB NSB arrays I plan on building a set of W baffle dipoles. Seeing as to how the arrays will be completed well under the $100 mark, spending $600 on 4 DPL-12's seems like a ridiculous thing to do.
I spent many hours looking for a suitable 12" sub for under $25 that had the specs I was looking for. Heres what I found.......
MCM 55-1950
T/S Params.....
Fs: 30hz
Re: 8ohm
SPL: 90db 1W/1M
Qes: 0.65
Qms: 6.2
Qts: 0.6
Vas (liters): 130
Xmax: 6.5mm
80w/rms 150w/peak
They won't break any SPL records with only 6.5mm of Xmax, but at under $100 for 4 of them I can't go wrong. I think they will live in great harmony with my NSB arrays 🙂 .
Another alternative is to use small super cheap drivers to handle bass duties as well. Locally I found some 6" drivers for $2/ea that work well for filling in the bass or you could even use your 49cent drivers. You're just going to need to use a lot of them. 32 per side might be enough depending how low and loud you want it to go. There are some special considerations when loading below Fs but it's not too difficult
John;
It looks like the 299-734s are the ones that are still available.
Specs are as follows:
Power handling: 75 watts RMS/125 watts max
*VCdia: 1-1/2"
*L1k: 2.33 mH
*Impedance: 8 ohms
*Re: 6.20 ohms
*Frequency range: 35-1,000 Hz
*Fs: 31 Hz
*SPL: 92 dB 2.83V/1m
*Vas: 6.60 cu. ft.
*Qms: 3.70
*Qes: .68
*Qts: .58
*Xmax: 3.5 mm
The one that really concerns me is the Xmax. It's pretty meager but what I'm thinking about is a pair of dipole subs in the H or W configuration each driven by their own plate amp. Each would have two 8 Ohm drivers. WAF for a bass line array is 0 so that's really not an option although I have great enthusiasm for such a thing.
The 299-734s are $10 each. That fits the description.
454Casull;
What's your point? I've read the thread twice. I know what SL says. I'm asking if anyone has heard these drivers and if they think they might be suitable.
MEXXX;
I would love to see what your lines look like. I am taking pictures all the way along and when I get them processed (yes I'm an analog man with no digital chops) I'll scan them and post them somewhere.
You are my hero for passing on that MCM link. Those look sweet for a pair of two-driver dipole subs. Any idea what they might sound like?
Back to John;
Yeah, I've looked into some ultra-cheap drivers and that's where those PE buyout 12's come in. If you do something like 6's then you're essentially building a three way and I'd rather fob off all of that duty on a sub or a pair of subs. If I were to add 6's or something I would feel compelled to line them and I didn't think of that when I buil the current baffles. They are almost done and the amount of marital capital I had to use to get the time to build them prohibits me from starting over. For now.
I did buy some 4" PVC pipe to try something like Nelson Pass's El-Pipo scheme with a few of the NSBs but I expect they will sound horrhendous below their Fs. I need bigger drivers and to find a way to move lots of air for cheap.
It looks like the 299-734s are the ones that are still available.
Specs are as follows:
Power handling: 75 watts RMS/125 watts max
*VCdia: 1-1/2"
*L1k: 2.33 mH
*Impedance: 8 ohms
*Re: 6.20 ohms
*Frequency range: 35-1,000 Hz
*Fs: 31 Hz
*SPL: 92 dB 2.83V/1m
*Vas: 6.60 cu. ft.
*Qms: 3.70
*Qes: .68
*Qts: .58
*Xmax: 3.5 mm
The one that really concerns me is the Xmax. It's pretty meager but what I'm thinking about is a pair of dipole subs in the H or W configuration each driven by their own plate amp. Each would have two 8 Ohm drivers. WAF for a bass line array is 0 so that's really not an option although I have great enthusiasm for such a thing.
The 299-734s are $10 each. That fits the description.
454Casull;
What's your point? I've read the thread twice. I know what SL says. I'm asking if anyone has heard these drivers and if they think they might be suitable.
MEXXX;
I would love to see what your lines look like. I am taking pictures all the way along and when I get them processed (yes I'm an analog man with no digital chops) I'll scan them and post them somewhere.
You are my hero for passing on that MCM link. Those look sweet for a pair of two-driver dipole subs. Any idea what they might sound like?
Back to John;
Yeah, I've looked into some ultra-cheap drivers and that's where those PE buyout 12's come in. If you do something like 6's then you're essentially building a three way and I'd rather fob off all of that duty on a sub or a pair of subs. If I were to add 6's or something I would feel compelled to line them and I didn't think of that when I buil the current baffles. They are almost done and the amount of marital capital I had to use to get the time to build them prohibits me from starting over. For now.
I did buy some 4" PVC pipe to try something like Nelson Pass's El-Pipo scheme with a few of the NSBs but I expect they will sound horrhendous below their Fs. I need bigger drivers and to find a way to move lots of air for cheap.
Maybe its already been covered but here's a website that compares quite a few drivers for use as dipole woofers. The reference is the displacement from the Peerlees XLS 12" drivers recommended by Linkwitz.
http://home.insightbb.com/~stephenwmoore/Speakers/Phoenix_Update.htm
Just for the record, I own a pair of Linkwitz Orions for my music only system and really love them. I was thinking of building some sealed subs and then I read this thread which reminded me -- why go back to the sealed route when dipole is the most musical bass I've heard? I am thinking of trying the Pyle drivers in an H-frame and matching them with wideband CSS 4.5 in drivers in a sealed configuration for my HT. I'm completely remaking my HT system and the dipolar subs are going to be the foundation.
http://home.insightbb.com/~stephenwmoore/Speakers/Phoenix_Update.htm
Just for the record, I own a pair of Linkwitz Orions for my music only system and really love them. I was thinking of building some sealed subs and then I read this thread which reminded me -- why go back to the sealed route when dipole is the most musical bass I've heard? I am thinking of trying the Pyle drivers in an H-frame and matching them with wideband CSS 4.5 in drivers in a sealed configuration for my HT. I'm completely remaking my HT system and the dipolar subs are going to be the foundation.
454Casull said:
Sorry. I see that now. Your comments were contained within the quote box thus it looked like a direct quote from earlier in the thread with no comment.
I just received four of the pyle PPA-15's and the build quality is definitely not up to the Adire Shiva's for example. The stamped basket seems thinner and much more subject to ringing than the Shivas. I would estimate the ringing frequency of the basket to be around several thousand hertz. I would definitely consider putting on some damping compound on the baskets. They are available for $41.95 dollars apiece and shipping was $17.20 for all four. That was definitely the best deal on shipping I've found. The input terminals are the gold plated binding posts that chops got. I'm not sure why some have solder terminals and others have binding posts.
Here's my source.
http://www.audio-warehouse.com/
One last thing, a relatively inexpensive source of sub amps is on ebay.
These amps were used by Phil Jones of Platinum audio in their subwoofers and are quite beefy. I just received one and hope to get another. If it's good enough for Phil Jones, whose speakers were always known for their quality bass, then its good enough for me🙂 FWIW Platinum audio is deceased and these NOS amps seem like a great buy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5725984975&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
When this link expires, you can look up the seller -- nolson0
Here's my source.
http://www.audio-warehouse.com/
One last thing, a relatively inexpensive source of sub amps is on ebay.
These amps were used by Phil Jones of Platinum audio in their subwoofers and are quite beefy. I just received one and hope to get another. If it's good enough for Phil Jones, whose speakers were always known for their quality bass, then its good enough for me🙂 FWIW Platinum audio is deceased and these NOS amps seem like a great buy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5725984975&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
When this link expires, you can look up the seller -- nolson0
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