Hi Al,
I have been looking for a similar offer for long now and I am glad that I found it with you!
After my very good experience with the Symasym, pls take me down for one set!
At least 1 x DAC board and 4 x I/V board, 1 x controller, 1xUSB and PSUs, I'll be waiting for more detailed info on pricing and details on included parts.
Through-hole parts are to be soldered by us I guess?
Cheers,
Max
I have been looking for a similar offer for long now and I am glad that I found it with you!
After my very good experience with the Symasym, pls take me down for one set!
At least 1 x DAC board and 4 x I/V board, 1 x controller, 1xUSB and PSUs, I'll be waiting for more detailed info on pricing and details on included parts.
Through-hole parts are to be soldered by us I guess?
Cheers,
Max
Last edited:
Hi Max,
Thanks for joining in, and the kind words. The boards will be completely assembled so that I can test them thoroughly before shipping. I would not have it any other way. But honestly, you made me think a bit considering the amount of work involved. Luckily I have a friend nearby that has offered to help with through-hole soldering, testing, and shipping that should make things a bit easier for me. Thanks again. Happy New Year!
Best regards,
Al
Thanks for joining in, and the kind words. The boards will be completely assembled so that I can test them thoroughly before shipping. I would not have it any other way. But honestly, you made me think a bit considering the amount of work involved. Luckily I have a friend nearby that has offered to help with through-hole soldering, testing, and shipping that should make things a bit easier for me. Thanks again. Happy New Year!
Best regards,
Al
AL,
I totally understand you would like to test the boards before shipping them out, troubleshooting DAC boards via mail/ the forum is definitely not something you want to do on a larger scale.
But soldering "non-critical" through-hole parts like caps, the whole PSU, etc. shouldn't be a problem for someone on this forum, is it ?
It's up to you of course!
If I can be of any assistance with soldering (remember I do live in France though) I'd happily do so!
Cheers,
Max
I totally understand you would like to test the boards before shipping them out, troubleshooting DAC boards via mail/ the forum is definitely not something you want to do on a larger scale.
But soldering "non-critical" through-hole parts like caps, the whole PSU, etc. shouldn't be a problem for someone on this forum, is it ?
It's up to you of course!
If I can be of any assistance with soldering (remember I do live in France though) I'd happily do so!
Cheers,
Max
coolnose is right you could maybe solder the ES9018 chip and sell the rest of the board as a kit many people in here can solder smd parts 😉
It will save you a lot of time!!!
It will save you a lot of time!!!
Happy New Year = minimum faults...!
Hi Al,
Just my opinion, but I would advise you to play it safe initially and only sell fully built and tested units as the amount of time / money involved in providing a "fault finding" service (when its not your fault!) via email or phone will at best stress you to hell and back or at worst put you out of business!
Personally I only go for fully built and tested units or pay extra to kits assembled and tested by a local company who have the proper skills and equipment.
DIY and surface mount on a large scale ( you will have a lot of interest if the pricing is below Twisted Pear) = trouble...Many guys think they can hand solder SM parts and happily will try...But they will drain your resources when they make a mistake and cant trace it...
Once you have sold a few hundred assembled and tested units you will be able to afford to take on a part time guy to sort out the inevitable DIY customer services.
Just my 2 cents.
I am genuinely excited about this product and the professional way you have presented and progressed so far...Please look ahead to the big picture, you are on to a winner!!
All the very best for 2014 and thanks in advance of receiving a ( fully built and tested!!) unit.
Cheers
Derek.
Hi Al,
Just my opinion, but I would advise you to play it safe initially and only sell fully built and tested units as the amount of time / money involved in providing a "fault finding" service (when its not your fault!) via email or phone will at best stress you to hell and back or at worst put you out of business!
Personally I only go for fully built and tested units or pay extra to kits assembled and tested by a local company who have the proper skills and equipment.
DIY and surface mount on a large scale ( you will have a lot of interest if the pricing is below Twisted Pear) = trouble...Many guys think they can hand solder SM parts and happily will try...But they will drain your resources when they make a mistake and cant trace it...
Once you have sold a few hundred assembled and tested units you will be able to afford to take on a part time guy to sort out the inevitable DIY customer services.
Just my 2 cents.
I am genuinely excited about this product and the professional way you have presented and progressed so far...Please look ahead to the big picture, you are on to a winner!!
All the very best for 2014 and thanks in advance of receiving a ( fully built and tested!!) unit.
Cheers
Derek.
Yep, I think that's Al's plan - and I think it's a good one. It means more work up front, but will save a ton of time/aggravation in the end.
Thanks Derek, and MisterRogers. You guys are right on. I'm a stickler for detail, unless everything is tested and working to the nth degree I can't feel comfortable releasing it. Of course it means more work up front, but from past experience it's well worth the effort.
A quick update. The new DAC and Amp boards work great. The initial run was well worth it. I'm still working with the PCB assembly house to square away pricing, and working with Front Panel Express for the enclosure. I'm also making some minor improvements to the 2 x USB input board. All and all everything is coming together. The enclosure could delay things a bit for those interested in a custom enclosure but otherwise I'm still on schedule to provide pricing, and start taking orders later this month.
Wishing you all, and all DiyAudio members a Happy New Year!
Best regards,
Al
A quick update. The new DAC and Amp boards work great. The initial run was well worth it. I'm still working with the PCB assembly house to square away pricing, and working with Front Panel Express for the enclosure. I'm also making some minor improvements to the 2 x USB input board. All and all everything is coming together. The enclosure could delay things a bit for those interested in a custom enclosure but otherwise I'm still on schedule to provide pricing, and start taking orders later this month.
Wishing you all, and all DiyAudio members a Happy New Year!
Best regards,
Al
I would think that anything you can do to lower the price - for example, offer the kit in a modular form like Hypex so that the end user can save some money by doing some of the simple assembly themselves: supply and wire their own input/output connectors, supply their own case, etc.-is going to help a lot.
As mentioned, if the kit isn't competitive price-wise with the Twisted Pair buffalo III, I don't think it will do as well as it could...
As mentioned, if the kit isn't competitive price-wise with the Twisted Pair buffalo III, I don't think it will do as well as it could...
Hi Kuribo,
I think most will be very pleased when I release pricing. It will be competitive with TP, and the other kits currently available. But keep in mind you're buying into a platform that was designed to provide all sorts of options, flexibility and scalability built in. Like someone mentioned, it's like having your own DAC Lego set. Like I wrote in my opening post, to me from the start it was all about utilizing everything the ES9018 has to offer, and I think of come very close to that. My mind is exploding with all sorts of new ideas that I can implement using this platform. I hope you see the added value.
Best regards,
Al
I think most will be very pleased when I release pricing. It will be competitive with TP, and the other kits currently available. But keep in mind you're buying into a platform that was designed to provide all sorts of options, flexibility and scalability built in. Like someone mentioned, it's like having your own DAC Lego set. Like I wrote in my opening post, to me from the start it was all about utilizing everything the ES9018 has to offer, and I think of come very close to that. My mind is exploding with all sorts of new ideas that I can implement using this platform. I hope you see the added value.
Best regards,
Al
Hmmm, don't think that it'd necessarily be a 'non starter' if kits cost more than the BIII. As nice is the TP kit is (I've built a bunch of them), Al's design/components offer completeness and flexibility that the TP stuff doesn't. To some, that's worth a lot. Granted - it may not be worth it to a builder simply looking for a stereo DAC, but for others...
Also, if I might suggest... Let's ease up on the 'arm chair' quarterbacking. Al's assuming all the risk, the labor, the cost, the pain (yep, they'll be pain 🙂. His approach may not be yours, but it's reasonable and, well... his.
At the end of the day, he'll release kit for the price it needs to be. I know enough about his efforts to be quite confident that they'll be plenty of buyers.
Edit: Ha! Glad you called out the flexibility you designed into this Al. For me, it's one of the real distinctives.
Also, if I might suggest... Let's ease up on the 'arm chair' quarterbacking. Al's assuming all the risk, the labor, the cost, the pain (yep, they'll be pain 🙂. His approach may not be yours, but it's reasonable and, well... his.
At the end of the day, he'll release kit for the price it needs to be. I know enough about his efforts to be quite confident that they'll be plenty of buyers.
Edit: Ha! Glad you called out the flexibility you designed into this Al. For me, it's one of the real distinctives.
Hi AAK,
Would you be publishing the Schematics of the DAC ? Many of us here might like to have a look at the end to end setup?
Also, I have some concerns about stacking the I/V circuits so close together and to the main DAC boards. I have seen many Reference grade DAC implementation where in they strictly follow Dual-Mono philosophy, keeping the Left-Right analog stages separated from each other and DAC board / power supply with a metal screen between them.
Do you think we can follow this approach with your stackable design ??
Would you be publishing the Schematics of the DAC ? Many of us here might like to have a look at the end to end setup?
Also, I have some concerns about stacking the I/V circuits so close together and to the main DAC boards. I have seen many Reference grade DAC implementation where in they strictly follow Dual-Mono philosophy, keeping the Left-Right analog stages separated from each other and DAC board / power supply with a metal screen between them.
Do you think we can follow this approach with your stackable design ??
Hi ujjwaana,
I am not planning on publishing the DAC schematic anytime soon, but I will have block diagrams and eventually a manual illustrating the different setups, and wiring.
As far as stacking, I’m not concerned about the noise because it’s very low. If anything stacking helps reduce noise by shortening analog signal trace lengths. It’s especially helpful in multichannel configurations. My only concern with stacking initially before completing the prototype was heat, and the spacing required to keep component temperatures at comfortable levels well within the specified safety margins. I found 12mm spacing works well on my prototype. The spacing can be increased up to 15mm if necessary.
As far as using separate Left-Right DAC/IV stacks when operating in dual-mono, the option will be available. But I don’t think it will be necessary. I remember reading somewhere that ESS Tech had confirmed that paralleling 8 DACs/Channel by stacking is just as good performance wise as the separate dual-mono approach. At some point I’d like to verify it. If anybody has any information please jump in. To use the dual-mono separate approach will require an adapter board that will mount to the input board header, and a U.FL adapter for the DAC. For the input adapter each signal whether SPDIF/I2S/DSD will go through a high speed 1-to-2 buffer, and then fanned-out to each DAC using coaxial U.FL connectors. The master clock is also buffered and sent to each DAC.
I hope the information helps.
Best regards,
Al
I am not planning on publishing the DAC schematic anytime soon, but I will have block diagrams and eventually a manual illustrating the different setups, and wiring.
As far as stacking, I’m not concerned about the noise because it’s very low. If anything stacking helps reduce noise by shortening analog signal trace lengths. It’s especially helpful in multichannel configurations. My only concern with stacking initially before completing the prototype was heat, and the spacing required to keep component temperatures at comfortable levels well within the specified safety margins. I found 12mm spacing works well on my prototype. The spacing can be increased up to 15mm if necessary.
As far as using separate Left-Right DAC/IV stacks when operating in dual-mono, the option will be available. But I don’t think it will be necessary. I remember reading somewhere that ESS Tech had confirmed that paralleling 8 DACs/Channel by stacking is just as good performance wise as the separate dual-mono approach. At some point I’d like to verify it. If anybody has any information please jump in. To use the dual-mono separate approach will require an adapter board that will mount to the input board header, and a U.FL adapter for the DAC. For the input adapter each signal whether SPDIF/I2S/DSD will go through a high speed 1-to-2 buffer, and then fanned-out to each DAC using coaxial U.FL connectors. The master clock is also buffered and sent to each DAC.
I hope the information helps.
Best regards,
Al
Last edited:
Hi Al,
... what you are doing looks interesting to me - seems you've done quite some work with the DAC and ancillaries ;-)
My reason for posting now is to ask if the controller you have made (incl. the software part) will be able to playback PCM*fs32 (1.411 MHz & 1.536 MHz) "raw" signals (not oversampled) as well as DSD512 signals? To my knowledge the ES9018 is capable of this when disabling the oversampling filters but I reckon it needs a certain setup in the DAC programming ...?
Cheers,
Jesper
... what you are doing looks interesting to me - seems you've done quite some work with the DAC and ancillaries ;-)
My reason for posting now is to ask if the controller you have made (incl. the software part) will be able to playback PCM*fs32 (1.411 MHz & 1.536 MHz) "raw" signals (not oversampled) as well as DSD512 signals? To my knowledge the ES9018 is capable of this when disabling the oversampling filters but I reckon it needs a certain setup in the DAC programming ...?
Cheers,
Jesper
Hi Jesper,
The controller supports all ES9018 audio formats, and controls the switching between the different formats. In all the controller provides access to 31 functions and each of their settings. All the programming necessary to support SPDIF/PCM/DSD is included. Thanks for the interest.
Best regards,
Al
The controller supports all ES9018 audio formats, and controls the switching between the different formats. In all the controller provides access to 31 functions and each of their settings. All the programming necessary to support SPDIF/PCM/DSD is included. Thanks for the interest.
Best regards,
Al
Last edited:
Only just come across this thread, very interesting project this one, one I'm sure you could make into a fairly successful business🙂
- Status
- Not open for further replies.