My DIY Horn setup

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#182
Scott L said:
No, that is not the only open baffle bass that I have heard. I have also auditioned a couple of single 15's; each one a slightly different style from a different builder. Add to the list: 4 x 10 inch line arrays, 3 x8 inch in a quasi- full range attempt, and 6 per side 8 inch.

In all auditions, except the first one listed in my previous post, the system owner thought it was just wonderful. I respectfully disagreed. In all but one case we are still friends, simply coming to the understanding that we all hear things differently. In the one case, the system builder has cut off absolutely all ties of friendship and communication with me. It must be he is simply SO ANGRY that I did not find his attempt at bass reproduction to my liking.
And said person is a phD. Go figure.

p.s. Many of my associates in audio still maintain that I have not given "OB" a fair chance. So, my question is, just where do I listen to a good one ?
Click to expand...

So to summarize:

You conclude that my room is abnormally sensitive to bass, and that capacity and weight in the lower region of bass reproduction is not very good in my system or the other ones I have mentioned and pictured.

You base that conclusion on a system you have heard that has 3.5 times less cone areal, in what seems to be a less than optimal setup, with low cost budget woofers.

You continue with your "knowledge", based on single 15" woofers in a baffle. One eight of the capacity.....

Like I said earlier in this thread: I too hear bad reproduction of bass from open baffles when they are under dimensioned and\or based on high Q, long throw woofers.
I will give you this, if I had your (limited) experience with OB's I would be sceptical as well.

Let me clarify a few things:

My room has suckouts in the bass region like most other rooms. I cope with these with a big bass system with plenty headroom and DSP.

In the three systems I have played with that has the OBs based on 5pcs of the 15" woofer, system capacity is down to 30-40Hz. This will be enough or too little depending on the user. I would strongly suggest building a prototype baffle to test the room response before going all the way. In the system that produces 30Hz, the efficiency is extreme. I have never seen more than 30W going into the bass section even at extreme levels.

I get visits from a wide variety of DIY and Hifi enthusiasts. Even people that has 8pcs of 12" high end woofers in closed boxes or 6pcs of 15" woofers in vented enclosures. I have never had any complaints about the capacity or reproduction of bass. Yes, they might like their own system for being able to shake the house at 15Hz, but that's another ballgame.

Scott, if you lose friendships over discussing preferences or technical matters, I might suggest that it is not your message there is something wrong with, but how you present it.... The condescending tone when saying something in the effect of "well then, if you like it, well it must be good enough for you" is not very flattering. About as flattering as the bass from a single, sloppy 10" in boring enclosure.....😉
 
#184
PMA! said:
So to summarize:

You conclude that my room is abnormally sensitive to bass, and that capacity and weight in the lower region of bass reproduction is not very good in my system or the other ones I have mentioned and pictured.

You base that conclusion on a system you have heard that has 3.5 times less cone areal, in what seems to be a less than optimal setup, with low cost budget woofers.

You continue with your "knowledge", based on single 15" woofers in a baffle. One eight of the capacity.....

Like I said earlier in this thread: I too hear bad reproduction of bass from open baffles when they are under dimensioned and\or based on high Q, long throw woofers.
I will give you this, if I had your (limited) experience with OB's I would be sceptical as well.

Let me clarify a few things:

My room has suckouts in the bass region like most other rooms. I cope with these with a big bass system with plenty headroom and DSP.

In the three systems I have played with that has the OBs based on 5pcs of the 15" woofer, system capacity is down to 30-40Hz. This will be enough or too little depending on the user. I would strongly suggest building a prototype baffle to test the room response before going all the way. In the system that produces 30Hz, the efficiency is extreme. I have never seen more than 30W going into the bass section even at extreme levels.

I get visits from a wide variety of DIY and Hifi enthusiasts. Even people that has 8pcs of 12" high end woofers in closed boxes or 6pcs of 15" woofers in vented enclosures. I have never had any complaints about the capacity or reproduction of bass. Yes, they might like their own system for being able to shake the house at 15Hz, but that's another ballgame.

Scott, if you lose friendships over discussing preferences or technical matters, I might suggest that it is not your message there is something wrong with, but how you present it.... The condescending tone when saying something in the effect of "well then, if you like it, well it must be good enough for you" is not very flattering. About as flattering as the bass from a single, sloppy 10" in boring enclosure.....😉
Click to expand...

Except, I never said that. I have arrived at the conclusion that we all hear things differently, and listen for different things. I have friends that aren't the least bit interested in deep-bass response at all. I have friends that are all about imaging/soundstaging. And one of my VERY best friends is a pure open baffle enthusiast. He makes fun of my horn system all the time.
 
#192
Maybe I am mistaken, he sold his array... We'll hear about it soon I guess 🙂

My setup is as follows from top to bottom:

Fostex t500amkII
cf 1400hz round JMLC with Radian 475be
cf 200hz round Tractrix with Radian 850
cf 110hz round tractrix with modified Supravox 285-2000 with reactance annuling back chamber
Dual Tad 1601b bass reflex 200L boxes
20hz volvotreter tapped horn with Eminence 4015lf
 
#193
kodomo said:
Maybe I am mistaken, he sold his array... We'll hear about it soon I guess 🙂

My setup is as follows from top to bottom:

Fostex t500amkII
cf 1400hz round JMLC with Radian 475be
cf 200hz round Tractrix with Radian 850
cf 110hz round tractrix with modified Supravox 285-2000 with reactance annuling back chamber
Dual Tad 1601b bass reflex 200L boxes
20hz volvotreter tapped horn with Eminence 4015lf
Click to expand...

Forgive me, but that seems overly complicated. In my experience, anything greater than a 4 way and you are really into diminishing/or/ negative returns.
The TAD 1601 drivers are quite impressive, though !!
 
#194
I do not want to hijack his thread, so pm me if you want to talk about my project...

When I designed theses speakers I also designed the space they will be in. I have not built that space yet, still they sound terrific! I had the chance to have own very nice systems and also had the pleasure of listening to many high end and also good diy systems. I rank mine amongst the best ones I heard. It is great and relieving after all the work me and people who helped me has put into it 🙂 The final help and the most important help came from hornfabrik in Germany. Their crossover solution elevated the speakers up a few notches.

These speakers may have been complicated to build, but properly positioned in room and on the right listening spot, they disappear completely. Everything plays with ease too. The first speakers I am satisfied on classical music... If people are only into jazz trios or female vocalists or audiophile recordings this would be a total overkill! or for people who are married 😛
 

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#195
kodomo said:
I do not want to hijack his thread, so pm me if you want to talk about my project...

When I designed theses speakers I also designed the space they will be in. I have not built that space yet, still they sound terrific! I had the chance to have own very nice systems and also had the pleasure of listening to many high end and also good diy systems. I rank mine amongst the best ones I heard. It is great and relieving after all the work me and people who helped me has put into it 🙂 The final help and the most important help came from hornfabrik in Germany. Their crossover solution elevated the speakers up a few notches.

These speakers may have been complicated to build, but properly positioned in room and on the right listening spot, they disappear completely. Everything plays with ease too. The first speakers I am satisfied on classical music... If people are only into jazz trios or female vocalists or audiophile recordings this would be a total overkill! or for people who are married 😛
Click to expand...

Well, Sir, that is quite impressive, and it does look like it lives up to your observations. So, like I said before: Please forgive me. I am in a similar situation, in that it has taken me quite a few years to get where I am at, and also in a devoted room, but yours ranks considerably higher when it comes to aesthetics. This thread is called "My DIY Horn setup" so perhaps not very far off topic !
 

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#196
The assumptions continue! 😀

I have not sold the SLOBS. In my existing room I can't think of anything better. I am helping a friend design and produce an extreme basshorn solution for his stereo. 140dB @ 15Hz at Xmax! In the future room I have just started planning (a year or two+ in the future) they will be considered as a trade-in for the SLOBS. I will not trade SLOBS until I have measured, tuned and heard a bass solution that surpasses them in overall sound quality...luckily I will have first-hand experience with them when the time comes. They are HUGE, haha.

Thanks for sharing pictures, setups look very cool!
 
#200
PMA! said:
The assumptions continue! 😀

I have not sold the SLOBS. In my existing room I can't think of anything better. I am helping a friend design and produce an extreme basshorn solution for his stereo. 140dB @ 15Hz at Xmax! In the future room I have just started planning (a year or two+ in the future) they will be considered as a trade-in for the SLOBS. I will not trade SLOBS until I have measured, tuned and heard a bass solution that surpasses them in overall sound quality...luckily I will have first-hand experience with them when the time comes. They are HUGE, haha.

Thanks for sharing pictures, setups look very cool!
Click to expand...

Hello PMA.

Your work is inspiring. I am working through my midrange horn design, but can't help wander about thinking of possible midbass horn and low bass options.

Would you mind sharing a bit more about your slot loaded open baffles? I've been unable to find the driver model you are using, but know you use 8 per side from 20 to 130 Hz and xo at 24 dB/octave. They seem to be 12".

Nelson Pass used 6 drivers per side and 8" drivers for the SLOT he presented on the article at Enjoy the Music.

How did you arrive at the need of 8 drivers per side and the specific drivers you use? I'm trying to get a big picture idea of what would be a suitable SLOT design for my living room, and understand it that is something I could get away with.

Thank you!
 
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