Nice work
I have not seen this thread until now, I'll join those who have already commented positively on the innovative thinking and very nice workmanship.
Very impressive, I hope you can work out the remaining issues.
I have not seen this thread until now, I'll join those who have already commented positively on the innovative thinking and very nice workmanship.
Very impressive, I hope you can work out the remaining issues.
Hello reneb
Thank you for your positive comments.
My original 1980s tonearm, employed TTL logic circuits for the servo control. I understand that much better than micro controllers. I could use TTL logic control for my present tonearm but I would like to use a more modern approach if possible.
My dream is to finish the tonearm by the end of 2013 and get some manufacturer of Hi-Fi components to demonstate it at the 2014 CES in Las Vegas.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Thank you for your positive comments.
My original 1980s tonearm, employed TTL logic circuits for the servo control. I understand that much better than micro controllers. I could use TTL logic control for my present tonearm but I would like to use a more modern approach if possible.
My dream is to finish the tonearm by the end of 2013 and get some manufacturer of Hi-Fi components to demonstate it at the 2014 CES in Las Vegas.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Thank you for bringing your tonearm to the attention of the diyAudio community. To me Hi Fi and the diy community are all about sharing and sharing
ideas. Projects that advance the state of the art are welcome. Even if they
do not they are welcome!
Suggestions: On technical issues ask for help here. Name that tonearm. When
your tonearm is finally completed have somebody competent review it. Consider the following places to feature the review. diyAudio, AudioCircle, Audio Asylum, Vinyl Engine, AudioKarma, 6 moons, Positive-feedback, Enjoy the Music,
Audiogon, TNT-Audio and many more. Please share your tonearm whatever you
call it with the world.
ideas. Projects that advance the state of the art are welcome. Even if they
do not they are welcome!
Suggestions: On technical issues ask for help here. Name that tonearm. When
your tonearm is finally completed have somebody competent review it. Consider the following places to feature the review. diyAudio, AudioCircle, Audio Asylum, Vinyl Engine, AudioKarma, 6 moons, Positive-feedback, Enjoy the Music,
Audiogon, TNT-Audio and many more. Please share your tonearm whatever you
call it with the world.
Maybe an idea.
You can mesure de rotating angle of the arm, the length of the wand is an exact function of that angle.
Am I wrong ?
You can mesure de rotating angle of the arm, the length of the wand is an exact function of that angle.
Am I wrong ?
Hello Arch Stanton
No, you are not wrong.
Measuring the rotation of the tonearm could be done with an encoder.
There are several ways to construct a servo. The one I have chosen utilizes a Hall Effect sensor and a rare earth magnet. That worked well for me in the 1980s version of my tonearm. I am currently looking at designing the servo using a micro controller. I am thinking of learning to program micro controllers. There is a lot of online help available.
Sincerely,
Ralf
No, you are not wrong.
Measuring the rotation of the tonearm could be done with an encoder.
There are several ways to construct a servo. The one I have chosen utilizes a Hall Effect sensor and a rare earth magnet. That worked well for me in the 1980s version of my tonearm. I am currently looking at designing the servo using a micro controller. I am thinking of learning to program micro controllers. There is a lot of online help available.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hi I only recently found your thread - your Ideas are interesting and well presented - and I must join with others in saying you have designed a BEAUTIFUL Tonearm !!!
I hope things are going well ,and that you are able to find backers or someone who will produce it !
I am looking forward to it's success -
Sincerely,
Dean
I hope things are going well ,and that you are able to find backers or someone who will produce it !
I am looking forward to it's success -
Sincerely,
Dean
For hallcon83
Hello Dean,
Attached, please find a drawing of the angular relationships you requested.
For the vertical angle of lift, in my own tone arm, Iuse 1.39° which represents a height of .200” at a tone arm length of 8.250”. I would not make it less than that but I have seen as much as .500”
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hello Dean,
Attached, please find a drawing of the angular relationships you requested.
For the vertical angle of lift, in my own tone arm, Iuse 1.39° which represents a height of .200” at a tone arm length of 8.250”. I would not make it less than that but I have seen as much as .500”
Sincerely,
Ralf
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Hi Ralf - Thank you for the information - so if a newbie is looking at this right a maximum of about 36 degrees of horizontal movement should be safe ..... - Thank You for your help!
Sincerely,
Dean
Sincerely,
Dean
Hello Dean
That's correct. That angle is based on the effective length of the SME 2009 series 1 tone arm which I got from www.vinylengine.com
If the effective length of your tone arm is considerably shorter or longer, then that angle would increase or decrease respectively. But not much.
Sincerely,
Ralf
That's correct. That angle is based on the effective length of the SME 2009 series 1 tone arm which I got from www.vinylengine.com
If the effective length of your tone arm is considerably shorter or longer, then that angle would increase or decrease respectively. But not much.
Sincerely,
Ralf
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I haven't gone though the entire thread, but think it could be valuable to produce a video showing the arm in action using time lapse.
An incredible project, bravo.
An incredible project, bravo.
Hello kach22i
In case you will not be able to read the entire thread; in the early eighties I designed and built a tangentially tracking servo controlled tone arm which functioned correctly. Being servo controlled, it was accurate to ± 0.1°.
It was always my dream to design a tone arm that functioned without a servo, and so in 2010 I designed a new version of my tone arm which was driven by the frictional drag force of the rotating LP. It worked, but was not accurate.
In 2012 I decided to add an electronic servo to my tone arm and I built two prototypes. In the process I made what I believe to be a revolutionary invention which allows 100% accurate tangential tracking. The fact that it is an invention, prevents me from doing what you are suggesting: make a video and put it on U-Tube. Applying for a patent is out of the question at the moment and so I will have to keep it to myself for the time being.
I don’t have a design for the electronic servo as of yet and I play LPs by nudging the tone arm’s carriage along with my finger. That allows me to sit down and listen for about 30 seconds before I have to get up and correct the carriage position. However, the tone arm never goes out of tangency!
The following is a quote from Mr. Conrad Hoffman whom I met on DIY Audio:
“ IMO, the big gain is actually not the elimination of tracking error, though that's what everybody thinks. The real gain is eliminating cartridge offset/angle and thus the battle of dynamic forces that occurs on the cantilever”
Sincerely,
Ralf
In case you will not be able to read the entire thread; in the early eighties I designed and built a tangentially tracking servo controlled tone arm which functioned correctly. Being servo controlled, it was accurate to ± 0.1°.
It was always my dream to design a tone arm that functioned without a servo, and so in 2010 I designed a new version of my tone arm which was driven by the frictional drag force of the rotating LP. It worked, but was not accurate.
In 2012 I decided to add an electronic servo to my tone arm and I built two prototypes. In the process I made what I believe to be a revolutionary invention which allows 100% accurate tangential tracking. The fact that it is an invention, prevents me from doing what you are suggesting: make a video and put it on U-Tube. Applying for a patent is out of the question at the moment and so I will have to keep it to myself for the time being.
I don’t have a design for the electronic servo as of yet and I play LPs by nudging the tone arm’s carriage along with my finger. That allows me to sit down and listen for about 30 seconds before I have to get up and correct the carriage position. However, the tone arm never goes out of tangency!
The following is a quote from Mr. Conrad Hoffman whom I met on DIY Audio:
“ IMO, the big gain is actually not the elimination of tracking error, though that's what everybody thinks. The real gain is eliminating cartridge offset/angle and thus the battle of dynamic forces that occurs on the cantilever”
Sincerely,
Ralf
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I understand - at least a little bit.
I'm under the impression that a US Patent costs at least $30,000 in lawyer fees, and an International Patent runs about $300,000. In the end, all it gives you is the right to sue people, a drawn out and expensive venture which causes many small companies to go under.
On top of it all, the places most likely to copy (China) will not respect Patents.
Hello kach22i
I should elaborate on the patent situation.
Under US patent law you have a grace period of one year from the date of making your invention "public" before you have to apply for patent. Under european patent law, you loose your right to apply for patent immediately upon making the invention "public". Putting the invention on U-Tube or into DIYAUDIO, is considered making the invention "public".
I patented my first tonearm by prosecuting the patent application myself.
I could do that again but would have to restudy the patent laws because they have changed considerably since the eighties.
There is an advantage to making an invention "public" and that is, that it prevents everyone else from patenting the invention in their name.
You are absolutely right when you say that owning a patent only gives you the right to sue.
Your reply helped me in making up my mind as to what to do next.
It will take until the end of 2013 to finish the servo design and then the tone arm will be ready to produce. At that point I will custom make it myself or license it to an established manufacturer. So, if the tone arm is available for sale at the same time it is made "public", I may not matter whether it is patented or not.
Of course there is the possibility that the day I announce the tone arm to be available for sale, will be declared "National HO-HUM Day" in the US. 🙂
Sincerely,
Ralf
I should elaborate on the patent situation.
Under US patent law you have a grace period of one year from the date of making your invention "public" before you have to apply for patent. Under european patent law, you loose your right to apply for patent immediately upon making the invention "public". Putting the invention on U-Tube or into DIYAUDIO, is considered making the invention "public".
I patented my first tonearm by prosecuting the patent application myself.
I could do that again but would have to restudy the patent laws because they have changed considerably since the eighties.
There is an advantage to making an invention "public" and that is, that it prevents everyone else from patenting the invention in their name.
You are absolutely right when you say that owning a patent only gives you the right to sue.
Your reply helped me in making up my mind as to what to do next.
It will take until the end of 2013 to finish the servo design and then the tone arm will be ready to produce. At that point I will custom make it myself or license it to an established manufacturer. So, if the tone arm is available for sale at the same time it is made "public", I may not matter whether it is patented or not.
Of course there is the possibility that the day I announce the tone arm to be available for sale, will be declared "National HO-HUM Day" in the US. 🙂
Sincerely,
Ralf
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Just looking at the picture and drawing one thought comes to mind.
Over engineered!
Look at all those pivot points which WILL either bind or rattle (to some degree)
I can not believe that the improvement in tracking angle would compensate for the deteriation caused by miss-behaving bearings.
I.M.H.O. 😱
Over engineered!
Look at all those pivot points which WILL either bind or rattle (to some degree)
I can not believe that the improvement in tracking angle would compensate for the deteriation caused by miss-behaving bearings.
I.M.H.O. 😱
Quote"The real gain is eliminating cartridge offset/angle and thus the battle of dynamic forces that occurs on the cantilever”
Always felt the importance of this, principally after listening to the B&O parallel tracking tonearms.
Always felt the importance of this, principally after listening to the B&O parallel tracking tonearms.
That is amazingly beautiful tonearm.
(Noob Alert) Some modern desktop scanners have resolution of 4800 dpi. Which may mean motor inside travels at that precision. Teethed belt and stepper motors are used. I wonder if it can be used for linear tone arm ?
Regards.
(Noob Alert) Some modern desktop scanners have resolution of 4800 dpi. Which may mean motor inside travels at that precision. Teethed belt and stepper motors are used. I wonder if it can be used for linear tone arm ?
Regards.
gninnam
I still don't have an electronic servo design for it. It is simply beyond my capabilities.
In 2014 I designed and built an updated version of my tonearm which I finished last week and tested today 3-15-2015. Because of a significant change in the new design, it occurred to me early in the design phase that this new model may just function without the servo. That thought turned out to be correct today, when I played several LPs without a servo at absolutely ZERO tracking error.
I am thinking of posting a partial picture of my new design in the next few days for a general idea of what it looks like.
Sincerely,
Ralf
I still don't have an electronic servo design for it. It is simply beyond my capabilities.
In 2014 I designed and built an updated version of my tonearm which I finished last week and tested today 3-15-2015. Because of a significant change in the new design, it occurred to me early in the design phase that this new model may just function without the servo. That thought turned out to be correct today, when I played several LPs without a servo at absolutely ZERO tracking error.
I am thinking of posting a partial picture of my new design in the next few days for a general idea of what it looks like.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Cheers Ralf and sorry that you came to a halt with the original design but if your new design works then kudos to you 😎 (looking forward to the pictures)
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