Multi Entry Horn ElectroVoice HP6040

[mark100]

<snip> ...... do you think, that 4 drivers are not enough for home use and 100Hz?

For me, even just for home, not enough to do 100Hz.

Pison calc says four 4" make 105dB @1m with 3.07mm excursion, without any horn gain.
Even adding in a likely 3 dB horn gain, that's weak for max SPL in my book.
Cause I view the 105-108 dB as peak, which brings average SPL down to around 90 dB @ 1m meter. Getting lame imo.

Personally, I think the 4ndf34s are meant to run from 300Hz up, with 200Hz my lowest drop dead corner.

 

[mark100]

Yes i have both here. 2.4 seams right. i can get the right datasheet if you like.
The 8 Ohm Variant has an xvar of 5.7 and that controlled. The 16 ohm xvar of 3mm

but you can also calculate xmax from winding and magnet gab

i think looking at half the xvar 6 db less is possible

Thank you. Yes, I'd love to see a correct data sheet.

 

[chriss0212]

Thank you. Yes, I'd love to see a correct data sheet.

Me too 😉

 

[chriss0212]

I changed the order to 8 Ohm... hope they will accept it... but because i ordered on saturday night, they are not on its way...

 

[chriss0212]

OK... Order can't be modified, but they have canceled the order 😉
Do you know a better driver for my Plan?

Should work from ~100Hz - 600Hz and should be as small as possible to make sure, that i can work with small port sizes.

What do you think about this one:

Beyma 5P200FE
https://www.beyma.com/en/products/c/low-mid-frequency/105P2FE8/altavoz-5p200fe-8-oh/

If you think the 4NDF34-8 is best for the plan... please let me know!

Thanks' a lot!

 

[JosefKn]

The Beyma is a nice Driver. And is working great in a Meh. I build one with that 🙂
Maybe the better choice for your Goal.
I run them from 70hz upwards

 

[chriss0212]

Great! Thanks!

Now its just the question: 8ohm or 16 ohm 😉

 

[chriss0212]

Work in progress 😉

 

[chriss0212]

Ahhhhh… Beyma is not on stock ;(

Any other idea? Because tlhp already have my money, it wold be fine, if they would have it on stock 😉

 

[chriss0212]

A question which comes up:
The MidBass drivers will be almost parallel face to face to each other, because the HP6040 horn walls are almost parallel to each other… could this be a problem? Or is everything fine in the frequency range, because wavelength is already relatively long?

Thanks

Christian

 

[chriss0212]

Found another driver which could fit:
FaitalPro 5PR160
https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=101010110

THIELE AND SMALL PARAMETERS

Fs​	90 Hz​
Re​	6.1 Ohm​
Qes​	0.33​
Qms​	4.4​
Qts​	0.31​
Vas​	3.7 dm^3 (0.13 ft^3)​
Sd​	85.2 cm^2 (13.21 in^2)​
Xmax (4)​	5.10 mm​
Xdamage (5)​	16.85 mm​
Mms​	8.5 g​
Bl​	9.6 N/A​
Le​	0.3 mH​
Mmd​	7.6 g​
Cms​	0.37 mm/N​
Rms​	1.1 kg/s​
Eta Zero​	0.83 %​
EBP​	273 Hz​

Bam... ordered 😉

 

[JosefKn]

My mids are placed the same and they are working perfect to 2 khz.

The faital, i think will work too, but i don't know it.

 

[chriss0212]

Perfect! Thx a lot...

... and i am sure, that i saw this picture somewhere before... looks pretty unique 😉
... and i can see dats for TSP measuring 😉

 

[JosefKn]

Wow i made that picture today 🙂
But yeah maybe you saw a picture of the complete speaker at facebook.

Dats is a good tool i love that, sometime you have to proof some theorys and with dats it`s super easy.
impedance sweap is your best friend 😀

But now i don´t want to spam your thread.
Happy Building😀

 

[kipman725]

I was referring to the modification of the horn with a circular saw. I think its a great idea though, although I am curious how you will join your new throat to the horn. The holes should as pelanj says be larger. The holes should be positioned where the local flare rate is correct (plot flare rate with respect to axial distance for your horn):

looking further, one finds that a horn has a low
frequency cutoff defined by the flare rate of the horn, for
example the classic exponential horn may double its area,
e.g., every 24 inches for a 30 Hz flare and every 2.4 inches
for a 300 Hz flare and so on.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/2b/ea/83/05d1f47f214655/US6411718.pdf

there is also an effect where the sound reflects from the throat and destructivly superpositions limiting the HF output of the 12". However I have seen some data recently here that seems to contridict that theory :/ in general you only want them to be as close to the throat as is required for your target HF corner frequency.

 

[chriss0212]

Hi Kipman

I was referring to the modification of the horn with a circular saw. I think its a great idea though, although I am curious how you will join your new throat to the horn

Thx!! joining: epoxy is my friend 😉

The holes should be positioned where the local flare rate is correct (plot flare rate with respect to axial distance for your horn):

To be honest: don't get what you mean. Maybe you can explain it a little bit?

there is also an effect where the sound reflects from the throat and destructivly superpositions limiting the HF output of the 12"

12" is already history 😉
New plan ist Faital Pro 5PR160 and already arrived 😉

in general you only want them to be as close to the throat as is required for your target HF corner frequency.

My plan for crossover is 500Hz. Wavelengh is ~68cm so max distance from diaphragm to the endpoint of the hole is ~17cm correct? Thats where the ports are at the moment... is my idea wrong at this point?

Thx

Christian

 

[kipman725]

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ion-with-a-2-way.334757/page-399#post-6792902
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-mid-in-unity-horn.88237/page-36#post-3450713
locating the midrange taps too close to the throat results in a high local flare rate with limits the low frequency performance of the mids. Your 17cm tap position should work fine as long as your incorporating the mid notch into your crossover.

 

[hornsteff]

Hi

The reflection-point for the 1/4WL-frequency is not necessarily at the diaphragm of the compression-driver! It can be further out and needs to be found experimentally I think.

I would make a flange on the horn and be able to work with replaceable "first-horn-section-parts" to be able to experiment! Have to go now.

Have to go now.

Steffen

 

[chriss0212]

Hi Steffen

Yes… could be!

I could roughly cnc some different Horn Throughts to check this out.

I think, I need the original Compression driver mounted correct?

Christian

 

[kipman725]

You also need to short the terminals of drivers your not measuring.