There are lots more complicated issues than you can imagine. I look at not just amplifier, but from a systems integration point of view. What matters is the final system. I am sure there are going to be some good qualities, but from my own research, there are also issues that I expect during listening. The good qualities and the why is what I am focusing on.
@soongsc
You mast separate subjective judgment (listening) versus objective (measurements).
Someone likes brunettes, someone blondes girls etc, and same things is with perception of sound coming from some audio system. It is useless to talk about that …
When we talk about objective judgment, Modulus-86 tends to have very low distortion, meaning pure and clean sound coming out of it. It is a "amplifier" not "modifier"
It is interesting that someone do not likes such "clean" sound mostly people who likes sound of (I will not say Tube-amp because electronic tubes do not have anything with it) "transformer" based amplifiers.
I'm talking about this as have similar comments from other users for BatoMM amplifier.
You mast separate subjective judgment (listening) versus objective (measurements).
Someone likes brunettes, someone blondes girls etc, and same things is with perception of sound coming from some audio system. It is useless to talk about that …
When we talk about objective judgment, Modulus-86 tends to have very low distortion, meaning pure and clean sound coming out of it. It is a "amplifier" not "modifier"
It is interesting that someone do not likes such "clean" sound mostly people who likes sound of (I will not say Tube-amp because electronic tubes do not have anything with it) "transformer" based amplifiers.
I'm talking about this as have similar comments from other users for BatoMM amplifier.
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Distortion levels have nothing to do with whether the sound is clean or not. When I say clean, it means that timbre decays naturally. There are ways to determine if system decay is natural or not, and distortion measurements is not one of them. Generally listening tests are the first line of problem detection. All the test methods help allocate the source of a problem. It is impossible to explain how you distinguish this through listening. I learned sitting side by side with reviewers. When I understood what they heard, then it was back to the lab and desks to technically locate the source of a problem.@soongsc
You mast separate subjective judgment (listening) versus objective (measurements).
Someone likes brunettes, someone blondes girls etc, and same things is with perception of sound coming from some audio system. It is useless to talk about that …
When we talk about objective judgment, Modulus-86 tends to have very low distortion, meaning pure and clean sound coming out of it. It is a "amplifier" not "modifier"
It is interesting that someone do not likes such "clean" sound mostly people who likes sound of (I will not say Tube-amp because electronic tubes do not have anything with it) "transformer" based amplifiers.
I'm talking about this as have similar comments from other users for BatoMM amplifier.
To me, the end system result is what I am looking to perfect, if I have to use a modifier, then I use it. Like designing a car or aircraft, if the driver or pilot does not like it, it is useless.
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Member
Joined 2006
Looking forward to the comparison report with your Myrefs soongsc.
Have been thinking of building several composite amps, including this one which should be interesting sonics wise: Got all the parts except time to build them.
Amplified triode
Would like to compare them to the tpa3118 amps geting from gmarsh as well....
Have been thinking of building several composite amps, including this one which should be interesting sonics wise: Got all the parts except time to build them.
Amplified triode
Would like to compare them to the tpa3118 amps geting from gmarsh as well....
I learned a lot from the MyRef. One thing I can say is increasing the current gain of the current pump does make the sound cleaner and more natural. But the voltage feedback limits the current into the impedance peaks of a speaker pretty much the same way a voltage speaker does, I think the thread talks a lot about it's design objectives which is different from the Modulus 86. I have a solution for improving current drive, but I am also interested in the low distortion aspects of this amp. Hopefully I hear and learn something new.
Not much to improve in the numbers or in the subjective transparency? I agree tweaking can easily degrade both the numbers and the experience when the tweaker has no rationale for what he or she is attempting to fix up.
That's complete bogus. THD and IMD are strongly correlated with sound quality, including those you mention. The power response (SPL vs freq vs power) is another indicator that correlates with timbre, sound stage, and the like.
It's pretty clear from Harman Kardon's research that good sound quality and good measurements are correlated. And by "research" I mean actual research. You know... A controlled trial with blind testing and a statistically significant number of test subjects. In some cases over 250 test subjects were used. That's research. What most of us in the DIY world, myself included, do is to get a couple of friends together in a room for a sighted trial while agreeing to not be biased (both by our own preconceived notions and by each other). While that may provide some entertainment, it is rather naive to expect any useful data to come from such an "experiment".
Human perception is incredibly inaccurate and easily affected by many things. If you believe otherwise, I strongly suggest that you open a psychology book and read a bit about human cognition.
SY's article in Linear Audio (available for free here: http://linearaudionet.solide-ict.nl/sites/linearaudio.net/files/LA Vol 2 Yaniger(1).pdf) on audio testing is quite informative. In particular, I enjoyed how he'd subconsciously trained his wife to provide positive feedback whenever he changed something in his audio system.
Also, as I've linked to many times now, Michael Shermer's TED talk on cognitive biases, "Why People Believe in Strange Things", is interesting as well. To skip to the auditory illusion, start the video at 8:00. (13-minute video).
Of course, none of that addresses the fundamental question of, "0.00014 % THD .... That's nice, but can I dance to it?" That depends on your personal preferences. If you expect a certain sonic signature, you'll probably be in for a let-down with the Modulus-86. However, if you expect an acoustically transparent amplifier that just sits back and lets you enjoy the music, you've come to the right place. The Modulus-86 does just that. It is by far the best amplifier I have ever designed - both in terms of measured performance and perceived sound quality (recall, they're correlated...)
Just received word from DHL that the next batch of 100 boards are on their way to my front door.
~Tom
Or to paraphase the Late J Gordon Holt ' Neutrality: The thing everyone says they want until they get it'.
If people want to adjust to taste that's all good in my book, but generally its good to pick one or two neutral components and adjust the others. Having everything adding its own signature can be a recipe for madness as you hunt for Synergy with multiple effects boxes.
If people want to adjust to taste that's all good in my book, but generally its good to pick one or two neutral components and adjust the others. Having everything adding its own signature can be a recipe for madness as you hunt for Synergy with multiple effects boxes.
If you want the sweet sound of the 300B, I'll be happy to sell you a set of circuit boards... Total build budget: $1500ish for a quality but not audiophool build.
If, on the other hand, you prefer the amp to be acoustically transparent, the Modulus-86 is a much better choice. Total build budget: $400ish, including chassis, connectors, etc. Again for a quality but not audiophool build.
~Tom
Total build budget: $1500ish for a quality but not audiophool build.If, on the other hand, you prefer the amp to be acoustically transparent, the Modulus-86 is a much better choice. Total build budget: $400ish, including chassis, connectors, etc. Again for a quality but not audiophool build.
~Tom
There is a very effective strategy to use with tweaking, or optimising audio - using "poorer", more difficult recordings to guide one in honing the remaining weaknesses out of the system. In the same way one improves cars, by driving them more and more aggressively over bad roads, or creating even more nasty corrugations and potholes in test tracks - and taking careful note of how they behave - one can use "nasty" recordings to expose the often severe deficiencies in even quite pretentious setups.
The aim is for every recording to be handled well - maximum enjoyment is extracted, with minimal emphasis on source material anomalies. Perhaps surprisingly, this is possible - demonstrating that the ear/brain can do a remarkable job if the mechanics of the playback components don't louse the sound up significantly more ...
The aim is for every recording to be handled well - maximum enjoyment is extracted, with minimal emphasis on source material anomalies. Perhaps surprisingly, this is possible - demonstrating that the ear/brain can do a remarkable job if the mechanics of the playback components don't louse the sound up significantly more ...
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By focusing on listening for defects, not on "how well" it sounds - it something is faulty then a sound is present which does not mesh with the musical content, it doesn't "belong" - like hearing whether a mosquito is flying around when you're trying to sleep, you don't have to remember "what the mosquito sounded like", your only concern is that you don't hear the mosquito!!
IOW, you're listening for the presence, or absence of "wrong" sounds - it's a binary decision - if something doesn't gell with the listening then the sense of that being the case, if anything, keeps building as you continue listening, "you have a problem" - if all is in order, there is nothing tugging at your awareness, you can relax into the listening ...
IOW, you're listening for the presence, or absence of "wrong" sounds - it's a binary decision - if something doesn't gell with the listening then the sense of that being the case, if anything, keeps building as you continue listening, "you have a problem" - if all is in order, there is nothing tugging at your awareness, you can relax into the listening ...
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Looks to be argument from authority.
Soongsc if you're interested in modifying your Mod-86 drop me an email via the forum email facility as I have some suggestions you can try out for yourself. They don't involve boutique components incidentally, they're mods based on engineering considerations.
The evidence is strongly suggestive of your thinking being mistaken - I already shared the engineering rationale here but my contributions weren't welcomed - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...ier-achieving-0-0004-thd-n-5.html#post4099950