You can beta-test if you like but only, I repeat, only if you can build the thing according BOM first.
Of course, still Newton exist we know we need a fixed lever arm for a fixed point of reference...sure.
It means too : an unique BOM... & GB... (assuming the little differences between the Boms/GBs are not... little). You know the frenchs :give them 2 wines of the same Chateau but different years.... they want to taste all the century millesimes !
It means too : an unique BOM... & GB... (assuming the little differences between the Boms/GBs are not... little). You know the frenchs :give them 2 wines of the same Chateau but different years.... they want to taste all the century millesimes !
It means you need a reference point to compare with (before changing anything). Any change you make you can compare with another example exactly built the same as the first example.
So you have 1 "original" example and 1 modified. Now you compare. One change at a time. Listen and measure in between. Try it, it works ! 😉
So you have 1 "original" example and 1 modified. Now you compare. One change at a time. Listen and measure in between. Try it, it works ! 😉
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Yeap i know....we know what a revision is in IT management. it wil be possible as i have 2 pcbs...and at the emd of th week the genuine Bom and also exotic...i will undetstanding the exotic one in relation to the genuine. The exotic will be for the main sustem, setup for him and my ears (flavor, curry).
I think that you might be surprised by the changes with different power supply for the V3 DAC - I know that I was. Regarding the performance of the LM723 stock supply, noise isn't everything.
I wrote about this before - I find that the ceramic caps sound good but the difference is quite subtle. For me, this change was driven more by theory than listening.
---Gary
We tried a ceramic caps 1uf X7R vs BOM tantalum caps at C17 on 2 DAC's.
DAC 1 (Owned by me)
470uf Nichicon at C22 + BOM Parts
DAC 2 (Owned by Thecoolestone)
470uf Nichicon at C22 + 10uf Nichicon at C8,13,21 + 4.7 Wima MKS2 at C35 + BOM Parts
Both DAC were tested on two systems. Surprisingly, we found tantalum at C17 is doing better job than Ceramic Cap. Highs are more lively.
Needless to say between the two DAC's, DAC 2 sounds better than DAC 1.
Nichicon at C22 sounds much better than BOM caps. Unfortunately, Panasonic SEPC is not available.
Thanks Gary for all the modification Inputs.
DAC 1 (Owned by me)
470uf Nichicon at C22 + BOM Parts
DAC 2 (Owned by Thecoolestone)
470uf Nichicon at C22 + 10uf Nichicon at C8,13,21 + 4.7 Wima MKS2 at C35 + BOM Parts
Both DAC were tested on two systems. Surprisingly, we found tantalum at C17 is doing better job than Ceramic Cap. Highs are more lively.
Needless to say between the two DAC's, DAC 2 sounds better than DAC 1.
Nichicon at C22 sounds much better than BOM caps. Unfortunately, Panasonic SEPC is not available.
Thanks Gary for all the modification Inputs.
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Been listen for a while on the Salas and the subbu PSU:
And I Think that Salas gives a Little fatter bas and Subbu gives a more defined and a wider soundstage havent yet decided bu`t it´s leaning toward the subbu..........
And I Think that Salas gives a Little fatter bas and Subbu gives a more defined and a wider soundstage havent yet decided bu`t it´s leaning toward the subbu..........
Interesting result. While it's a different result from what I heard, it is still valid and points out why it's important for people to do their own experiments. Well done!
The UCC caps haven't gotten much attention for use at C22 (Avcc). I used a UCC NPCAP PSE series cap in one of my V2.6 DACs and found it to be one of the better sounding versions of the Subbu DAC that I have built. I only had 1 of these caps so I haven't had a chance to experiment too much with this brand but my 1 data point is encouraging. It might be an interesting alternative to the Panasonic SEPC and the Nichicon FPCAP if people want to do more comparisons. I just received an order from digikey containing more of these so I will do a few more experiments.
You're very welcome. It's gratifying to see other people try out some of these ideas and get good results.
---Gary
Hi Garry,
Those UCC are in front of me like 5 others i bought at Mouser (one Lelon 470 uf 125°c inside the list!
On the bench too: 5 different 1 uF
3 different 10 uf for C21 & C8 & C13
Tests with 1 uF acylic cap
And of course all I need for one of the genuine version of The BOM
recieved friday the Mouser Box... here this is a fanatic camp... The more difficult was to solder on C17 : 0.001 + 0.1 + 1.0 uf : all 605 case & ceramic : hard but possible : need to solder them before the crystal... then the crystal is harder to sold than ever !
Puted alredy a direct plug for the 75 ohms but below the board as the signal & ground are in the wrong sens on the V3 PCB (signal at right & this is the opposite for the bnc for pcbs i bought (the less soldering & wire, the best signal ?!...
Banzai... I could have fun as I have a genuine version which play music already ! I like all these flavor set up... remind me the lego when i was a child !
I will come back if i have something interresting to say.
Gary, i was unable to find the pulse transformer you advised to me because no big BOM enough for digikey but I bought a Murata 1:1 ... ears will telle me if it's good enough ! For the JG buffer : I soldered directly FKP2 150 pf from Wima as advised... But what a catastroph for the EUVL buffer board : smd are too little for the shunt around the 470 ohms serie... not sure to be so little add something on this particular pcb instead 1210 case... but headache and burn component ! I used the Bourns inductors as the fastron are always in waiting list at Mouser!
Finding a metal box stay a problem as I have to put 3 transformers and a common chocke filter. 3 PS PCBs, the JG Buffer, a SqueezeBOx Duet with the plugs avaliable from behind the box and of course the Subbu ! And all the switchs and leds in front of the case. I think i will beginn with wood and will think about faraday cage inside with holes. I have no earth in the livingroom wall plugs...
Those UCC are in front of me like 5 others i bought at Mouser (one Lelon 470 uf 125°c inside the list!
On the bench too: 5 different 1 uF
3 different 10 uf for C21 & C8 & C13
Tests with 1 uF acylic cap
And of course all I need for one of the genuine version of The BOM
recieved friday the Mouser Box... here this is a fanatic camp... The more difficult was to solder on C17 : 0.001 + 0.1 + 1.0 uf : all 605 case & ceramic : hard but possible : need to solder them before the crystal... then the crystal is harder to sold than ever !
Puted alredy a direct plug for the 75 ohms but below the board as the signal & ground are in the wrong sens on the V3 PCB (signal at right & this is the opposite for the bnc for pcbs i bought (the less soldering & wire, the best signal ?!...
Banzai... I could have fun as I have a genuine version which play music already ! I like all these flavor set up... remind me the lego when i was a child !
I will come back if i have something interresting to say.
Gary, i was unable to find the pulse transformer you advised to me because no big BOM enough for digikey but I bought a Murata 1:1 ... ears will telle me if it's good enough ! For the JG buffer : I soldered directly FKP2 150 pf from Wima as advised... But what a catastroph for the EUVL buffer board : smd are too little for the shunt around the 470 ohms serie... not sure to be so little add something on this particular pcb instead 1210 case... but headache and burn component ! I used the Bourns inductors as the fastron are always in waiting list at Mouser!
Finding a metal box stay a problem as I have to put 3 transformers and a common chocke filter. 3 PS PCBs, the JG Buffer, a SqueezeBOx Duet with the plugs avaliable from behind the box and of course the Subbu ! And all the switchs and leds in front of the case. I think i will beginn with wood and will think about faraday cage inside with holes. I have no earth in the livingroom wall plugs...
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Any suggestions on whether I should 2 pin or 3 pin plug with earthing wire.
Most of my electronics are two pin plug.
Any suggestions on where should I terminate earth wire in case of three pin used.
Most of my electronics are two pin plug.
Any suggestions on where should I terminate earth wire in case of three pin used.
Here's what I do. Assuming that you're using a metal box, I ground the chassis to the ground pin of the 3 pin power connector. I then wire things up as shown in the attached diagram. I treat the ground of the RCA outputs as the internal ground and connect that to the chassis through a low wattage (1/4W) 2.2 ohm resistor. This avoids any ground loops. And if by accident AC power is connected to the chassis, the resistor will act as a fuse and blow up.
---Gary
Attachments
Hi Garry,
I assume metal box should be avoided if no earth on the wall plugs (but at the own risk of the diyer & him family 😱) ?
Is the metal box allow itself EMI shielding or does it need to be "polarized" with the ground also for a question of sound ( I mean: electrical shielding by the difference of local potential with Neutral & phase) or do we go just with aluminium case because amagnetic...
Sorry but my understanding is poor, my own experience with my diy cdplayers is I never heard any difference between wood box and metal box and i am in a very poluted electrical and air waves (cellulars, wifi) environement ?
I assume metal box should be avoided if no earth on the wall plugs (but at the own risk of the diyer & him family 😱) ?
Is the metal box allow itself EMI shielding or does it need to be "polarized" with the ground also for a question of sound ( I mean: electrical shielding by the difference of local potential with Neutral & phase) or do we go just with aluminium case because amagnetic...
Sorry but my understanding is poor, my own experience with my diy cdplayers is I never heard any difference between wood box and metal box and i am in a very poluted electrical and air waves (cellulars, wifi) environement ?
I've built a couple of DACS in non-metal boxes and they work fine and sound good. If I recall correctly, even JP agrees that using a non-metal box might actually sound better. And the DAC doesn't need its own reference to the AC ground connection. In the experiments that I've done, I often have the DAC sitting on a shelf so there is no case to ground to. I just leave the DAC ground floating and it gets its ground reference from the integrated amplifier that it's driving. But the amplifier is referenced to ground. I'm far from an expert on the details of safely wiring a system when there is no ground connection at all. Perhaps others can offer some advice.
---Gary
A metal box is essential for shielding against RF. That wood sounds better might very well be nice today but it can change tomorrow. With metal shielding RF stays out where it belongs.
Thanks Garry, It helps.
I will try a hugly metal box I have just to listen to if there is a difference with wood in my RF environment. If not I will stay with wood: easier for my project (SB+SUBBU inside... of course with RJ45).
About the safety: I think metal box is correct here in Europe because all the low current cunsumption devices have just two pins plug... but inside if metal box : you need plastics plugs to connect the 115/230 V both on the transformer board and on the box plug to respect normes. Ancient cd player from the 80s' do not have those but a more recent cd player have those plastic plugs inside (saw on a sony and a philips).
But a SOTA picture like we saw above from a fellow is good enough
I will try a hugly metal box I have just to listen to if there is a difference with wood in my RF environment. If not I will stay with wood: easier for my project (SB+SUBBU inside... of course with RJ45).
About the safety: I think metal box is correct here in Europe because all the low current cunsumption devices have just two pins plug... but inside if metal box : you need plastics plugs to connect the 115/230 V both on the transformer board and on the box plug to respect normes. Ancient cd player from the 80s' do not have those but a more recent cd player have those plastic plugs inside (saw on a sony and a philips).
But a SOTA picture like we saw above from a fellow is good enough