Hey guys, I do not know why you complain. The whole problem is in you and the music you buy and listen. If you buy a commercial s..., you will have same results.
Look at this CD. TELARC, Ravel, General Dance, engineered by Bishop. Look at the dynamics, you will never never get it from LP !!!!!
And that stupid Bob Dylan's comment about small disc ....
Look at this CD. TELARC, Ravel, General Dance, engineered by Bishop. Look at the dynamics, you will never never get it from LP !!!!!
And that stupid Bob Dylan's comment about small disc ....
Attachments
Yes but some styles of 'pop' music currently available are liked by a good number of people. It's just a pity the quality is so bad.
I occasionally work as a mobile DJ, and therefore have to buy some of this stuff, although I much prefer material from 2 - 3 decades ago, but that's possibly an age thing....
Have a listen, if you dare, to a recent No. 1 song - Lily Allen's 'Smile'. Listen to the distortion on the bass line.
Was it done intentionally? If so, why?? It makes a high quality system sound overdriven or plain crap.
If not intentional, how come it wasn't noticed and corrected?
I occasionally work as a mobile DJ, and therefore have to buy some of this stuff, although I much prefer material from 2 - 3 decades ago, but that's possibly an age thing....
Have a listen, if you dare, to a recent No. 1 song - Lily Allen's 'Smile'. Listen to the distortion on the bass line.
Was it done intentionally? If so, why?? It makes a high quality system sound overdriven or plain crap.
If not intentional, how come it wasn't noticed and corrected?
compression
Pavel´s one
Hi, Pavel. I have very catholic tastes regarding music. From Satie, to Ravel, to seventies prog, to some electronica, and a lot of rock.
In my agenda, some pop crap is out of the question.But what is now classical is derived, in a good measure, from popular songs of the days of yore. A lot of rennaissance music has roots in the ¨pop¨ or ¨folk¨ scene of those years. Then, via reelaboration, more skilled people gave that music the complexity and sophistication needed to transcend to more ¨palatial¨ environments...
But well... happens that the virus of overcompression is affecting more valuable pop/folk/rock/avant garde material.
And this happens in the context of a ¨consumer society¨ in which you have the right to obtain something good for your money.
I think that a lot of people uses music as a sort of background ¨lifestyle soundtrack¨, and in background applications music with more balance dynamics is out. Should the music have the whole dynamic range that modern media is capable to offer, a good part of the content would be lost below the ambient noise. We are talkin about casual listeners, not more refined ones. And more refined ones are, pitiful, a minority.
But in a real democracy, majorities rule, but minorities count.
That´s why we complain.
CD´S are not cheap. We wanted better sound quality, and some of us care a **** about ¨casual listeners¨, ¨listening trends¨, etc.
I believe that a more democratical approach would be: ¨if you want compression, use a compressor in your home¨.
But...I don´t know
I remember some NAD preamp of years ago, sporting a inbuilt variable compressor: if you wanted some background, the you resort to the gimmick and done.
I believe that we´re losing some freedom of choice here, and that`s what annoys me.
Pavel´s one
Hi, Pavel. I have very catholic tastes regarding music. From Satie, to Ravel, to seventies prog, to some electronica, and a lot of rock.
In my agenda, some pop crap is out of the question.But what is now classical is derived, in a good measure, from popular songs of the days of yore. A lot of rennaissance music has roots in the ¨pop¨ or ¨folk¨ scene of those years. Then, via reelaboration, more skilled people gave that music the complexity and sophistication needed to transcend to more ¨palatial¨ environments...
But well... happens that the virus of overcompression is affecting more valuable pop/folk/rock/avant garde material.
And this happens in the context of a ¨consumer society¨ in which you have the right to obtain something good for your money.
I think that a lot of people uses music as a sort of background ¨lifestyle soundtrack¨, and in background applications music with more balance dynamics is out. Should the music have the whole dynamic range that modern media is capable to offer, a good part of the content would be lost below the ambient noise. We are talkin about casual listeners, not more refined ones. And more refined ones are, pitiful, a minority.
But in a real democracy, majorities rule, but minorities count.
That´s why we complain.
CD´S are not cheap. We wanted better sound quality, and some of us care a **** about ¨casual listeners¨, ¨listening trends¨, etc.
I believe that a more democratical approach would be: ¨if you want compression, use a compressor in your home¨.
But...I don´t know
I remember some NAD preamp of years ago, sporting a inbuilt variable compressor: if you wanted some background, the you resort to the gimmick and done.
I believe that we´re losing some freedom of choice here, and that`s what annoys me.
posted by facundonu
Jejeje, Facundo! I´m a former user of the Sarmiento Line.
I lived in General Las Heras, a country city, some 70 kms of Sarmiento train traveling... what a trip!
Not for the fainthearted: that`s trekking, not commuting!!
I don´t know if the andean musicians are the same, but I have heard the ones that you know, and they`re amazingly good.
In the Mitre there are a pair of old rockers too, doin´ Pappo stuff.
I don´t know why, but that music has some 70´s melancholic flavour that`s make me sad. Maybe for the great deal of ¨out of bussiness¨ musicians trying to make a living on those trains...
But the most bizarro was a young lad doin´ some electronica there -he was charging a nice, big Yamaha synth-...
Cool.
Cheers.
Jejeje, Facundo! I´m a former user of the Sarmiento Line.
I lived in General Las Heras, a country city, some 70 kms of Sarmiento train traveling... what a trip!
Not for the fainthearted: that`s trekking, not commuting!!
I don´t know if the andean musicians are the same, but I have heard the ones that you know, and they`re amazingly good.
In the Mitre there are a pair of old rockers too, doin´ Pappo stuff.
I don´t know why, but that music has some 70´s melancholic flavour that`s make me sad. Maybe for the great deal of ¨out of bussiness¨ musicians trying to make a living on those trains...
But the most bizarro was a young lad doin´ some electronica there -he was charging a nice, big Yamaha synth-...
Cool.
Cheers.
posted by PMA
Don´t worry, Pavel. Semantics are difficult in today´s world. When one says ¨I like pop¨, sometimes give the impression of being saying ¨I like Milli Vanilli, Britney Spears, Rickie Martin...¨
Pop is a very ambiguous term. The same for rock, folk, etc.
Tastes are tastes, but I agree that in the pop realm, bad taste is overly present.
Nice regards.
Don´t worry, Pavel. Semantics are difficult in today´s world. When one says ¨I like pop¨, sometimes give the impression of being saying ¨I like Milli Vanilli, Britney Spears, Rickie Martin...¨
Pop is a very ambiguous term. The same for rock, folk, etc.
Tastes are tastes, but I agree that in the pop realm, bad taste is overly present.
Nice regards.
really interesting site and forum
I would like to post here an URL of a site and forum with very interesting info and discussion of media, mastering, sound quality etc.
It belongs to Steve Hoffman, a very experienced and skillful engineer with really good ears -just check out some of The Who or Bob Dylan reissues that he did in the past-
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php
Lots of stuff concerning tape, vinyl, music, new formats etc.
I think that it will make a enjoyable reading for a lot of us.
Cheers
I would like to post here an URL of a site and forum with very interesting info and discussion of media, mastering, sound quality etc.
It belongs to Steve Hoffman, a very experienced and skillful engineer with really good ears -just check out some of The Who or Bob Dylan reissues that he did in the past-
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/index.php
Lots of stuff concerning tape, vinyl, music, new formats etc.
I think that it will make a enjoyable reading for a lot of us.
Cheers
sonogram...
Pavel, isn´t that the sonogram of a blackbird chirp?
Cause that Kate Bush record is full of bird noises, and the artwork is based in some sonogram that was manipulated to create a surreal visual landscape... Very nice recording, and beautiful music.
I´ll check ¨Bertie¨ tonight .
In a similar fashion, a cd with stunning dynamics is Tori Amos ¨Into the Pink¨. The material has some obvious Kate Bush influences, is well recorded, and with good dynamic shading.
Cheers
Pavel, isn´t that the sonogram of a blackbird chirp?
Cause that Kate Bush record is full of bird noises, and the artwork is based in some sonogram that was manipulated to create a surreal visual landscape... Very nice recording, and beautiful music.
I´ll check ¨Bertie¨ tonight .
In a similar fashion, a cd with stunning dynamics is Tori Amos ¨Into the Pink¨. The material has some obvious Kate Bush influences, is well recorded, and with good dynamic shading.
Cheers
Originally posted by PMA
Of course that is true!
But is a pity that a good deal of very nice music is mastered in such an ill fashion -overcompression et al-: that´s the real complain.
Because we don´t buy records based only in the tech info.
Me not, at least.
A lot of engineers that I know of are in love with the gimmicks.
And some musicians too. And some of them are very creative musicians, with something to tell.
I remember an anecdote that I heard in the past, about some rock musician that was very ¨into the mix¨, you know, telling engineers to do this and to do that, compress there, crank up the treble here, etc.
He was a veteran of the local rock arena, maybe in his late fifties, and with a lot of high spl shows at his back.
And he was calling ¨treble¨ at the 5000/8000 Hz band, cause he wasn´t able to hear beyond that, for all of the hearing damage related to years and years of SPL abuse...
Imagine what kind of recordings those were...
If only the RIAA would create some de-facto standard to avoid such excesses, or at least to guarantee a minimum recording quality... But I believe that such a thing attempts against creative freedom.
And creative freedom is one of the greatest strenghts of rock music, be it progressive, pop, power, avant-garde or whatever... -
It´s very difficult to conciliate those things...
My 11/2 cents
Of course that is true!
But is a pity that a good deal of very nice music is mastered in such an ill fashion -overcompression et al-: that´s the real complain.
Because we don´t buy records based only in the tech info.
Me not, at least.
A lot of engineers that I know of are in love with the gimmicks.
And some musicians too. And some of them are very creative musicians, with something to tell.
I remember an anecdote that I heard in the past, about some rock musician that was very ¨into the mix¨, you know, telling engineers to do this and to do that, compress there, crank up the treble here, etc.
He was a veteran of the local rock arena, maybe in his late fifties, and with a lot of high spl shows at his back.
And he was calling ¨treble¨ at the 5000/8000 Hz band, cause he wasn´t able to hear beyond that, for all of the hearing damage related to years and years of SPL abuse...
Imagine what kind of recordings those were...
If only the RIAA would create some de-facto standard to avoid such excesses, or at least to guarantee a minimum recording quality... But I believe that such a thing attempts against creative freedom.
And creative freedom is one of the greatest strenghts of rock music, be it progressive, pop, power, avant-garde or whatever... -
It´s very difficult to conciliate those things...
My 11/2 cents
our choice what we listen and buy ...?
I can send my copy back but won't get anything better in return... despite I like the music.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=926267#post926267
/Hugo
I can send my copy back but won't get anything better in return... despite I like the music.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=926267#post926267
/Hugo
Netlist said:If that’s at all possible in Cooledit (or another program), just tell me how to mold your technical jargon
/Hugo
You have not shown low signal levels (me too), as Y axis has had linear scalling and you do not see much on 5 cm in linear scale.
Firstly we spoke about over compressed records. Neither your, nor mine tracks were this case.
If we want to start to compare achievable dynamics on different media, we have to make a choice of different visualization method (different graph). I am not about to do it now. I can give you a hint - find PPP and FFF on different recordings. If you get 60 - 70 dB dynamics from LP (not surface noise but signal), then I will be convinced.
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