Fred Dieckmann
I had a post that was really going to rip you new one but decided I will no longer be inflammatory. The fact is that all my claims were backed up with examples. I'm holding my hand out in a peaceful gesture on this one. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to make me look like an *** but this wasn't one. Don't be a sore loser.
I had a post that was really going to rip you new one but decided I will no longer be inflammatory. The fact is that all my claims were backed up with examples. I'm holding my hand out in a peaceful gesture on this one. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities in the future to make me look like an *** but this wasn't one. Don't be a sore loser.
Re: Oh..................
All I can do to keep you both happy is send Jocko to Sin Bin for calling Nania an idiot and sent the "Fly me to the moon" thread to Texas. I wanted to avoid it, but things just can't go any other way.
Fred,
As to your preamp design, I'm not really intereted in it. I stopped believing you could come with a better design than me.
Fred Dieckmann said:
nania said:
All I can do to keep you both happy is send Jocko to Sin Bin for calling Nania an idiot and sent the "Fly me to the moon" thread to Texas. I wanted to avoid it, but things just can't go any other way.
Fred,
As to your preamp design, I'm not really intereted in it. I stopped believing you could come with a better design than me.
Peter Daniel
You don't have to put JockoHomo in the SinBin on my account. As I stated earlier, this is a time for reconciliation and when one fights, he should expect to receive a black eye now and again. I can live with the whole world knowing that JockoHomo thinks I'm an idiot and I think Fred could and should live with an example of what he sounds like when he goes on the attack and hopefully, in time, make him realize that there is a better way. The thread has a right to stand IMHO. Putting it there will look as though the mods too closely resemble the coward in jams timely pic.
You don't have to put JockoHomo in the SinBin on my account. As I stated earlier, this is a time for reconciliation and when one fights, he should expect to receive a black eye now and again. I can live with the whole world knowing that JockoHomo thinks I'm an idiot and I think Fred could and should live with an example of what he sounds like when he goes on the attack and hopefully, in time, make him realize that there is a better way. The thread has a right to stand IMHO. Putting it there will look as though the mods too closely resemble the coward in jams timely pic.
That's a good attitude and I knew you were not after Jocko. I moved "Fly me to the moon" thread to Off Topic section, since it went way too much off topic. After few days, I'll move it to Texas. I also don't think you will pursue Fred anymore. He's a man of many talents, but flying you to the Moon is not one of them. I hope you understand what I mean. Do we have agreement on that matter, or is there anything else you would like to add?
Re: Oh..................
Your attitude towards Kuei Yang Wang in local regulators thread was far from accepted standards and that triggered Nania's response. I completely didn't mind it, since straightening you out was actually desired.😉
Fred Dieckmann said:
Your attitude towards Kuei Yang Wang in local regulators thread was far from accepted standards and that triggered Nania's response. I completely didn't mind it, since straightening you out was actually desired.😉
Peter, i must give some positive feedback. this is much better moderating than sinbining members without a word to them and delete the posts without comment. I see it is more work for you as you need to read a lot and understand whats going on, and do a lot communication work. But it is more respect to the members and will have better effect than this old moderation style i criticized short time ago.
When they become inflamed, hemorrhoids can
This is the first peace offering that I ever received that started with "I had a post that was really going to rip you new one..."
I too raise my hand in a gesture to you.... and one finger in particular. I will take no opportunities in the future to make you look like an ***. Your skills that are far beyond mine that area, and even I know to express humility in the presence of world class accomplishment such as yours, in this sport.
From this and your previous post, I am truly flatted that you took such heartfelt inspiration from the Mark Twain quote at the end http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=182314#post182314 I never anticipated anyone embracing to such a degree. Again in this skill you fill me with what I can only describe as "Shock and Awe" in response to your fine efforts.
Peter, I thought the point of moderation was to prevent such exchages not inflame them. If a moderator has a problem with me come to me to talk about it instead of letting someone else get in the middle of it to make things. Jocko is not the one to to go to the sin bin. You sat are your but and let this whole thing get out of hand and still are dealing with it. this is The biggest case of double standards I have ever seen. Nania deserves twice the stay that Jocko does if Jocko deseves any at all. If the moderators had shown any spine at all, it never would have got the point of him having to stick up for me.
Perhaps you can put me in the sin bin as well. I would go gladly just to see a moderator do something, even the wrong thing.
For the record no moderator has Emailed me about any of this or responded to my Email on the subject.
This is the first peace offering that I ever received that started with "I had a post that was really going to rip you new one..."
I too raise my hand in a gesture to you.... and one finger in particular. I will take no opportunities in the future to make you look like an ***. Your skills that are far beyond mine that area, and even I know to express humility in the presence of world class accomplishment such as yours, in this sport.
From this and your previous post, I am truly flatted that you took such heartfelt inspiration from the Mark Twain quote at the end http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=182314#post182314 I never anticipated anyone embracing to such a degree. Again in this skill you fill me with what I can only describe as "Shock and Awe" in response to your fine efforts.
Peter, I thought the point of moderation was to prevent such exchages not inflame them. If a moderator has a problem with me come to me to talk about it instead of letting someone else get in the middle of it to make things. Jocko is not the one to to go to the sin bin. You sat are your but and let this whole thing get out of hand and still are dealing with it. this is The biggest case of double standards I have ever seen. Nania deserves twice the stay that Jocko does if Jocko deseves any at all. If the moderators had shown any spine at all, it never would have got the point of him having to stick up for me.
Perhaps you can put me in the sin bin as well. I would go gladly just to see a moderator do something, even the wrong thing.
For the record no moderator has Emailed me about any of this or responded to my Email on the subject.
Peter Daniel
This is all going terribly wrong 🙁
What started out as a calculated way to give Fred a taste of his own medicine AND a door to legendary DIY greatness has turned into a fiasco. I sympathize with the pressure on the mods brought about by this situation. Fred Dieckmann and JockoHomo are both terribly important to the forum and losing them would be damaging but it is in these trying situations where we must summon our inner God and make the right decision. Hopefully, the decision will be one that will make Fred reflect on himself and not one where he can claim that he beat up on the mods until he got his way. Fred rarely gets his *** handed to him and it would be a shame to let this one shining example go to oblivion. That would be bad for the forum and to Fred's psychological development. Really think about this one guys, it's more important than it looks.
Fred, wouldn't it nice if people couldn't say he knows his stuff but...
This is all going terribly wrong 🙁
What started out as a calculated way to give Fred a taste of his own medicine AND a door to legendary DIY greatness has turned into a fiasco. I sympathize with the pressure on the mods brought about by this situation. Fred Dieckmann and JockoHomo are both terribly important to the forum and losing them would be damaging but it is in these trying situations where we must summon our inner God and make the right decision. Hopefully, the decision will be one that will make Fred reflect on himself and not one where he can claim that he beat up on the mods until he got his way. Fred rarely gets his *** handed to him and it would be a shame to let this one shining example go to oblivion. That would be bad for the forum and to Fred's psychological development. Really think about this one guys, it's more important than it looks.
Fred, wouldn't it nice if people couldn't say he knows his stuff but...
Since the discussion that followed didn't have much to do with moderating, I moved it here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15802
Hi,
Just to state that I can't feel to happy about the latest decision to put Mrfeedback in the sinbin and letting Steve Eddy get away with his nonsense.
If one were to analyse that particular thread it would be obvious that SE changed views with the wind, going from:
I don't care if my cable is oxidised like hell to crystal orientation may matter...
Sorry to say so, but I rarely ever encountered such unfounded U-turns from a single person who's notorious for arguing just for the fun of it.
In a couple of dozens posts he got TL, MrFeedback and myself in anger not so much for what he said but for being so evasive and playing moving target.
The man must be either completely spineless or totally schizo, either way it ain't healthy.
Now he must feel very victorious for acting as if it's none of his doing?
Sorry, but I know better...he's been playing too many games for people not to see through him.
Keep in mind that I'm not defending Mrfeedback in any way...he pushed it too far, I know, just trying to defend the forum which is ultimately the sum of its' members.
Pink Mouse, I fully understand your reaction...I just feel it's a little light on the other party involved seeing the nature of it.
Just trying to be constructive here, being a moderator can't be easy.
Respect,😉
Just to state that I can't feel to happy about the latest decision to put Mrfeedback in the sinbin and letting Steve Eddy get away with his nonsense.
If one were to analyse that particular thread it would be obvious that SE changed views with the wind, going from:
I don't care if my cable is oxidised like hell to crystal orientation may matter...
Sorry to say so, but I rarely ever encountered such unfounded U-turns from a single person who's notorious for arguing just for the fun of it.
In a couple of dozens posts he got TL, MrFeedback and myself in anger not so much for what he said but for being so evasive and playing moving target.
The man must be either completely spineless or totally schizo, either way it ain't healthy.
Now he must feel very victorious for acting as if it's none of his doing?
Sorry, but I know better...he's been playing too many games for people not to see through him.
Keep in mind that I'm not defending Mrfeedback in any way...he pushed it too far, I know, just trying to defend the forum which is ultimately the sum of its' members.
Pink Mouse, I fully understand your reaction...I just feel it's a little light on the other party involved seeing the nature of it.
Just trying to be constructive here, being a moderator can't be easy.
Respect,😉
Hi Frank, thanks for your words of support.
Just a few comments to try and put my actions in context.
Over the past month or so, there has been a very nasty feeling in the air in certain areas of diyAudio, and this was not the way that we feel we want the board to go. Although the major problems of the past have not reoccured, and open fights have not broken out on the same scale as before, this low intensity conflict could not be allowed to go on, even though the literal rules of the board were being obeyed.
I personally have been aware of several threads that oozed low level nastyness and acrimony, and despite having,(what I think anyway😉), relevant opinions and experiences of the matter under discussion, I have kept uninvolved so as when action needed to be taken I could do so as an uninvolved party.
General comments to this effect had been made by several concerned members in private emails, and when Mrfeedback ignored my request to try and be polite in the Amplifier Testing thread, I feel I had no recourse but to sinbin him.
Although he was the first, and I hope the last, we will have to see how things develop.
Just a few comments to try and put my actions in context.
Over the past month or so, there has been a very nasty feeling in the air in certain areas of diyAudio, and this was not the way that we feel we want the board to go. Although the major problems of the past have not reoccured, and open fights have not broken out on the same scale as before, this low intensity conflict could not be allowed to go on, even though the literal rules of the board were being obeyed.
I personally have been aware of several threads that oozed low level nastyness and acrimony, and despite having,(what I think anyway😉), relevant opinions and experiences of the matter under discussion, I have kept uninvolved so as when action needed to be taken I could do so as an uninvolved party.
General comments to this effect had been made by several concerned members in private emails, and when Mrfeedback ignored my request to try and be polite in the Amplifier Testing thread, I feel I had no recourse but to sinbin him.
Although he was the first, and I hope the last, we will have to see how things develop.
fdegrove said:
Excuse me? Where did I say ANYTHING about crystal orientation? Please quote what you claim I said about crystal orientation and how it is any sort of U-turn with respect to anything else I've said.
Nothing in the online world pisses me off more than people putting words in my mouth and claiming I've said things I've never said. And especially those who claim I've said things I've never said who refuse to substantiate their claims by actually quoting me saying what they claim I've said.
So what, specifically, is this "nonsense" you refer to, Frank?
I was evasive? Evasive about what? What did you ask of me that I did not answer straightforwardly? Now I did ask a number of questions of you, TL and mrfeedback and got little in return except some buzzwords parroted from marketing literature.
For example, I asked you how, specifically, copper oxide would deliteriously effect the signal. You came back with "semiconductor effects." When I pressed for more details as to just what this semiconductor effect you were referring to was, you simply couldn't take the disucssion any further and started dancing around like Fred Astaire. And the question still remains unanswered.
So who's the evasive one here?
What's spineless is parroting marketing literature and when you can't find the answers in that marketing literature, you try and turn the tables on the one asking the questions of those making the claims in the first place.
My culpability is my lack of patience with those who try to put words in my mouth and claim I've said things I've never said.
Yet here you are doing the very same thing that he did. Putting words in my mouth and claiming I've said things I've never said.
So either quote me where I have said the things you claim I have said or volunteer to keep mrfeedback company in SinBin.
se
I've been on a few boards and this is the first one I've ever seen with anything like a SinBin. In most forums with Moderators, they delete a couple of posts they find offensive, and if the poster continues to violate the forum's standards, they simply drop him off the forum.
With a SinBin, the Moderators have a choice. Without one, banning is all that is left. I think it would be easier for the Moderators if there was no SinBin. It would be like one day you see a guy on the forum, and the next day you don't. That's it. Much easier for the Moderators.
While you can debate back and forth about who deserved the SinBin and who did not, and for how long and which offense, the fact remains that the SinBin is there to try to keep members on the forum, not kick them off.
With a SinBin, the Moderators have a choice. Without one, banning is all that is left. I think it would be easier for the Moderators if there was no SinBin. It would be like one day you see a guy on the forum, and the next day you don't. That's it. Much easier for the Moderators.
While you can debate back and forth about who deserved the SinBin and who did not, and for how long and which offense, the fact remains that the SinBin is there to try to keep members on the forum, not kick them off.
kelticwizard said:
Sure.
But what about repeat offenders? Is SinBin to be little more than the online equivalent of the revolving door that our criminal justice system has become? I mean, if you have to SinBin someone a dozen times or so, what's that say? It's like when you read about some drunk driver killing someone and finding out that they'd been arrested a dozen times before on drunk driving charges. You wonder why on earth someone who has been arrested a dozen times on drunk driving charges is still free.
How 'bout something along the lines of a Three Strikes rule? If you need to be SinBinned more than x number of times, you've demonstrated that you're simply not worth the trouble and you're out.
I'm sure SinBin is little more than a joke those who make it a semi-permanent residence. Just a place to rest up their kicking leg so they can be in top shape when they get out and start kicking shins again.
se
Steve Eddy said:
We still have to wait a while to see someone sinbinned dozen times. On average it's only once and just a few individuals repeated a sinbin sentence. I believe there's only one case of someone being sinbinned three times.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/printthread.php?s=&threadid=5121&perpage=39
With a SinBin, the Moderators have a choice. Without one, banning is all that is left. I think it would be easier for the Moderators if there was no SinBin. It would be like one day you see a guy on the forum, and the next day you don't. That's it. Much easier for the Moderators.
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It's good to have the sin bin with a public statement. It is up to us memebers not to prolong discussion. In other forums, business and personal interests tend to rule in certain cases, and some individuals are incredibly rude.
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It's good to have the sin bin with a public statement. It is up to us memebers not to prolong discussion. In other forums, business and personal interests tend to rule in certain cases, and some individuals are incredibly rude.
Peter Daniel said:
The dozen times wasn't intended to be literal, it was hypebole.
But I count five for Fred (which includes his sock puppets RenHoeck, Harry Haller and ArtNyos). Not to mention several other sock puppets which were simply banned outright.
Frank is at three and mrfeedback is at four, though in one instance the moderator decided to fall on his own sword and accept the responsibility for his allowing mrfeedback to violate the rule he was SinBinned for and served the last four days of mrfeedback's sentence.
I didn't include the one with me and mrfeedback which was suspended which would have put mrfeedback at five and me at one.
In any case, the point is, how much is "enough"? Clearly there must be some point where enough is enough. Fred reached that point and was permanently banned and the only reason he's still here is because you found out that you simply couldn't ban him at all.
se
fmak said:
True.
And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a SinBin. It can certainly serve as a deterrent for some. I'm just wondering when, in the case of repeat offenses, that enough becomes enough. If at all.
se
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