try Jordan's US Distributor for JX92S and other Full Range Drivers
im sure they can shipout to canada.
or u can check Alpair 10FR by markaudio, CSS sells them in canada.
Creative Sound - Speakers and Parts Product List
http://markaudio.com/sites/all/files/Alpair 10-Full-Guide.pdf
both have similarity and are very good drivers.
cheers
im sure they can shipout to canada.
or u can check Alpair 10FR by markaudio, CSS sells them in canada.
Creative Sound - Speakers and Parts Product List
http://markaudio.com/sites/all/files/Alpair 10-Full-Guide.pdf
both have similarity and are very good drivers.
cheers
Hi,
Lots of posts in this threads but apart from from Gotzilla and Martin himself, no one else has reported having built these speakers and their experience with this design.
I am interested in placing my GM MLTL 31 for Jordan's JX92s with the aurum cantus ribbon tweeter (Jimmy Griffing design) on top of the H frame using the Goldwood GW-1858 and replicating the low and high pass filters designed by MJK between the woofer and the Jordan.
I love the MLTL 31 but I am moving them to a much bigger room and am afraid the bass department will suffer without help from a woofer. I really like the simplicity of the H frame (and the price of the drivers). I will only used them for acoustic jazz at low to moderate volumes and hope they will do a good job.
Any opinions on the above will be appreciated.
Thanks
Antonio
Lots of posts in this threads but apart from from Gotzilla and Martin himself, no one else has reported having built these speakers and their experience with this design.
I am interested in placing my GM MLTL 31 for Jordan's JX92s with the aurum cantus ribbon tweeter (Jimmy Griffing design) on top of the H frame using the Goldwood GW-1858 and replicating the low and high pass filters designed by MJK between the woofer and the Jordan.
I love the MLTL 31 but I am moving them to a much bigger room and am afraid the bass department will suffer without help from a woofer. I really like the simplicity of the H frame (and the price of the drivers). I will only used them for acoustic jazz at low to moderate volumes and hope they will do a good job.
Any opinions on the above will be appreciated.
Thanks
Antonio
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I have been running the Goldwoods with the Jim Griffin Mini-monitors for a few months now. I had some interaction on the high pass filter and switched to 98 uf capacitor only.
The bass still seems to be a couple of dB too high for many recordings, but most of the time, it is the best coverage of the full frequency range I have found for the price. The soundstage is pinpoint, after very careful positioning. I don't think I could do as well with commercial for a lot more than I put in to these. I have Vandersteen 3A sigs with subs on my home theater, and pair of Maggies in the corner now that I have this setup.
I definitely recommend the setup.
Craig
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>>> I really like the simplicity of the H frame (and the price of the drivers). I will only used them for acoustic jazz at low to moderate volumes and hope they will do a good job.
Antonio, I can speak of the Alpha 15s only (at the moment)... and realize others love the Goldwoods... but if these H-frames are anywhere near in performance all i can say is you will be spoiled for rich, full, effortless, dynamic bass.
Craig, your systems look delish! I will build something similar in scale using the H-frames and sitting monitors on top like you have. I see this as yet another way to make amazing music... along with very simple BIBs (using just one driver!) and OB's that i am building and tweaking now (betsy/boomers... also using Alpha 15's). Building speakers has taught me there are so many different ways to build a high quality, high end set of speakers. They may all sound different but they can all take you places you can't go with moderately priced commercial gear.
Godzilla
Antonio, I can speak of the Alpha 15s only (at the moment)... and realize others love the Goldwoods... but if these H-frames are anywhere near in performance all i can say is you will be spoiled for rich, full, effortless, dynamic bass.
Craig, your systems look delish! I will build something similar in scale using the H-frames and sitting monitors on top like you have. I see this as yet another way to make amazing music... along with very simple BIBs (using just one driver!) and OB's that i am building and tweaking now (betsy/boomers... also using Alpha 15's). Building speakers has taught me there are so many different ways to build a high quality, high end set of speakers. They may all sound different but they can all take you places you can't go with moderately priced commercial gear.
Godzilla
i am wondering how many watts needed for the goldwoods or alpha 15?
will 25watts of F5 suffice?
im lurking for this setup also
cheers
will 25watts of F5 suffice?
im lurking for this setup also
cheers
Thanks for the comments. Actually, I am building an Alpha 15 setup right now to see if the slightly less bass they should produce is a better match. I found I could tune somewhat by toeing in the monitors a bit more than the H-frames. The Auralex Gammas the H-frames are sitting on also helped in detail. (No W, so no WAF to worry about.) The other piece I found was that lowering the monitor helped the focus in the lower mids. Might need to do some more simulation here, mostly just worked by ear. Also, just got a pair of Alpair 7's to try on the top side.
The detail in the bass, where you hear every note where it should be with no boominess, and the staging way down is just stunning. The new K2 CD of We Get Requests by Oscar Peterson is great. The bass, drums and piano all stay right where they belong and every note from Ray Brown is detailed and musical.
Craig, please post your comments on the diff between Goldwood and Alpha's... i hope the Alpha's produce the results you desire. People have commented they are lighter in bass than the larger Goldwoods. Hopefully it's just different levels of excellent. I think it's easy to become addicted to H-frame bass... my sealed powered sub 'sucks' compared to two H-frames.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/speakers-tweeter-woofer-bib.htm
Henry, i may be wrong but i believe 25 watts will not be enough to power the H-frames sufficiently.
Godzilla
http://www.zillaaudio.com/speakers-tweeter-woofer-bib.htm
Henry, i may be wrong but i believe 25 watts will not be enough to power the H-frames sufficiently.
Godzilla
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Thanks Godzilla and Craig,
Craig, your idea of placing the mini monitors on top of the H frame is very similar to what I am intending to do, except that my Jimmy Griffin MLTL's are are taller. I will definitely wait for you to finish your new H frames for the Alphas to see how they compare with the Goldwoods H frames.
Excuse my ignorance (I am new to this and know little theory), but I have a question. If the Goldwoods are a bit too loud, wouldn't it be easier to put a volume pot (or an L-pad) for the woofers, rather than switching to the Alphas because they produce less bass. This way I believe you do not sacrifice the wider frequency range produced by the bigger Goldwoods.
Thanks
Antonio
Craig, your idea of placing the mini monitors on top of the H frame is very similar to what I am intending to do, except that my Jimmy Griffin MLTL's are are taller. I will definitely wait for you to finish your new H frames for the Alphas to see how they compare with the Goldwoods H frames.
Excuse my ignorance (I am new to this and know little theory), but I have a question. If the Goldwoods are a bit too loud, wouldn't it be easier to put a volume pot (or an L-pad) for the woofers, rather than switching to the Alphas because they produce less bass. This way I believe you do not sacrifice the wider frequency range produced by the bigger Goldwoods.
Thanks
Antonio
An L-pad adds series resistance which will change the Qts of the woofer. I can't recall which forum this came up in previously (about 2 years ago) but I e-mailed Martin King directly to ask how to model this in his worksheets. He took a look at it and indicated that while it does affect the Qts, it didn't have much effect on an OB specifically. I'm not at my home PC now so I can't try it out for an H-frame but suspect it would be similar (ie. little effect).
Note that the Goldwood will be less sensitive (not as loud) than the Alpha but goes deeper. I think this is what Godzilla meant when he wrote that the Alpha is "lighter" in the bass.
I have Alphas in an H-frame and love them. Very natural bass but not as much "slam" as the PSB sub that I had. Highly recommended!
Note that the Goldwood will be less sensitive (not as loud) than the Alpha but goes deeper. I think this is what Godzilla meant when he wrote that the Alpha is "lighter" in the bass.
I have Alphas in an H-frame and love them. Very natural bass but not as much "slam" as the PSB sub that I had. Highly recommended!
Antonio, the alpha's H-Frame is wonderful. Check out my implementation Post 157 of this thread.
A suggestion, build the H-Frames and power them as a subwoofers letting your MLTL go full range. You should be able to get away with one plate amp for both H-frames. This would be relatively low cost implementation. I believe that MCM electronics offers a number of amps that may be suitable.
You may want to put the MLTL to side of the H-frames, if the MLTL on top is too high.
FWIW, I am using one 70 Watt Parts Express amp per side which easily drive the H-Frames. However, the small amps have a slight hum which drives me crazy. I am considering replacing them with the 200 watt amps available from MCM.
Good luck,
Bill
A suggestion, build the H-Frames and power them as a subwoofers letting your MLTL go full range. You should be able to get away with one plate amp for both H-frames. This would be relatively low cost implementation. I believe that MCM electronics offers a number of amps that may be suitable.
You may want to put the MLTL to side of the H-frames, if the MLTL on top is too high.
FWIW, I am using one 70 Watt Parts Express amp per side which easily drive the H-Frames. However, the small amps have a slight hum which drives me crazy. I am considering replacing them with the 200 watt amps available from MCM.
Good luck,
Bill
I do not understand why 200 watts are needed to drive the efficient woofers.
Has it got to do with headroom? People here have reported success with the
F5. In fact, "the one and only" once said he's driven his OB woofers with 5 watts.
Has it got to do with headroom? People here have reported success with the
F5. In fact, "the one and only" once said he's driven his OB woofers with 5 watts.
"Note that the Goldwood will be less sensitive (not as loud) than the Alpha but goes deeper. I think this is what Godzilla meant when he wrote that the Alpha is "lighter" in the bass."
I thought in MJK's tests he measured both the goldwood 18 and the alpha 15, and they had practically the same sensitivity at 1w/1m (about 94 db) give or take. The goldwood has the bigger motor, and lower fs which you mentioned, basically. See pg 3 of the jordan/goldwood write up.
I thought in MJK's tests he measured both the goldwood 18 and the alpha 15, and they had practically the same sensitivity at 1w/1m (about 94 db) give or take. The goldwood has the bigger motor, and lower fs which you mentioned, basically. See pg 3 of the jordan/goldwood write up.
Martin,
I finally have my Alpair 12 and Goldwood 1585 running with the active crossover and set at 80hz for the moment. It has been playing for couple hours now. The first impression is 'Really Good' and I was almost blown to the back wall with the H frame connected. The Alpair is opening up now and the sounds are quite promising with warm and smooth tone, and without the 'Honky' sounds which I normally found on my Fostex drivers. Would give detail report after 300 hours.
Albert
I finally have my Alpair 12 and Goldwood 1585 running with the active crossover and set at 80hz for the moment. It has been playing for couple hours now. The first impression is 'Really Good' and I was almost blown to the back wall with the H frame connected. The Alpair is opening up now and the sounds are quite promising with warm and smooth tone, and without the 'Honky' sounds which I normally found on my Fostex drivers. Would give detail report after 300 hours.
Albert
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wow, nice setup Albert.
How did u get the alpair 12?
i didnt see it on their website yet.
cheers
How did u get the alpair 12?
i didnt see it on their website yet.
cheers
Are those Fe168esigmas in BIB cabinets? How do they compare to the Alpair/Goldwood combination? They look great, by the way!🙂
It isn't that you need 200 watts, it's that the better plate amp has less hum (hopefully.) I tried driving the Alpha 15a's on my passive OB's with the PE 70 watt plate amp and ran into the same issue with hum.
ALSO NOTE: the PE 70 watt plate amp recommended for the PE subwoofer project Triska sub has 2nd order XO. This is the reason I tried to use it with the OB's, as I needed a 2nd order XO. The PE 200 watt plate amp I use in another system has 4th order XO. I could not get the Triska sub to blend properly with any of my speakers, as the XO on that plate amp did not cut off the sub soon enough! The larger plate amp with 4th order XO blends just fine with my several systems.
Cheers, Jim
168 sigma is nice, but it's apple to orange and how can you compare with that.
This is the item I consider to sell. Give me an offer if you want it.
>>> I was almost blown to the back wall with the H frame connected.
Your room looks great Albert! My room has similar stuff in it. Although mines more of a 'man cave' than a nicely finished room. I think Albert's room is a great indication of how far we've come as a community of DIYers... we've come a long way from a Radio Shack 1354 in a ported box. Our attempts to get bass from full range drivers resulted in, among other things, BIBs (amazingly simple back horns imo). This allowed us to keep just one driver and expand it's capability. The idea of helper woofers and tweeters supplementing the extremes has brought us, among other things, the H-frame (thanks MJK!) which does in fact have the ability to blow you "to the back wall." My kids have RUN from the room on loud passages of music. These need to be tamed! But once dialed in, they are addictive. Large woofers just produce better bass. Combining amazing full range drivers from Fostex, Alpair, Jordan and many others with helper bass systems like H-frames retains the full range magic and adds incredible bass extension. Also, refinements in full range driver technology is allowing us to hear deficiencies in older (but still excellent) designs. Like Albert pointed out, his venerable Fostex drivers sound honky compared to the Alpair's... this is a personal preference others may not agree with. Regardless, pursuing the DIY path has grown the community and so we are all benefiting from higher performance systems. Albert's system must sound freaking great and all of us know how to build something similar that suits our musical taste and budgets. Thanks for posting an inspiring picture and for building some of the stuff discussed on the forums.
Godzilla
Your room looks great Albert! My room has similar stuff in it. Although mines more of a 'man cave' than a nicely finished room. I think Albert's room is a great indication of how far we've come as a community of DIYers... we've come a long way from a Radio Shack 1354 in a ported box. Our attempts to get bass from full range drivers resulted in, among other things, BIBs (amazingly simple back horns imo). This allowed us to keep just one driver and expand it's capability. The idea of helper woofers and tweeters supplementing the extremes has brought us, among other things, the H-frame (thanks MJK!) which does in fact have the ability to blow you "to the back wall." My kids have RUN from the room on loud passages of music. These need to be tamed! But once dialed in, they are addictive. Large woofers just produce better bass. Combining amazing full range drivers from Fostex, Alpair, Jordan and many others with helper bass systems like H-frames retains the full range magic and adds incredible bass extension. Also, refinements in full range driver technology is allowing us to hear deficiencies in older (but still excellent) designs. Like Albert pointed out, his venerable Fostex drivers sound honky compared to the Alpair's... this is a personal preference others may not agree with. Regardless, pursuing the DIY path has grown the community and so we are all benefiting from higher performance systems. Albert's system must sound freaking great and all of us know how to build something similar that suits our musical taste and budgets. Thanks for posting an inspiring picture and for building some of the stuff discussed on the forums.
Godzilla
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